Ski Recommendations for lightweight skier

[Little Lightning]

Not sure about a smaller custom liner. How would the liner stay in place if it doesn't fill the volume of the shell? Best to find a shell that fits your foot and go from there.

 

[SMichael08]

Quick question: Do you have your own footbeds that you are using when you try each boot? Because a custom or at the very least decent aftermarket footbed will change the way every boot feels, including pulling your toes back from the end of the boot.

I don't. I had assumed that would just be part of the process of getting boots properly fitted, and it wasn't anything the shop suggested doing prior to getting boots.

 

[SMichael08]

Don't worry so much about flex. If a boot is too stiff while skiing it can be softened. Fit is the most important.

One way you can tell if a boot is a true 22.5 shell is to take the liner out and see if there is something in the toe box to make the shell smaller. I once had a pair of Rossignol women's boots that had 3 plastic bars in the toe box. Even though my other boots also had something to shorten the shell these were the only boots that caused me to get black toe on my big toe. Head was the first company to come out with a true size 22.5 shell with the Head Dream boot. Unfortunately it was a 102 last which was too wide for my foot. My boot fitter put a shim underneath the insole to help take up the volume. I don't remember if I was still using orthotics but I was easing myself out of shoe orthotics at that time so probably not.

For boots that are "true" 21.5 or 22.5 look at Outdoor Divas list of boots. Also, what year are the boots you're trying on? Older women's boots may not have been made on a true 22.5 last. Some newer boots still may not either. Last year when I was debating about the 95 flex my fitter suggested a Salomon model that was a 90 flex. She said, "we don't sell it though because it's not a true 22.5".

I have to be extremely careful with orthotics. My foot doesn't flatten and an orthotic will take up to much volume at the top of the boot.

If you do decide to try a 22.5 look at boots with a 98 mm last. That will put you at a 90mm width.

Thus far the 22.5 shell haven't had anything in the toes, but the shell is printed as being a 225 and the liners are 215. All of the boots are within a season or two of current.

I'm not really sure what's up with the top/height of my foot. When I shell test and try to get a finger in (mostly hard because of the angle and stiff plastic), it seems I've got almost a centimeter between the top of my foot and the shell, but definitely need to be careful of location of buckles and/or how tightly I buckle them or my feet will start to fall asleep (this was also an issue even if the 23.5 Nordicas I'd been using previously). So I'm not exactly sure what that balance of foot beds/liners/shell volume will need to look like in the end.

 

[SMichael08]

Not sure about a smaller custom liner. How would the liner stay in place if it doesn't fill the volume of the shell? Best to find a shell that fits your foot and go from there.

That's why I was sort of curious about some brands (e.g., Nordica) using a 22.5 shell with a 21.5 liner and calling it good. But I've also seen where some liners (primarily the Zipfits) offer a liner specifically to help take up more volume in the boot.

 

[Little Lightning]

That's why I was sort of curious about some brands (e.g., Nordica) using a 22.5 shell with a 21.5 liner and calling it good. But I've also seen where some liners (primarily the Zipfits) offer a liner specifically to help take up more volume in the boot.

I was told by my bootfitter that companies pad the toe of the shell in such a way as to shorten its length so the smaller liner fits. I always wondered why the Rossignols had those 3 plastic bars in the toe. That's how they get by with it. It's a cost saving feature to avoid making a 22.5 shell. Most people don't just don't know it. They don't do this in other sizes because there is more of a market for larger sizes. My liner is stamped 22.5. Stamped on the bottom of the shell is 220-225, 265 mm.

I also have trouble buckling boots over my instep. I remember boots that I didn't bother to buckle over the instep. Now, more boots designed on a women's last have more space in that area.

I have boney shins so if a boot is too high on my leg it will feel uncomfortable because the tongue presses more on those bones.

 

[contesstant]

I don't. I had assumed that would just be part of the process of getting boots properly fitted, and it wasn't anything the shop suggested doing prior to getting boots.

Do you have insoles (not the stock ones that come with boots) in your current boots? The fit with a proper insole is vastly different than without, and I don't know that you can properly assess any of the boots you try on without one in there. If you have a decent insole in your current boots, pull it out and use it when trying on each new boot. Make sure you pull the flimsy stock insole out first.

