Abbi
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I wish I were still young enough to do that!
I was thinking exactly the same thing!
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Vermont travel restrictions
- Thread starter SnowSeeker
- Start date
I was thinking exactly the same thing!
newboots
Angel Diva
It’s the getting up early that wrecks it for me. I wouldn’t be able to ski all day.
Come to think of it, I can rarely ski all day anyway!
gingerjess
Angel Diva
It’s the getting up early that wrecks it for me. I wouldn’t be able to ski all day.
Come to think of it, I can rarely ski all day anyway!
I tried the ski bus from SF to Tahoe a couple times last winter—I was definitely worn out way before the end of the day both times (SF departure between 4:30 and 5:30, depending on resort, to arrive by the first lift). I can't imagine trying to drive myself both ways in a single day...
MissySki
Angel Diva
I am pretty insistent on getting out when lifts start spinning. If it’s a powder day then definitely!! Haha It is one thing that stinks about skiing weekends though, lifts open at 8 so I never get to sleep in during the season. I’m actually NOT a morning person at all, so it’s purely the anticipation that gets me out of bed.
I think it’s by sheer stubbornness that I can make it happen if necessary to drive back and forth so far in a day and ski all day in between. @lisamamot is the same way though! A couple of seasons ago we did a bunch of day trips like this together and took turns driving. I’m so lucky to have a diva with this similar tendency that lives within 20 mins. of me!
I think it’s by sheer stubbornness that I can make it happen if necessary to drive back and forth so far in a day and ski all day in between.
@lisamamot is the same way though! A couple of seasons ago we did a bunch of day trips like this together and took turns driving. I’m so lucky to have a diva with this similar tendency that lives within 20 mins. of me!
santacruz skier
Angel Diva
Did you go with REI ? Can't imagine that will happen this season but a great idea.
lisamamot
Angel Diva
They were long days, but so much fun! We had a couple amazing powder days in thereI think it’s by sheer stubbornness that I can make it happen if necessary to drive back and forth so far in a day and ski all day in between.
gingerjess
Angel Diva
Nah, NACSki.
MissySki
Angel Diva
They were long days, but so much fun! We had a couple amazing powder days in there
Yesssss so good!!
Abbi
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
You were occasionally trying for the first chair skiers! I believe more than once I was finishing as you were getting there!
Abbi
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I am pretty insistent on getting out when lifts start spinning. If it’s a powder day then definitely!! Haha It is one thing that stinks about skiing weekends though, lifts open at 8 so I never get to sleep in during the season. I’m actually NOT a morning person at all, so it’s purely the anticipation that gets me out of bed.
I think it’s by sheer stubbornness that I can make it happen if necessary to drive back and forth so far in a day and ski all day in between.
when I was still working and had to ski weekends, mostly, I used to get up at 4 AM and drive to ski. I would usually go for about four hours or so as steadily as possible. Sometimes longer almost never less. Then I would drive to the New Hampshire State liquor store on route 89 which also had a very accessible bathroom. I would take a nap in the car before I went in to make sure I did not sleep too long. Then I could make it home without falling asleep. I learned from my marketing guys that the best way to survive driving long hours was to stop and take a power nap. But those days are long gone and not missed either!
MissySki
Angel Diva
Nice, that’s commitment!! Agreed, I certainly prefer having a seasonal on mountain for now so I can just slide to and from the door.
newboots
Angel Diva
Your encouragement, as always, appreciated! Friends, Abbi has tirelessly encouraged my skiing, shared fun lunches on the mountain, and always hoped I could get to the mountain a bit earlier.
In my defense, I had a 15-minute longer drive to the base lodge than she did.
Mod note: I moved all the talk of bibs to a new thread: Ski Bibs: Yay or nay?
newboots
Angel Diva
That's good. I forgot what thread this was. The bathroom thread?
Vermont is out with 13 pages of COVID restrictions for ski resorts. The Lift Blog says they're the most extensive they've seen.
MissySki
Angel Diva
Eek the contact tracing part.. How does one collect all of this information for every person each day?? I really hope you can do it online with the attestation versus creating more contact points? I mean RFID resorts will know the info of whoever uses the resort, but then they need to say they followed restrictions too. Hopefully this can all be done ahead of arrival somehow.. Also, the part of listing which table people sat for indoors on top of their info.. glad I won't be using lodges this year. What a pain. I wonder if they need to collect the information of anyone who goes into a bathroom too.
