Mount Point Issues?

[SquidWeaselYay]

Hey everyone. I demo’ed and fell in love with Stockli Nela 96 skis in a 156. Im 5’1, and 115lbs. I have a BSL of 273 in a 23.5 boot
I was taking them all over the place in Big Sky, and felt very in control and confident, like they would do whatever I wanted.

Got my own set, had them mounted at the recommended mount point, and I felt like I had NO CONTROL today. I couldn’t engage the tips no matter how far forward I got, and felt like I couldn’t find the sweet spot at all. The tips felt wild, and I felt like no matter how far forward I got, I was still “skiing the tails.” My husband took a video of me being super cautious and commented that it looked like I was skidding a lot.

I seem to have this issue whenever I get my own set of skis - they never feel as good as when I demo them! It’s so frustrating! I’m wondering if I need to have the mount point moved up, but I don’t even know how much farther forward to go. I’m lost here, and I’m so dissapointed. This is such a confidence killer. I was tackling all kinds of gnarly runs on the demos, and today I felt like a sloppy beginner.

Im going to see if I can upload a video my husband took. How do I even begin to figure out how far forward to get a remount done?

 

[badger]

It may have a lot to do with the demo bindings vs whatever you put onto your new skis. Or the out -of- the wrapper conditions of the new skis. Check the base and edges. Not likely that Stoclkli would be in the category of factory hustle and bustle, wrap and ship, so it's more likely the binding differences.
I have been curious about the 96 Nela too. Glad you loved them. I have the 80 and they are great.

 

[MissySki]

I feel your pain, this is the exact issue I am having with my new Santa Anas…. Haven’t been able to get out and try anything on them yet unfortunately, life got in the way etc. I definitely am focusing on mounting point and tune to start though, whenever that ends up being.

Eager to see how you troubleshoot and hopefully get some good tips along the way.

 

[SquidWeaselYay]

It may have a lot to do with the demo bindings vs whatever you put onto your new skis. Or the out -of- the wrapper conditions of the new skis. Check the base and edges. Not likely that Stoclkli would be in the category of factory hustle and bustle, wrap and ship, so it's more likely the binding differences.
I have been curious about the 96 Nela too. Glad you loved them. I have the 80 and they are great.

Ugh. If that is the case, then I’m going to have to resell these. I felt completely out of control on them, and no matter how far forward I got, I could NOT engage the tips the way I could on the demos. Maybe I just need to buy old demo skis from now on, problem solved!
Yeah, the 96 Nela was aaaaaaamazing when I demo’d them. So floaty and playful, but could carve like crazy too.

 

[shadoj]

Agree with @badger - what model of demo bindings do you have, and what are the new ones? They might have a slighty different ramp/delta angle, which can affect the way they handle.

 

[SquidWeaselYay]

I feel your pain, this is the exact issue I am having with my new Santa Anas…. Haven’t been able to get out and try anything on them yet unfortunately, life got in the way etc. I definitely am focusing on mounting point and tune to start though, whenever that ends up being.

Eager to see how you troubleshoot and hopefully get some good tips along the way.

I had the same issue with my Santa Ana’s last year, but not as dramatic as this. I am considering saying to hell with it all, and having them both moved forward a cm to see if that does it. If not, I’m just gonna buy old demo skis with demo bindings from now on so I don’t keep having this issue. Sucks to fall in love with something, then it ends up being a train wreck.

 

[SquidWeaselYay]

Agree with @badger - what model of demo bindings do you have, and what are the new ones? They might have a slighty different ramp/delta angle, which can affect the way they handle.

I demo’d in squires, and got Warden 11s on my own.

 

[MissySki]

I had the same issue with my Santa Ana’s last year, but not as dramatic as this. I am considering saying to hell with it all, and having them both moved forward a cm to see if that does it. If not, I’m just gonna buy old demo skis with demo bindings from now on so I don’t keep having this issue. Sucks to fall in love with something, then it ends up being a train wreck.

Or try to buy the exact demo you tried lol.. I’m there with you.

 

[Kimmyt]

Did you contact the reps that you demoed from? They can tell you what the mount point of the specific ski you demoed was, give you info on the binding and any tuning specific stuff that might have led to your different feelings. Did you get them retuned after purchasing or are you skiing the factory tune? I had previously skied factory tune when I bought new skis but my shop talked me into retuning to make sure bases were flat and everything was in good condition. I ended doing it and they skied like a dream, not sure if it was necessary but it certainly didn't hurt, so thats something you could consider doing before going so far as to move the bindings

 

[NewEnglandSkier]

I've had similar sort of experience ie. having an amazing experience on demos and then buying a pair and feeling like something is off. Had this experience with my Sheeva 9s. Loooved the demo but when I got my own pair, they just feel like a lot of work and I feel like I have to play catch up and work to stay out of the back seat on them. For me, I think I've determined that it's the binding ramp angle that is causing my issues.
I too demoed with Squires and got Warden 11 bindings on my own set. I've decided to pull the bindings and replace with Squires as I believe I've read that Squires are flatter/more neutral than the Wardens.
Anyway, your issue with what you're feeling is a bit different, but the fact of Squire vs Warden 11 stood out to me.

 

[mustski]

I steered clear of the Warden bindings. My husband did too. The local ski shop agreed we'd be better off with the Tyrolia Attack bindings. I have the 12s and my husband has the 13s. The 11 have a considerable delta btwn heel and toe and felt cheap in construction, so I avoided them. I've heard good things about the Salomon Warden, just so not have experience with them otherthan demo

This quote is from this thread: https://www.theskidiva.com/forums/index.php?threads/bindings-advice.25361/
Your problem is the delta on the Warden 11s. The squires have a negative delta angle so they are VASTLY different bindings. There are some solutions -shims, gas pedals, but moving the binding forward will not help at all. It is probably particularly noticeable since you have a small boot Size. @contesstant has some experience with delta sensitivity and may know the solution.