 

[SMichael08]

Do you have insoles (not the stock ones that come with boots) in your current boots? The fit with a proper insole is vastly different than without, and I don't know that you can properly assess any of the boots you try on without one in there. If you have a decent insole in your current boots, pull it out and use it when trying on each new boot. Make sure you pull the flimsy stock insole out first.

I don't. I've never used footbeds before. I can make an appointment at the shop to get custom footbeds done on their own (which I can then use for trying on). If I'm already assuming I may need custom liners, does it make sense to do the footbeds? Do folks often have both, or if you get custom liners does that negate the need for footbeds? I don't mind doing both, but I also don't want to waist money on the footbeds if I wouldn't be using them with a molded liner.

I called Outdoor Divas and got some good information, though it doesn't change things much. She confirmed I'm kind of on the right track, given my limited options. The Dalbello Chakras is one of their go-to's for those of us in 21.5 since it's one of the only adult boots available, but acknowledged the buckling could be an issue for some. Good new is she did confirm that Lange makes a true 21.5 even in their higher flex race boots. So hopefully by Tuesday/Wednesday I'll have a true 21.5, 90 flex boot with four buckles to try for comparison.

 

[contesstant]

I don't. I've never used footbeds before. I can make an appointment at the shop to get custom footbeds done on their own (which I can then use for trying on). If I'm already assuming I may need custom liners, does it make sense to do the footbeds? Do folks often have both, or if you get custom liners does that negate the need for footbeds? I don't mind doing both, but I also don't want to waist money on the footbeds if I wouldn't be using them with a molded liner.

I called Outdoor Divas and got some good information, though it doesn't change things much. She confirmed I'm kind of on the right track, given my limited options. The Dalbello Chakras is one of their go-to's for those of us in 21.5 since it's one of the only adult boots available, but acknowledged the buckling could be an issue for some. Good new is she did confirm that Lange makes a true 21.5 even in their higher flex race boots. So hopefully by Tuesday/Wednesday I'll have a true 21.5, 90 flex boot with four buckles to try for comparison.

Yes, you will need a good footbed with a custom liner. FWIW, I had to switch the stock liner from the Rossi ZJ (same as the Lange) to an Intuition race liner because the race liner was too thin. I actually have semi-custom molded Superfeet footbeds, but they are worn out so I have a new pair of completely custom footbeds made by my fitter, who is a pedorthist, on the way.

IIRC Lange has a bit of a higher instep and might be a great choice for you.

 

[Little Lightning]

At this point don't worry about after market liners. If the Lange boots work ski them a few times and see how they feel. Last night I was listening to a pod cast that talked about boot liners. It takes 24 mos. to develop a new ski boot. Most of the work goes into the liner. Shells not so much. People worry about shells and last but the liner is ignored and is the key to good fit in a boot. The guy said that most people can tell within a minute if the boot will work for them. He described how Atomic makes the liner. They are hand made with a variety of materials. Liners are also made to match the shell.

They discussed aftermarket liners such as Intuition liners. There were pros and cons. The take away was that to get good result the experience of the fitter is important because the liner needs to match the foot and the shell. Many shops stopped selling them because they weren't getting good outcomes. He did say that some people get good results and love them but you just need to be aware of the pitfalls. The guy also said they make the flex stiffer although there is one Intuition liner that is not supposed to stiffen the boot. At a $200 price tag I'd rather let my shop make adjustments.

Other tidbits were that a smaller liner in a larger shell won't work. When companies do it they've done something to make that match. There was no mention of the use of foot beds. Companies have a tough time making boots because there are so many nuances to feet. For example, if a person puts brand XYZ boot on and it doesn't feel comfortable within 1 minute they've lost a sale. Other podcasts talked about forward lean, plastics used in the shell and flex.

 

[Little Lightning]

I used custom foot beds many years ago. I was also using shoe orthotics. I also had problems with my left foot and the footbeds cushioned the ball of my foot. Now that I have better fitting boots and no more foot problems I don't use them. I hate anything that presses on my arch.

A few years ago I saw a PT for a foot/leg injury. At that time all my shoes increased pain from the injury. She measured the drop of my arch when I stood. It only moved about 1/4". She said if I used a rigid orthotic it could cause me to supinate so any footbed should be minimal. So based on that I wear my ski boots "naked".

