Mount Point Issues?

[HikenSki]

I’ve definitely had a bad factory tune before. OMG I felt like I could not ski. It was horrible. Took them to the shop and had them grind the bases and tune the edges. World of a difference afterwards. If you get a good tune and they still ski funky, I’m going with the bindings being so different. Smaller feet are going to feel that difference (steeper ramp angle) between toe and heel height much more than some one with a 27.5 boot like myself. Highly recommended for low height and delta and weight is the Tyroloa Attack 12. The 11s have a higher angle but get good reviews. I’m not a fan of the Marker bindings, they are just too heavy for my liking.

 

[SquidWeaselYay]

@SquidWeaselYay What are your size stats? Also, I am interested in learning why you demoed the 96 Nela and what you loved about them. Kind of a hijack of original issue!!

I’m 5’1” and 115lbs. I tried the Nela 96 on a whim while in Big Sky. I liked the Sheeva 10, but not the tip flap. The demo guy suggested I try the 96, and I didn’t want to get off of it. I loved how responsive and playful it was on the trees, but I could carve with it a high speeds and feel completely stable on groomers. It felt so smooth and intuitive. I could go Mach schnell and shut it down instantly if needed.
Buuuuuut the ski I bought and skiied today? Omg….nope nope nope. Couldn’t find the sweet spot, struggled to stay balanced, ski felt too long….yuck.

 

[SquidWeaselYay]

I’ve definitely had a bad factory tune before. OMG I felt like I could not ski. It was horrible. Took them to the shop and had them grind the bases and tune the edges. World of a difference afterwards. If you get a good tune and they still ski funky, I’m going with the bindings being so different. Smaller feet are going to feel that difference (steeper ramp angle) between toe and heel height much more than some one with a 27.5 boot like myself. Highly recommended for low height and delta and weight is the Tyroloa Attack 12. The 11s have a higher angle but get good reviews. I’m not a fan of the Marker bindings, they are just too heavy for my liking.

I tried the attack 12’s a while back and didn’t like them, but I do have different boots now.

I thought the Stockli factory tune would be on point, but I’ll have to try getting a fresh one.

 

[contesstant]

I’m 5’1” and 115lbs. I tried the Nela 96 on a whim while in Big Sky. I liked the Sheeva 10, but not the tip flap. The demo guy suggested I try the 96, and I didn’t want to get off of it. I loved how responsive and playful it was on the trees, but I could carve with it a high speeds and feel completely stable on groomers. It felt so smooth and intuitive. I could go Mach schnell and shut it down instantly if needed.
Buuuuuut the ski I bought and skiied today? Omg….nope nope nope. Couldn’t find the sweet spot, struggled to stay balanced, ski felt too long….yuck.

That sounds like a ski that needs a tune.

 

[newboots]

Don't give up! Stockli makes great skis, and there are several options here. You know these skis are wonderful; you just have to find your way back there. Keep us informed - you have support here as well as really good technical information!

 

[mustski]

@SquidWeaselYay, it could be the tune on those new skis. Take them to a shop and have a stone grind and new base and edge bevels put on. Then ski them again.

My point is that it might not be the binding. New skis from the manufacturer often have horrid tunes. You'd think the exact opposite, but ....

Not Stockli. They are known for great manufacturer tunes. I’m not saying bad tunes NEVER happen, but it’s not the likely culprit with a Stockli.

I tried the attack 12’s a while back and didn’t like them, but I do have different boots now.

I thought the Stockli factory tune would be on point, but I’ll have to try getting a fresh one.

Talk to a good tech about possible binding delta. Often a simple shim/piece of duct tape can help you figure it out

 

[liquidfeet]

I thought the Stockli factory tune would be on point, but I’ll have to try getting a fresh one.

No. Get them tuned. Or at least have the tune checked by a reputable ski shop tech.
Don't wait.

 

[contesstant]

Not Stockli. They are known for great manufacturer tunes. I’m not saying bad tunes NEVER happen, but it’s not the likely culprit with a Stockli.

Talk to a good tech about possible binding delta. Often a simple shim/piece of duct tape can help you figure it out

Mine needed a tune. But I agree that a cheaper and easier option to experiment is to shim the toe with about 1mm thickness of duct tape to see if that helps the situation at all.

Another variable is different snow conditions, different mountain. She could also make some stance adjustments or take a lesson with an instructor who is great at movement analysis. Speaking from experience, gas pedaling my boots was a crutch for me that I needed because I wasn't skiing totally effectively.