SallyCat
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Bike parks have provided trial runs for some resorts. The one Vail-owned resort I visited this summer had an impressive safety set-up for lift rides. The only problem I saw was a breakdown in the consistency of enforcing mask rules. Visitors would occasionally try to flout the mask requirement in the lift line and at the top. I noticed that the lifties were actually being vigilant and consistent, but the middle-management/supervisor guys would jump in and make exceptions for some guests. Once you do that, it's game over; you've let your leadership and your most obnoxious guests undermine the whole system while everyone else watches. I hope they tighten up on that before ski season.
Contact tracing makes sense indoors, and it probably should discourage people from entering or lingering in lodges. I would think that a swipe card to enter certain zones would be easy enough for the big resorts. It's a bit of a hassle that makes it possible for us to enjoy lift service this season, and if we do it right, hopefully for the whole season.
Contact tracing makes sense indoors, and it probably should discourage people from entering or lingering in lodges. I would think that a swipe card to enter certain zones would be easy enough for the big resorts. It's a bit of a hassle that makes it possible for us to enjoy lift service this season, and if we do it right, hopefully for the whole season.
MissySki
Angel Diva
Here's Skiology Matt's take for anyone who does or doesn't follow Northeast Skiology on Facebook. I always find his take interesting and well thought out, which is not to say I always agree but I do always read it and find it often starts great conversation from both sides. 
VERMONT'S GOVERNOR DROPS THE HAMMER ON THE SKI INDUSTRY: Restrictions Will Come at a High Price
Vermont released their Ski Resort Operational Guidance today, and that document can be found here: https://bit.ly/3mRzoQO
This is by far the most restrictive in the entire industry outside of a full shut down of operations. The key points that representatives from the state highlighted today are as follows:
I'm going to discuss in detail the major issues, but to be clear, this is not a good outcome and I assure you the industry is taken back and quite worried about what has happened. Even many Vermonters who wish to make the ski season locals-only will not like the possible net results.
Some of This Was a Surprise for the Ski Industry
The Vermont Ski Areas Association has been working with the state for many months and have had a draft proposal for ski resort operations for many weeks. The tone from the state changed progressively in the last few weeks as infection rates within and outside of the state started ticking up. There are only 6 counties now marked as green on Vermont's map. On Sunday the new rules were finalized with new unexpected restrictions, most notably requirements similar to lodging in the state where resorts would be required to have every skier and rider attest to their compliance with travel restrictions.
Chair loading capacity also seems to have been reduced from spacing unlike parties by one person to allowing just 50% capacity on a lift with unlike parties, and other lift capacity restrictions.
The industry did have to fight to allow ski patrollers and other necessary staff to be allowed to come in from out of state, and they succeeded in achieving that concession. They are only required to try to minimize the reliance on necessary out of state staff.
How Will Travel Restrictions Be Enforced?
Ski resorts must now contact every single passholder and have them electronically agree that they are aware of the travel restrictions and will abide by them, or alternatively when passholders make reservations. Ticket purchasers will need to also check a box when purchasing a ticket online attesting to the same on each purchase. Those who sell window tickets may need to require a paper form as there may be too little time to create systems otherwise to handle this. Needless to say, the industry was not prepared for this, and there was no expectation until very recently that this would happen.
How will Lifts Be Loaded?
The guidance indicates that lifts will be loaded at 50% capacity or with like parties. Singles will need to load on double and triple chairs one per lift. Quads can hold two singles, or just two or more in a group. 6-packs can hold three singles, or a single with just two in a group, or 3 or more in a group. Gondolas can only hold one party at all times. Trams can hold multiple parties so long as they maintain 6 feet of distance between parties.
The 50% restriction is more than what is being used anywhere else in the world, and this is being done despite mask requirements and people being outdoors. This will further reduce overall capacity at ski resorts, probably by a factor of an additional 25% unless a resort wants to develop very long lines. Resorts with lifts larger than doubles who follow these guidelines will likely max out at about 50%-60% of normal peak season traffic instead of 75% as previously expected.