 

[finsterlee]

Thanks all! I'm really excited about new (not just new-to-me) boots. These really haven't been bad length-wise when socked up (no noticeable movement then), but they aren't good either. I still manage to get numb toes with them. And I probably erred on the side of comfort when I bought them because I'd never had a boot fitting before (thanks, dad) and my only experience of ski boots was of them being miserable to wear. So to have something that worked and didn't immediately suck felt like a revelation. Stoked to get something with better fit AND without pain!

Hi! I am late, my apologies for just seeing this. Just more thoughts....I wear a size 8 running/hiking shoe, and I am always fitted to a 23/23.5 boot. I struggle with my feet going numb even in hiking boots in the summer, so it's just a losing proposition with ski boots. I've always had boot heaters too. The thing that finally helped was to get Lange's SX boots made for wider feet. The heel is kept narrower, and it seems to be more the toe box that is widened. I am right on the edge of what is considered wide, and boot fitters all preferred to keep me in a narrow boot and try to punch the boot out for extra width, but it still didn't work. I was in the shop a few times a week for a month. So everyone is different, but I know that I am finally able to spend the entire day in the wider boot, whereas I couldn't go more than two hours before. I actually bought them online just to wear to my son's comps when I had to ski in to the venue and then just stood around all day (Roundhouse up at Sun Valley finally pushed me over the edge), but ended up using them as my full time boot. Another thought is a different style boot depending on how your foot is shaped- my son loves his Full Tilts compared to Langes, and he is in his 7 hours a day, 5 days a week for ski team. Dalbello has a similar style. Good luck!

 

[SMichael08]

At this point don't worry about after market liners. If the Lange boots work ski them a few times and see how they feel. Last night I was listening to a pod cast that talked about boot liners. It takes 24 mos. to develop a new ski boot. Most of the work goes into the liner. Shells not so much. People worry about shells and last but the liner is ignored and is the key to good fit in a boot. The guy said that most people can tell within a minute if the boot will work for them. He described how Atomic makes the liner. They are hand made with a variety of materials. Liners are also made to match the shell.

They discussed aftermarket liners such as Intuition liners. There were pros and cons. The take away was that to get good result the experience of the fitter is important because the liner needs to match the foot and the shell. Many shops stopped selling them because they weren't getting good outcomes. He did say that some people get good results and love them but you just need to be aware of the pitfalls. The guy also said they make the flex stiffer although there is one Intuition liner that is not supposed to stiffen the boot. At a $200 price tag I'd rather let my shop make adjustments.

Other tidbits were that a smaller liner in a larger shell won't work. When companies do it they've done something to make that match. There was no mention of the use of foot beds. Companies have a tough time making boots because there are so many nuances to feet. For example, if a person puts brand XYZ boot on and it doesn't feel comfortable within 1 minute they've lost a sale. Other podcasts talked about forward lean, plastics used in the shell and flex.

That's good perspective. Do you happen to remember the name of the podcast? I'd love to give it a listen. Without jinxing it, I've got my fingers crossed that the Langes work.

If not, I'll have to play with the Dalbellos a few more times (sometimes they've got my feet falling asleep within 5 minutes, other times not, but I'd like to have more confidence in their consistency before committing). And if those are a no-go it'll be the Nordicas. When I talked with the woman at Outdoor Divas yesterday she said that as long as the ankle and heel feel secure, she wouldn't worry as much about a little extra room at the end of the toes, so that was a comfort.

Depending on how the fitting goes, I was actually open to a liner that would add stiffness. I believe I mentioned that some of the race brands will make a 70 or lower in a 21.5 shell, but that once you step up to anything stiffer than that the lowest size option is a 22.5. So I'd been preparing to possibly need to stiffen up a 70 flex boot if that's all that would be the right fit. I appreciated that Outdoor Divas also said that could be an option. Without my even asking she did say that if the Dalbellos really feel the best, a shop could stiffen them up if that was the only reason for not using them. I don't know that I want to put that much work into them if I can find others that work though. But at least I know what some work-arounds might be if it comes to that.