Because she has other skis (that I'm assuming still feel fine) she might want to consider shimming the binding vs. the boot. I know how frustrating it can be to find the magic again in a pair of skis that you know you love.

 

[snoWYmonkey]

I highly doubt it is a skill issue. Was the snow different when you demoed from when you skied them at home? Wide skis on slightly firmer snow feel very different than on soft snow.

 

[SquidWeaselYay]

I am starting to wonder if my boots are part of the equation, even though I demoed in the same boots. I think they might be too stiff for me, even with the -20% bolt out. Or maybe the forward lean is too much. I’m in killington today, so I might go back to Surefoot (where I got them) and see what they think.

 

[mustski]

The boots may have issues of their own but, if you demoed with them and had a different experience, they are not the source of the problem with your new skis.

 

[SquidWeaselYay]

I highly doubt it is a skill issue. Was the snow different when you demoed from when you skied them at home? Wide skis on slightly firmer snow feel very different than on soft snow

Stratton got fresh snow, but underneath was a little firmer than in Montana. Montana had some ice this year, but not as bad as current east coast conditions.

 

[contesstant]

The boots may have issues of their own but, if you demoed with them and had a different experience, they are not the source of the problem with your new skis.

I agree. It's a binding issue unless she gets a tune and that fixes things.

@SquidWeaselYay I am going through this EXACT issue and am sorting things out. Only difference is I have new boots vs. new skis. However, same outcome: My beloved Nelas are perplexing me and I have about 50 days on them this season and have been loving them. Got into the new boots, which feel lightyears better laterally without the toe shims and with some minor canting changes, however, I suddenly feel like I can't get to the front of the Nelas. Yet I can edge them like I've never been able to. It's a fore/aft issue as is yours, I think. And a different binding delta can definitely mess with the fore/aft. Even more perplexing is that I was so balanced on my Santa Anas yesterday after struggling in them earlier this season. Same binding, different mount point. I am going to shim the toes temporarily tomorrow to see if I just need the binding shimmed on that ski (the Nela.) The Nelas do have what my husband refers to as a more "traditional" mount point (further back) which with small footed gals like us, can really change how a ski feels and performs. I'd much rather have to shim the binding than redrill and remount it (which is a crapshoot anyway--if it works, great, but if it doesn't, you have an unnecessary extra set of holes in your skis.)

Even funnier is that I demoed the Santa Anas last winter at Big Sky and loved them. They had Squire demos on them, so I bought a pair with regular Squires. Liked them, but man did my quads hurt. Got them home in powder, and I could NOT stay centered. So even the demo binding vs. non-demo screwed me up. I finally threw a pair of Wardens on them which with the new boots had me smiling big time yesterday! Even on the groomers, which I usually don't like on my 98s.

It seems the are so many variables, especially for those of us with small feet, that can throw our balance. That being said, sometimes it does take some adaptation to a new ski to figure it out. It shouldn't be THAT hard, though. You can only shift your weight so much before it's just a massive chore.

I'm taking the boots to my fitter tonight to have the cuff adjusted on one of them. I'll pick his brain. He's pretty adept at alignment issues. Sometimes it just takes experimenting because we're all different.

 

[SquidWeaselYay]

The boots may have issues of their own but, if you demoed with them and had a different experience, they are not the source of the problem in

I agree. It's a binding issue unless she gets a tune and that fixes things.

@SquidWeaselYay I am going through this EXACT issue and am sorting things out. Only difference is I have new boots vs. new skis. However, same outcome: My beloved Nelas are perplexing me and I have about 50 days on them this season and have been loving them. Got into the new boots, which feel lightyears better laterally without the toe shims and with some minor canting changes, however, I suddenly feel like I can't get to the front of the Nelas. Yet I can edge them like I've never been able to. It's a fore/aft issue as is yours, I think. And a different binding delta can definitely mess with the fore/aft. Even more perplexing is that I was so balanced on my Santa Anas yesterday after struggling in them earlier this season. Same binding, different mount point. I am going to shim the toes temporarily tomorrow to see if I just need the binding shimmed on that ski (the Nela.) The Nelas do have what my husband refers to as a more "traditional" mount point (further back) which with small footed gals like us, can really change how a ski feels and performs. I'd much rather have to shim the binding than redrill and remount it (which is a crapshoot anyway--if it works, great, but if it doesn't, you have an unnecessary extra set of holes in your skis.)

