santacruz skier
Angel Diva
Yep.
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Mount Point Issues?
- Thread starter SquidWeaselYay
- Start date
contesstant
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Just be extra cautious as your DIN settings/release will be messed up. I’ve been told to use a credit card or similar instead of tape because it’s still slick.
NewEnglandSkier
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
re: Squires and the hard to click into issue . . . .I was under the impression that they solved that issue--at least on the new Squire 12s by using the TCX heel (which I believe is what they have used on the demo bindings for at least the last few years). The demos with that particular heel were a dream to click into--no stomping and it was so smooth.
That's the reason I put the Wardens on my skis--I didn't want the old Squires (this was 2 years ago). I was not aware that I'd notice a different delta at the time. But after mounting those skis I noticed that of all my skis, it's the ones with either a slight negative delta or a relatively flat delta that I feel the most balanced on----but of course that could al change with a different pair of boots. Why does this have to be so difficult?
@SquidWeaselYay interested to hear what you find if you play with the delta using tape or a card!
That's the reason I put the Wardens on my skis--I didn't want the old Squires (this was 2 years ago). I was not aware that I'd notice a different delta at the time. But after mounting those skis I noticed that of all my skis, it's the ones with either a slight negative delta or a relatively flat delta that I feel the most balanced on----but of course that could al change with a different pair of boots. Why does this have to be so difficult?
@SquidWeaselYay interested to hear what you find if you play with the delta using tape or a card!
scandium
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Yup, like I felt every time I tried to apply forward pressure the tips got caught, or I would think I'd lifted them for a small uphill and they'd still catch. Given that the BP78s have tip rocker I don't think it was the skis...
liquidfeet
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
This exact sensation can be caused by a bad tune with the structure done wrong. Personal experience speaking. I thought it was me at first, then I thought it was the bindings. I bought new bindings and took the skis to a pro to install. He showed me why the skis wouldn't turn, and it was obvious once he explained. It was the structure, and only the structure. But I had bought the bindings so I had them put on anyway. Those skis have served as my daily drivers for three years, and are now finally dead. Not enough P-tex left to do a full tune including a stone grind left. I've saying a sad goodbye to them.
scandium
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I did wonder about that, but my mother was just fine on them (but struggled to click into the bindings). That being said, I have Attack 11s on my Kenjas and I don't seem to have any issues with the binding delta on those. So who knows - those skis have left our shared quiver now anyway.
liquidfeet
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Ski gear adjustments are complex and finicky. If all the parts are not adjusted just right for the anatomy of the skier, then the skiing can be impacted big time. There is no user's manual for how to adjust binding delta, boot fit and forward lean, footbeds, binding mount point, structure, edge bevels, ski specs, and what else ... oh, stand height ... all relative to a particular person's anatomy and the skis they are on, their preferred terrain, and their skiing level.
There can't be. Too many moving parts.
There can't be. Too many moving parts.
SquidWeaselYay
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I finally had my boots softened last night at Killington Surefoot. I felt like I could get forward better on the Nelas this morning, and had a little more success, but overall I still feel like I’m struggling to control them. Im almost afraid the boots might be a little TOO soft now, but maybe I just have to get used to the difference. And my calves are hurting like hell! I didn’t get a tune yet, I feel like the most likely culprit is me being on gear that is too advanced for me.
So many issues, so many mysteries, so many variables to consider. Anybody else
So many issues, so many mysteries, so many variables to consider. Anybody else
AJM
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Have you had the tune checked? I had a hell of a time on my new BP 88's at the begining of last season (they literally tried to kill me .... TWICE!) until I had them de - tuned then they behaved x
SquidWeaselYay
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
contesstant
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I skied my Nelas again yesterday with the new boots and had zero issues. In fact, they felt better than ever. My husband did tune them the night before at the shop which didn't hurt (this low snow year has just destroyed my edges and bases--the edges get touched up during the season, but it was time to grind the bases.)
I still say get them tuned @SquidWeaselYay I do not think they are too advanced for you. A ski with an off tune can make you feel like you can't ski. I know from personal experience, including with this pair of Nelas. First few days on them I kept saying, "something's not right." Husband tuned them and all was well.
I still say get them tuned @SquidWeaselYay I do not think they are too advanced for you. A ski with an off tune can make you feel like you can't ski. I know from personal experience, including with this pair of Nelas. First few days on them I kept saying, "something's not right." Husband tuned them and all was well.
SquidWeaselYay
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I took the wisdom of you and all the other seasoned pros here and got a tune last night, but we woke up to frozen water lines in our camper van and 9 degrees at Killington
I really wanted to try to get out there to test it with the new tune today, but my Raynaud’s wasn’t having any of that talk - it got triggered just taking my skis to the van from the shop.
We are heading back to PA, if the weather is warmer in NY we might take some turns at Windham or another resort along the way.