This Does Great Harm To Vermont's Ski Industry and Economy
Some ski resorts are now planning to trim back operations even more, and I assure you that contingency plans for shutdowns are being concerned. Snowmaking will likely be dialed back in some cases despite the fact that terrain expansion is necessary to open more lifts and maintain physical distancing. Less staff will be hired despite the fact that the increased restrictions will require more effort to maintain, and this also would put ski areas in a difficult situation if demand was excessive. Even projects for the next summer are now on the chopping block. Despite some indications of additional aid by the state, there is none of note available to them, and likely not enough in the best-case scenario.
Most notably though I have severe concerns about the ability for independent ski areas in the state to remain solvent, and I assure you that many are losing sleep about this right now. I'm mostly concerned about Jay Peak, Burke, Smugglers' Notch, Bolton Valley, Mad River Glen, Suicide Six, and Bromley. Many of these resorts receive the majority of their skier visits from out of state, and over 99.5% of the Northeast is restricted, and Canadians cannot drive over the border at all.
There Is No Ski Season in Vermont Unless Skiers and Riders Lie
If skiers and riders are actually expected to follow the travel guidelines, the industry cannot operate, and everyone in the industry as well as the Governor's administration knows this. The worst-case for Vermont's ski industry is for resorts to prepare for opening as they have for months, hire staff, make snow, spend lots of money on new systems and things like outdoor shelters, and then have the season canceled, forcing refunds of season passes. There's no bigger possible way to fail from that, and this would definitely bankrupt some independent resorts if that happened. Even if the ski season in Vermont happens, it could still bankrupt resorts given the restrictions.
There is in fact more demand for skiing and riding right now, and people are going to come regardless, only those who are the most aware and concerned for others will stay home, while those that are the least aware and unconcerned about others will come, and they will fill whatever capacity is available to them.
There is No Basis for Such Severe Restrictions
The state is clearly approaching this from the standpoint of safety, and many things are unobjectionable, but not allowing lifts to be loaded with just one seat empty between riders is in excess of social distancing protocols even indoors within the state. Lodging has been 100% open for about 6 weeks with no hint of that causing any infections, and the entire tourism season to date has not been associated with any known outbreaks either. The state knows that infections are primarily being passed between friends and family in private settings and not in businesses, especially in outdoor recreational activities. If anything, outdoor recreation has proven itself safe with just reasonable compliance of physical distancing and masking.
These rules however reinforce xenophobia and set up not just skiers and riders as well as ski resorts for being the bad guys. It's an awful position to put the industry in a place where they know the only way to stay open will be to have the vast majority of their customers lie about adhering to restrictions.
The best possible outcome at this stage is that nothing bad happens and Vermonters get used to people lying to come into their state because the only other possible outcome is the absolute worst, and that is shutting everything down after dumping tons of money into a failed season.
VERMONT'S GOVERNOR DROPS THE HAMMER ON THE SKI INDUSTRY: Restrictions Will Come at a High Price
Vermont released their Ski Resort Operational Guidance today, and that document can be found here: https://bit.ly/3mRzoQO
This is by far the most restrictive in the entire industry outside of a full shut down of operations. The key points that representatives from the state highlighted today are as follows:
- Requires all customers to attest to their compliance with travel restrictions.
- Ski areas must collect and maintain information for contact tracing.
- Reduce reliance on out of state staff.
- Lifts will load at 50% capacity except for like parties, gondolas limited to a single party, trams require 6 feet of distance between parties.
- Base lodges limited to 50% capacity and no more than 75 people.
- Ski resorts must offer lenient cancelation policies for sick and travel restricted customers.
I'm going to discuss in detail the major issues, but to be clear, this is not a good outcome and I assure you the industry is taken back and quite worried about what has happened. Even many Vermonters who wish to make the ski season locals-only will not like the possible net results.
Some of This Was a Surprise for the Ski Industry
The Vermont Ski Areas Association has been working with the state for many months and have had a draft proposal for ski resort operations for many weeks. The tone from the state changed progressively in the last few weeks as infection rates within and outside of the state started ticking up. There are only 6 counties now marked as green on Vermont's map. On Sunday the new rules were finalized with new unexpected restrictions, most notably requirements similar to lodging in the state where resorts would be required to have every skier and rider attest to their compliance with travel restrictions.
Chair loading capacity also seems to have been reduced from spacing unlike parties by one person to allowing just 50% capacity on a lift with unlike parties, and other lift capacity restrictions.
The industry did have to fight to allow ski patrollers and other necessary staff to be allowed to come in from out of state, and they succeeded in achieving that concession. They are only required to try to minimize the reliance on necessary out of state staff.
