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Unsolicited Venting
- Thread starter Mary Brosnan
- Start date
Hey Everyone!
It's a pleasure to be invited to join this thread. Thank for having me on.
I appreciate all the thoughts and feedback - both about the catalog, but more about the RENOUN brand in general. We're constantly trying to improve and hearing thoughts from outside the office walls is super helpful. That being said, any decision that is made is ultimately passed by me and I take full responsibility for the brand.
I made a pretty definitive decision when we launched 4 years ago to market to men. My logic was they make up a greater portion of the market (I've seen numbers between 58-73%) and statistically guys adopt technologies quicker. And thus, the male-targeted brand was developed. Looking back, I don't think we needed to 'pick' one or the other - it would have been possible to develop a more neutral look/feel to everything. But we didn't and that's our loss at this point.
We've been (slowly) trying to change things to be less targeted towards males but it's going to take some time. Graphics, photos, web-banners etc will slowly be changed out as we have new content (and skis!) in.
In regards to the catalog: 80% of our content comes from athletes, and we have only 1 female athlete. Yup, just 1. Why? About 1/20 (or less) sponsorship requests are from ladies. We have a number of items we require for being an athlete, but the number of Instagram followers and gender aren't part of it. Content (ie photos) is what's the biggest driver for giving someone a free pair of $1,300 skis (or 3) - and a small fraction of any 'sponsorship request' have the ability/know-how to take good photos. Combined, this means very few people make the cut, and since 1/20th of the applicants are female, even fewer women are in. If anyone knows any ladies that rip and take good photos, definitely have them reach out, we need more than 1!
Hope this helps! We've got a ways to go and there's always room for improvement.
Cyrus
- Founder
It's a pleasure to be invited to join this thread. Thank for having me on.
I appreciate all the thoughts and feedback - both about the catalog, but more about the RENOUN brand in general. We're constantly trying to improve and hearing thoughts from outside the office walls is super helpful. That being said, any decision that is made is ultimately passed by me and I take full responsibility for the brand.
I made a pretty definitive decision when we launched 4 years ago to market to men. My logic was they make up a greater portion of the market (I've seen numbers between 58-73%) and statistically guys adopt technologies quicker. And thus, the male-targeted brand was developed. Looking back, I don't think we needed to 'pick' one or the other - it would have been possible to develop a more neutral look/feel to everything. But we didn't and that's our loss at this point.
We've been (slowly) trying to change things to be less targeted towards males but it's going to take some time. Graphics, photos, web-banners etc will slowly be changed out as we have new content (and skis!) in.
In regards to the catalog: 80% of our content comes from athletes, and we have only 1 female athlete. Yup, just 1. Why? About 1/20 (or less) sponsorship requests are from ladies. We have a number of items we require for being an athlete, but the number of Instagram followers and gender aren't part of it. Content (ie photos) is what's the biggest driver for giving someone a free pair of $1,300 skis (or 3) - and a small fraction of any 'sponsorship request' have the ability/know-how to take good photos. Combined, this means very few people make the cut, and since 1/20th of the applicants are female, even fewer women are in. If anyone knows any ladies that rip and take good photos, definitely have them reach out, we need more than 1!
Hope this helps! We've got a ways to go and there's always room for improvement.
Cyrus
- Founder
Or maybe Renoun should proactively reach out to female athletes. "No women are coming to us" is what every company with terrible ratios / every conference with all male speakers / etc etc etc will tell you.
Thanks for jumping in, Cyrus, but "I made a conscious choice to exclude women" followed by "and weirdly now no women are coming to me!" is kind of a bummer to hear.
Thanks for jumping in, Cyrus, but "I made a conscious choice to exclude women" followed by "and weirdly now no women are coming to me!" is kind of a bummer to hear.
Mary Brosnan
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Thank you, thank you, thank you for saying this! I was so angered by Cyrus's response and I didn't want to type anything immediately for fear of posting something I might regret. But the way he articulated his point of view gives me no confidence that he really cares about this issue. It felt like a bunch of excuses.
This is not the type of company I want to support with my hard earned dollars. I know there are other ski companies out there that go out of their way to include and support women and that's where I will be spending my money in the future.
SquidWeaselYay
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I tend to wonder if women making up a smaller portion of the market is a "chicken and the egg" situation. I already make less than my male counterparts, so I'm going to make sure that if I am making a big purchase, it is going to be one that works well for me. That being said, I certainly will dump HEAPS of money (more than I should....) into the hobbies I love. I just want to make sure those heaps are paying for the best possible experience for me. If there seems to be no consideration of how a product will perform for women, I look elsewhere because I want to make sure my money is well spent.
So I wonder if women tend to avoid sports like skiing because it is portrayed as largely male and most of the equipment is designed for men, not because we don't like to do it. I predict that as companies develop more products for women and advertise TO women, their participation in the sport will grow.
Just my two cents.
So I wonder if women tend to avoid sports like skiing because it is portrayed as largely male and most of the equipment is designed for men, not because we don't like to do it. I predict that as companies develop more products for women and advertise TO women, their participation in the sport will grow.