 

[Little Lightning]

I'm hoping the Langes work for you too. These podcasts answers many of your questions-or will make you more confused. I started with liners but also listened to the podcast on plastics and flex. A Very Deep Dive on Ski Boots, Part 4: Liners, Ramp Angle, & Forward Lean (Ep.88) – BLISTER (blisterreview.com)
If the Langes don't work do you think you might try a 22.5?
So many variables. I learned that things like thinner liners, type of plastics used in the boot, to wide of a boot for the foot make the flex feel softer.
I consider myself extremely lucky to have Outdoor Divas close enough that I can get my boots from them. I was in your situation once and used to buy my boots when I came west to ski but none of them fit as well as when I started working with Divas.
Keeping my fingers crossed for you.

 

[SMichael08]

I'm hoping the Langes work for you too. These podcasts answers many of your questions-or will make you more confused. I started with liners but also listened to the podcast on plastics and flex. A Very Deep Dive on Ski Boots, Part 4: Liners, Ramp Angle, & Forward Lean (Ep.88) – BLISTER (blisterreview.com)
If the Langes don't work do you think you might try a 22.5?
So many variables. I learned that things like thinner liners, type of plastics used in the boot, to wide of a boot for the foot make the flex feel softer.
I consider myself extremely lucky to have Outdoor Divas close enough that I can get my boots from them. I was in your situation once and used to buy my boots when I came west to ski but none of them fit as well as when I started working with Divas.
Keeping my fingers crossed for you.

Thanks!! I think if the Langes don't work, I'll be looking at (most likely) going with the Nordica Dobermanns in the 90 flex, unless I can feel confident that I can wear the Dalbello Chakras without having my foot fall asleep. Otherwise, I could try ordering the Dalbello DRS in a 90 flex in a 22.5 and see how it fits, now knowing that ankle fit is more vital than the length. The ones I have in the 70 are very secure in the ankle/heel, but would take a lot to get them stiffened up, and they would for sure need the big toe punched our grinded out. They are also a very short cuff compared to all the others and I can quite tell how that would feel when actually skiing.

 

[Little Lightning]

I'm trying to sort through all this based on my own experiences with boots. Heel hold has always been my issue. I went from the Head Dream to the Dalbello Kyra because it had the best heel hold of al the boots I tried on. Didn't need any other adjustments. However, I was shocked how wide a wide boot it is. 102 mm last! Now I understand why I like the Mach 1 with a 98 mm last.

I looked up the Doberman 70 GP and the description sounded like they are made for younger racers. The "liner is softer, the upper cuff was shorten in proportion to younger racers". It sounds like it's more of a kid's boot vs a Jr boot. The description of the 90 GP said the liner and cuff were designed to meet the needs of lower calf muscles and women.

After listening to the podcast on plastic I'm wondering if the plastics in the Jr. boot shells can be ground to accommodate a needed change to length? My shell says it has PU plastic on the cuff but there are specific areas designated on the outside of the shell that can be ground.

If the Lange doesn't work I'm wondering if a woman's boot with a 98 mm last would work as long as the heel is narrow enough. Just thinking you'd get a more specific woman's fit than you get in a Jr. Race boot.

 

[SMichael08]

I'm trying to sort through all this based on my own experiences with boots. Heel hold has always been my issue. I went from the Head Dream to the Dalbello Kyra because it had the best heel hold of al the boots I tried on. Didn't need any other adjustments. However, I was shocked how wide a wide boot it is. 102 mm last! Now I understand why I like the Mach 1 with a 98 mm last.

I looked up the Doberman 70 GP and the description sounded like they are made for younger racers. The "liner is softer, the upper cuff was shorten in proportion to younger racers". It sounds like it's more of a kid's boot vs a Jr boot. The description of the 90 GP said the liner and cuff were designed to meet the needs of lower calf muscles and women.

After listening to the podcast on plastic I'm wondering if the plastics in the Jr. boot shells can be ground to accommodate a needed change to length? My shell says it has PU plastic on the cuff but there are specific areas designated on the outside of the shell that can be ground.

If the Lange doesn't work I'm wondering if a woman's boot with a 98 mm last would work as long as the heel is narrow enough. Just thinking you'd get a more specific woman's fit than you get in a Jr. Race boot.