 

[liquidfeet]

@SquidWeaselYay, it could be the tune on those new skis. Take them to a shop and have a stone grind and new base and edge bevels put on. Then ski them again.

My point is that it might not be the binding. New skis from the manufacturer often have horrid tunes. You'd think the exact opposite, but ....

 

[contesstant]

I have had quite the experiment with boots and bindings this week. I’m in new boots—same as I’ve been in but I needed to start from scratch and get rid of the gas pedals on my old pair. Can’t get forward on my Nela 88s but am working on it. Had a BLAST today on my Santa Ana 98s that I struggled on at times last year. Both are mounted with Warden 11s.

So I went from loving my Nelas and being OK with Santa Ana’s and to the opposite. All from a boot change, which was just taking the gas pedal off.

The Nelas have a mount point that is further back and I’m sure that’s the difference. I’m not sure what I’m going to do yet. Maybe gas pedal just those bindings.

 

[badger]

@SquidWeaselYay What are your size stats? Also, I am interested in learning why you demoed the 96 Nela and what you loved about them. Kind of a hijack of original issue!!

 

[newboots]

@SquidWeaselYay - don't despair! I think you should do as advised here. Take them to the shop and (1) Have the technician check the tune. Check the base with a true bar. It's not uncommon for something to be off on a new ski. (2) Discuss the binding issue with someone at the shop who is VERY KNOWLEDGEABLE. If the ramp angle is dramatically different, as @mustski describes, find out what can be done. Those Wardens are completely resellable if you need to change bindings. (3) Find out where the demo bindings put you on the ski, to see if remounting would be the solution.

Stay calm. You can figure this out. A whole community is here behind you!

 

[snoWYmonkey]

@contesstant I am surprised that the Nela mounting point is further back. Relative to the men's version, the stormrider, it is 1cm forward. I found it too far forward and kept struggling as I never really ski women's skis.

@SquidWeaselYay It could be the ramp angle of the binding. It could also be the weight of the demo binding, versus the much lighter ones you have on there now. It could also be that the rental has been broken in and the flex might be softer than your new boards. The tune was also mentioned. So so many factors. I have had some shops where they measure the center point and use that instead of the recommended. I wonder where the center point was on the demo pair? True center or Stockli recommended?

 

[SquidWeaselYay]

Did you contact the reps that you demoed from? They can tell you what the mount point of the specific ski you demoed was, give you info on the binding and any tuning specific stuff that might have led to your different feelings. Did you get them retuned after purchasing or are you skiing the factory tune? I had previously skied factory tune when I bought new skis but my shop talked me into retuning to make sure bases were flat and everything was in good condition. I ended doing it and they skied like a dream, not sure if it was necessary but it certainly didn't hurt, so thats something you could consider doing before going so far as to move the bindings

I demoed at the Big Sky Demo Center. It’s a bunch of 20 something kids working in there, I doubt any of them have any clue about the binging mount point, unfortunately.
I didn’t get them tuned, cause I figured Stockli probably doesn’t skimp on that. But perhaps even they aren’t immune to bad factory tunes.

It did feel much more like a “sweet spot” issue than a tune, but I am too much an amateur to really tell the difference for sure. I felt like I was standing on the tails.

I’m starting to wonder if it is a combo of wrong bindings, being off center on the demos, and not having advanced enough skills for this ski.

 

[SquidWeaselYay]

This quote is from this thread: https://www.theskidiva.com/forums/index.php?threads/bindings-advice.25361/
Your problem is the delta on the Warden 11s. The squires have a negative delta angle so they are VASTLY different bindings. There are some solutions -shims, gas pedals, but moving the binding forward will not help at all. It is probably particularly noticeable since you have a small boot Size. @contesstant has some experience with delta sensitivity and may know the solution.

Thanks. Ugh. Crap. Leave it to me to mount the wrong bindings, possibly at the wrong spot for me, on super expensive skis. ‍

 

[SquidWeaselYay]

I have had quite the experiment with boots and bindings this week. I’m in new boots—same as I’ve been in but I needed to start from scratch and get rid of the gas pedals on my old pair. Can’t get forward on my Nela 88s but am working on it. Had a BLAST today on my Santa Ana 98s that I struggled on at times last year. Both are mounted with Warden 11s.

So I went from loving my Nelas and being OK with Santa Ana’s and to the opposite. All from a boot change, which was just taking the gas pedal off.

The Nelas have a mount point that is further back and I’m sure that’s the difference. I’m not sure what I’m going to do yet. Maybe gas pedal just those bindings.

I’m in a Lange ZJ with a foam liner, and while I love that my foot is finally in a boot where I’m not slamming around the inside, I do think it may be too stiff for me, or the forward lean might be too much.
That is great to hear that you are getting some of your boot issues worked out! I know you struggle with Hypermobility as well - boot issues are a challenge within a challenge.

 

[SquidWeaselYay]

@SquidWeaselYay - don't despair! I think you should do as advised here. Take them to the shop and (1) Have the technician check the tune. Check the base with a true bar. It's not uncommon for something to be off on a new ski. (2) Discuss the binding issue with someone at the shop who is VERY KNOWLEDGEABLE. If the ramp angle is dramatically different, as @mustski describes, find out what can be done. Those Wardens are completely resellable if you need to change bindings. (3) Find out where the demo bindings put you on the ski, to see if remounting would be the solution.

Stay calm. You can figure this out. A whole community is here behind you!

Thanks for the pep talk! Unfortunately, I demoed and purchased the skis in Montana, and I live in the east. I honestly loved them so much out there that I pulled the trigger on them after two days on them. Ugh, the regret is strong.