Just my two cents.
SquidWeaselYay
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
BTW, I agree with @RachelV. If you don't seem to have anything FOR women or that is just as good for women as men, then you probably aren't going to be on the radar of female athletes looking to rep a product. You're most likely going to have to extend a hand to them with a little extra effort if you want to overcome the inertia.
Aramada is a company that comes to mind when I think of ski makers that do a good job of selling to women. Their ads pop up on my social media feeds featuring groups of women decked out on their skis and wearing their softgoods. Just today an ad came up with women shredding and riding the chairlifts. I clicked it. It made it seem like they have good stuff for me and want to sell to me.
Aramada is a company that comes to mind when I think of ski makers that do a good job of selling to women. Their ads pop up on my social media feeds featuring groups of women decked out on their skis and wearing their softgoods. Just today an ad came up with women shredding and riding the chairlifts. I clicked it. It made it seem like they have good stuff for me and want to sell to me.
Jenny
Angel Diva
Beautifully said.
Tvan
Angel Diva
Cyrus,
Thanks for your response. I invite you to consider intentionally broadening your product and marketing strategies, and considering the unique opportunity that you, specifically, have on this site to interact with a targeted group of highly motivated female skiers on several continents. If you ever had the chance to ask for and receive input on how to design equipment for, market to and include women in your business plan, this is it.
There are a number of enthusiastic Renoun customers on this very site... perhaps some or all of them would be interested in helping you shape a message that speaks directly to women. Or, you could create a marketing survey and open it to members of this site. Or perhaps you could ask us what matters to us.
I’m pretty sure we’d respond.
Thanks for your response. I invite you to consider intentionally broadening your product and marketing strategies, and considering the unique opportunity that you, specifically, have on this site to interact with a targeted group of highly motivated female skiers on several continents. If you ever had the chance to ask for and receive input on how to design equipment for, market to and include women in your business plan, this is it.
There are a number of enthusiastic Renoun customers on this very site... perhaps some or all of them would be interested in helping you shape a message that speaks directly to women. Or, you could create a marketing survey and open it to members of this site. Or perhaps you could ask us what matters to us.
I’m pretty sure we’d respond.
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I just don't get how men make up that much of a majority of the market. But even if they make up 58% of the market, why deliberately ignore 42%? If you have a product you believe in, don't you want to reach as much of the market as possible? I'm not talking "shrink it and pink it". You don't need to change the product. If you believe in your product, market it. And market it to as wide a market as possible. 100%.
Really? When I first read about these skis I was not confused or scared. I did not think "that's more than I can understand, I won't buy those." I thought "Oobleck skis, cool. I want to try some."
Why have I not tried them? They are not at demo days. I don't want to buy skis, mount them, and then have to deal with returning them if I don't like them. I prefer to demo a ski, fall in love, and find a way to buy them.
SquidWeaselYay
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I find that in general, most people do not know how to respond to constructive criticism.
SquidWeaselYay
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
No joke, I took their "ski finder" quiz, wrote a little about what I like/dislike about skis, and the owner emailed me back with specific recommendations.Also, everyone... J S K I S
What. A. Company.
Now I have to go find somewhere to demo the Masterblaster.
ilovepugs
Angel Diva
What are your ski plans for January? I have a pair with demo bindings on at their shortest length. I actually want to sell them because they’re just too much ski for my ability level.
ilovepugs
Angel Diva
[damnit... too unfiltered tonight!]
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SquidWeaselYay
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Hm...I am going to Jackson Hole the last week of the month. Can you send me a PM with the length and your price? I don't want to derail the thread too much on here.
WaterGirl
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I rode the "beginner" lift at one of the bases two weeks ago (fast access for me to other side of mt during wind holds) with a woman who had on $$$$ outfit and Renoun skis. I asked her about skis. NO FN CLUE about the ski or technology. She had "just got them." (not from around the mountain - no one carries them). She wasn't sure about being able to get down the run. BF didn't know about technology either. I knew more about the ski then they did. SO Maybe BF bought them for her b/c she would look hot???? OR just b/c they were $$$$????? weird.
Really sounds like a bunch of BS re: marketing. I'll stop there. Being part of the 2% of women who are hard core surfers - don't need no mansplaining about marketing for the male masses.
Good luck.
However if your ski company starts with a J.... maybe you making the right choice @SquidWeaselYay
I know plenty of highly competent female skiers who enjoy and rock that brand....
Really sounds like a bunch of BS re: marketing. I'll stop there. Being part of the 2% of women who are hard core surfers - don't need no mansplaining about marketing for the male masses.
Good luck.
However if your ski company starts with a J.... maybe you making the right choice @SquidWeaselYay
I know plenty of highly competent female skiers who enjoy and rock that brand....
SquidWeaselYay
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
........wut.........
This blows my mind. How...how do you end up in a 1k+ set of skis....and have no idea what is strapped to your feet. Girl, you got the non-newtonian, cutting edge tech and you don't even know it.... Some people have more money than sense.