I didn't even realize that some could be ground and some couldn't! I think the only ones I'd really need to have ground are the Dalbellos, regardless of junior or women's, as the toe box cuts off my big toe at the corner. Will update after the Langes arrive, hopefully today!

 

[Little Lightning]

I didn't even realize that some could be ground and some couldn't! I think the only ones I'd really need to have ground are the Dalbellos, regardless of junior or women's, as the toe box cuts off my big toe at the corner. Will update after the Langes arrive, hopefully today!

I didn't realize that either until I listened to the podcast on plastics. They were saying that low end boots and children's boots have plastic that will literally fall apart if the boot fitter tries to grind them. Different plastics are being used in a variety of places in the shells. There are symbols stamped into the shell with the type of plastic used so the boot fitter knows if that area can be ground. The podcast talked about boots in general so not sure where Jr. Race boots fit in. There is a podcast on race boots so maybe they include Jr's too. I would expect the Dalbello women's will be high end enough to work. A lot of boot companies will say something about this in the description of the boot when describing features or specs.

 

[Little Lightning]

I didn't realize that either until I listened to the podcast on plastics. They were saying that low end boots and children's boots have plastic that will literally fall apart if the boot fitter tries to grind them. Different plastics are being used in a variety of places in the shells. There are symbols stamped into the shell with the type of plastic used so the boot fitter knows if that area can be ground. The podcast talked about boots in general so not sure where Jr. Race boots fit in. There is a podcast on race boots so maybe they include Jr's too. I would expect the Dalbello women's will be high end enough to work. A lot of boot companies will say something about this in the description of the boot when describing features or specs.

A Very Deep Dive on Ski Boots — Part 1: Plastics (Ep.54) – BLISTER (blisterreview.com)

 

[SamShady]

Sorry, I have not read all the replies but I highly recommend a booster strap if you have skinny ankles/legs. Game changer!!

 

[SMichael08]

Well, I think I've narrowed it down to the Nordica Dobermann 90s and the Langes RS 90 SC. Pretty different boots, other than the fairly narrow last. The Nordicas give me a nice snug feel all over the foot, fairly good in the heel. The Langes are a bit less snug all over, but do have a slightly stronger grip at the ankle/top of the foot. The heel pocket/grip specifically is pretty comparable.
Other considerations:

• The Nordicas are taller, and that feels more familiar.
• The Langes are less comfortable to really lean/flex into, but I'm not a hard charger by any means. I think this is a mix of the height and the shape of the shell.
• But Langes are considerably lighter, which might be nice?
• The Nordicas don't feel any easier/harder to get into than any other boots; with the high instep, the Langes will be near impossible to get into if they aren't warm (speaking from having tried to test them out as soon as they got here - needed to wait until they were basically up to room temp)

I did get some custom footbeds yesterday. I'm able to get them in the Nordicas, but not the Langes since they are the smaller shell (they suggested I wait to cut the toes down until I decide on a boot so that I don't cut them too short if I end up with a 22.5 boot). With the Nordicas, they feel like they provide some additional security in my right boot, a bit less so in the left. That was my only impression last night. But putting the Nordicas back on today, I also noticed that in both feet, the footbeds took up just enough room that until the liner packs out a bit my foot starts to get a bit tingly/numb (not terribly so, but it's there). I'm a bit skeptical that I could get my foot in the Langes with footbeds in given that the instep already makes getting them on such a pain.

When I was getting the footbeds done the bootfitter grabbed a pair of rentals that had just come back - some old Atomic Hawx in a 22.5 that were actually quite snug everywhere. They're $50, which almost makes it worth picking them up just to have as a comparison and/or backup. They're the same BSL as the Nordicas so they truly could be interchangeable. The Langes have a smaller BSL so I wouldn't be swapping those. Cost isn't a deciding factor, but fwiw I got the Nordicas for $280 since they are a season or two old and the Langes were $500.

The Nordicas feel most like what I'm used to, but I'm not sure that's a good indicator since I was in the wrong size before. But in general, they feel the most ski boot-like. So I'm both intrigued by the different feel of the Langes and it makes me a tad nervous at that price point. Ultimately, I think I plan to schedule a fitting session with the shop and take both pairs in to talk through these question with them and see if they are able to work any magic with the footbeds.