Even funnier is that I demoed the Santa Anas last winter at Big Sky and loved them. They had Squire demos on them, so I bought a pair with regular Squires. Liked them, but man did my quads hurt. Got them home in powder, and I could NOT stay centered. So even the demo binding vs. non-demo screwed me up. I finally threw a pair of Wardens on them which with the new boots had me smiling big time yesterday! Even on the groomers, which I usually don't like on my 98s.

It seems the are so many variables, especially for those of us with small feet, that can throw our balance. That being said, sometimes it does take some adaptation to a new ski to figure it out. It shouldn't be THAT hard, though. You can only shift your weight so much before it's just a massive chore.

I'm taking the boots to my fitter tonight to have the cuff adjusted on one of them. I'll pick his brain. He's pretty adept at alignment issues. Sometimes it just takes experimenting because we're all different.

That is exactly what went through my head! That if it ends up that I am constantly fighting hard just to be in control on them, I can only shift my weight so much and I don’t want to spend all day just fighting for control to the point where there is no fun to be had. I feel like I physically CAN’T get forward enough to get them to respond.

That is interesting with the Santa Ana’s. I got the 93s last year. Loved the demo on the squires, had them mounted with regular squires, now they are hard to stay on the sweet spot.

I am going to throw some duct tape on the toe of the Wardens, see if that helps. I got the wardens because I let people talk me out of Squires, saying that the wardens are better for wider skis.

 

[NewEnglandSkier]

That is interesting with the Santa Ana’s. I got the 93s last year. Loved the demo on the squires, had them mounted with regular squires, now they are hard to stay on the sweet spot.

Even funnier is that I demoed the Santa Anas last winter at Big Sky and loved them. They had Squire demos on them, so I bought a pair with regular Squires. Liked them, but man did my quads hurt. Got them home in powder, and I could NOT stay centered. So even the demo binding vs. non-demo screwed me up.

Interesting that you both had this experience with demoing with Squires and still had issues after purchasing with Squires. Hmmmm, now this is making me re-think swapping the bindings on the skis I'm having issues with . . . .

 

[MissySki]

The demo Squires and regular Squires are quite different though, aren’t they? I thought the ramp angles are different and then there is always the height of a demo binding versus regular. I think the height might also make a difference for me by a taller demo binding providing more leverage potential. Haven’t really tested that out fully though. Maybe we should all just start mounting the demo Squires on our skis?? I mean, is there a downside besides some extra weight? I don’t even usually notice that when demoing, so unsure if it’s a substantial difference or not.

 

[santacruz skier]

The demo Squires and regular Squires are quite different though, aren’t they? I thought the ramp angles are different and then there is always the height of a demo binding versus regular. I think the height might also make a difference for me by a taller demo binding providing more leverage potential. Haven’t really tested that out fully though. Maybe we should all just start mounting the demo Squires on our skis?? I mean, is there a downside besides some extra weight? I don’t even usually notice that when demoing, so unsure if it’s a substantial difference or not.

I replaced demo squires with new squires on my Blizzard Sambas and saved 6 pounds in weight. For me, it's the carrying weight I don't like...

 

[scandium]

The demo Squires and regular Squires are quite different though, aren’t they? I thought the ramp angles are different and then there is always the height of a demo binding versus regular. I think the height might also make a difference for me by a taller demo binding providing more leverage potential. Haven’t really tested that out fully though. Maybe we should all just start mounting the demo Squires on our skis?? I mean, is there a downside besides some extra weight? I don’t even usually notice that when demoing, so unsure if it’s a substantial difference or not.

I love demo squires but hated the regular ones. I can't say that it was the binding delta definitely, but we clearly had a pair that were affected by the "hard to click into" issue (on 2019 BP78s) and retrospectively I think I found I often got the tips caught when I skiied them (weird for someone who is often a backseat skiier). Not worth it!

 

[MissySki]

I replaced demo squires with new squires on my Blizzard Sambas and saved 6 pounds in weight. For me, it's the carrying weight I don't like...

Wow, really that much?!?!?

 

[MissySki]

I love demo squires but hated the regular ones. I can't say that it was the binding delta definitely, but we clearly had a pair that were affected by the "hard to click into" issue (on 2019 BP78s) and retrospectively I think I found I often got the tips caught when I skiied them (weird for someone who is often a backseat skiier). Not worth it!

Tips caught like diving into the snow, or?