How Will Travel Restrictions Be Enforced?
Ski resorts must now contact every single passholder and have them electronically agree that they are aware of the travel restrictions and will abide by them, or alternatively when passholders make reservations. Ticket purchasers will need to also check a box when purchasing a ticket online attesting to the same on each purchase. Those who sell window tickets may need to require a paper form as there may be too little time to create systems otherwise to handle this. Needless to say, the industry was not prepared for this, and there was no expectation until very recently that this would happen.
How will Lifts Be Loaded?
The guidance indicates that lifts will be loaded at 50% capacity or with like parties. Singles will need to load on double and triple chairs one per lift. Quads can hold two singles, or just two or more in a group. 6-packs can hold three singles, or a single with just two in a group, or 3 or more in a group. Gondolas can only hold one party at all times. Trams can hold multiple parties so long as they maintain 6 feet of distance between parties.
The 50% restriction is more than what is being used anywhere else in the world, and this is being done despite mask requirements and people being outdoors. This will further reduce overall capacity at ski resorts, probably by a factor of an additional 25% unless a resort wants to develop very long lines. Resorts with lifts larger than doubles who follow these guidelines will likely max out at about 50%-60% of normal peak season traffic instead of 75% as previously expected.
This Does Great Harm To Vermont's Ski Industry and Economy
Some ski resorts are now planning to trim back operations even more, and I assure you that contingency plans for shutdowns are being concerned. Snowmaking will likely be dialed back in some cases despite the fact that terrain expansion is necessary to open more lifts and maintain physical distancing. Less staff will be hired despite the fact that the increased restrictions will require more effort to maintain, and this also would put ski areas in a difficult situation if demand was excessive. Even projects for the next summer are now on the chopping block. Despite some indications of additional aid by the state, there is none of note available to them, and likely not enough in the best-case scenario.
Most notably though I have severe concerns about the ability for independent ski areas in the state to remain solvent, and I assure you that many are losing sleep about this right now. I'm mostly concerned about Jay Peak, Burke, Smugglers' Notch, Bolton Valley, Mad River Glen, Suicide Six, and Bromley. Many of these resorts receive the majority of their skier visits from out of state, and over 99.5% of the Northeast is restricted, and Canadians cannot drive over the border at all.
There Is No Ski Season in Vermont Unless Skiers and Riders Lie
If skiers and riders are actually expected to follow the travel guidelines, the industry cannot operate, and everyone in the industry as well as the Governor's administration knows this. The worst-case for Vermont's ski industry is for resorts to prepare for opening as they have for months, hire staff, make snow, spend lots of money on new systems and things like outdoor shelters, and then have the season canceled, forcing refunds of season passes. There's no bigger possible way to fail from that, and this would definitely bankrupt some independent resorts if that happened. Even if the ski season in Vermont happens, it could still bankrupt resorts given the restrictions.
There is in fact more demand for skiing and riding right now, and people are going to come regardless, only those who are the most aware and concerned for others will stay home, while those that are the least aware and unconcerned about others will come, and they will fill whatever capacity is available to them.
There is No Basis for Such Severe Restrictions
The state is clearly approaching this from the standpoint of safety, and many things are unobjectionable, but not allowing lifts to be loaded with just one seat empty between riders is in excess of social distancing protocols even indoors within the state. Lodging has been 100% open for about 6 weeks with no hint of that causing any infections, and the entire tourism season to date has not been associated with any known outbreaks either. The state knows that infections are primarily being passed between friends and family in private settings and not in businesses, especially in outdoor recreational activities. If anything, outdoor recreation has proven itself safe with just reasonable compliance of physical distancing and masking.
These rules however reinforce xenophobia and set up not just skiers and riders as well as ski resorts for being the bad guys. It's an awful position to put the industry in a place where they know the only way to stay open will be to have the vast majority of their customers lie about adhering to restrictions.
The best possible outcome at this stage is that nothing bad happens and Vermonters get used to people lying to come into their state because the only other possible outcome is the absolute worst, and that is shutting everything down after dumping tons of money into a failed season.
Abbi
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
The pass scan will definitely be the first and foremost piece of information. For in studio Pilates classes we use the registration as our contact list. Plus the instructors who were there that day, of course.
All a work in progress as we try to sort things out and have fun but still stay safe.