Argh, so close to finding out if it was just the tune!!! The shop guy who I spoke to when I dropped them off ran his fingernail over the shovel tip and was like “oh yeah, this is shaving my nail off, this isn’t the optimal tune. We’ll fix you up.” So at least I know that the factory tune wasn’t ideal at the very least.
Side note: they did feel a little “softer” at the end of the day yesterday. I think breaking them in might be part of it.
marzNC
Angel Diva
Windham was in pretty good shape when I stopped by last Thursday. I found I liked the layout better than Hunter.
Is Montage on your way home? Had a very good time there last Saturday.
SquidWeaselYay
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
That’s good to know, thanks! I didn’t care for the layout at Hunter very much when I went two years ago. Especially that long, winding side run that seems to just always be littered with yard sales at the worst places
I don’t think Montage is on our passes, but I’ll have to check. We have the Epic Local and Ikon passes. Not opposed to other resorts if the ticket price isn’t $$$.
Unfortunately we hit hella traffic on our way home and didn’t have time to stop. I don’t know what got into people on a Monday afternoon, but people were driving like they had no sense.
SquidWeaselYay
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Okay, I was doing some research on bindings, and came across these charts from PhilPug on SkiTalk about the stats on 2022 bindings;
Salomon/Atomic bindings:
https://www.skitalk.com/threads/2022-salomon-armada-atomic-bindings.24336/
Marker Bindings:
www.skitalk.com
Looking at the charts of the toe height vs heel height, it looks like the Squire Demos have a bit of a negative delta, but the regular Squires have a lower toe than heel. Compared to the Warden 11s, they seem to have a very similar difference in toe vs heel height.
I've read that Squires have negative delta, but that Wardens are positive. Looking at these measurements, it seems that only the Demo Squires are negative. Is it correct that the delta is toe height vs heel height? Negative delta = toe higher than heel, and positive delta = heel higher than toe? Am I missing something? Forgive my ignorance, I'm trying to learn. I've combed through the threads on here and PugSki and SkiTalk trying to figure out how this works. If somebody could explain it to me like you would explain it to a 5 year old, I'd be much obliged.
Salomon/Atomic bindings:
https://www.skitalk.com/threads/2022-salomon-armada-atomic-bindings.24336/
Marker Bindings:
Comparison Review - 2022 Marker Bindings
MODEL TOE HEIGHT (mm) HEEL HEIGHT (mm) SETTING RANGE WEIGHT (g/pr) STANDARD BRAKE SIZES (mm) OPTIONAL BRAKE SIZES (mm) SOLE COMPATIBILITY 10.0 TP 19 24 3-10 1518 85, 100 DIN, GripWalk X-Comp 12 GW 15 18 4-12 2368 75 90 DIN, GripWalk X-Comp 16 GW 15 18 6-16 2398 75 90 DIN, GripWalk...
www.skitalk.com
Looking at the charts of the toe height vs heel height, it looks like the Squire Demos have a bit of a negative delta, but the regular Squires have a lower toe than heel. Compared to the Warden 11s, they seem to have a very similar difference in toe vs heel height.
I've read that Squires have negative delta, but that Wardens are positive. Looking at these measurements, it seems that only the Demo Squires are negative. Is it correct that the delta is toe height vs heel height? Negative delta = toe higher than heel, and positive delta = heel higher than toe? Am I missing something? Forgive my ignorance, I'm trying to learn. I've combed through the threads on here and PugSki and SkiTalk trying to figure out how this works. If somebody could explain it to me like you would explain it to a 5 year old, I'd be much obliged.
SquidWeaselYay
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Update: I emailed Big Sky Demo center asking if they install their demo bindings at the manufacturer recommended mount point. They got back to me saying that they do mount them at the recommended mount point.
So that leaves me with binding differences, tune, or break in as the potential culprits. Going to try to get out this week to see how that new tune is. After reading about the demo squires having negative delta though (and I mounted Warden 11s), I'm thinking whoever voted for the bindings being the issue is at least partially correct here. 5mm difference in the delta seems like a lot.
So that leaves me with binding differences, tune, or break in as the potential culprits. Going to try to get out this week to see how that new tune is. After reading about the demo squires having negative delta though (and I mounted Warden 11s), I'm thinking whoever voted for the bindings being the issue is at least partially correct here. 5mm difference in the delta seems like a lot.
I know personally I'm a mess on skis with a binding that has a significant difference in ramp angle. I know some people can jump from one thing to another and adjust easily. To me it always made a big difference and on alpine skis, (before switching to telemark) religiously stuck to the same manufacturer and style of bindings.
MissySki
Angel Diva
I don't have enough experience with demo bindings.. but does that definitely mean that every size boot ends up at the recommended spot on the ski exactly? And I'm asking that because obviously a very small difference in where you are can make a huge difference with how a ski skis.
SquidWeaselYay
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I have demo squires on my old Santa Anas. I'm going to test this theory the best I can by seeing how my boot's mid point matches up to the mount point on the ski. I'll report back.
