ilovepugs
Angel Diva
Lol, “more money than skill” is my catchphrase when it comes to skis! Hence why I ended up with those masterblasters thinking I would “grow into” them. Fat chance!
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Unsolicited Venting
- Thread starter Mary Brosnan
- Start date
Lol, “more money than skill” is my catchphrase when it comes to skis! Hence why I ended up with those masterblasters thinking I would “grow into” them. Fat chance!
WaterGirl
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Im thinking she was there as a "girlfriend." Not a skier. Based on everything else. Just saying.
SquidWeaselYay
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Gross.
SquidWeaselYay
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Hey Cyrus @Renoun ,
I thought about it, and though I am still not satisfied with the "no female athletes approach me, so not my fault" rationale, I do want to acknowledge that you stated that you want to move in the direction of marketing to women and portraying them accurately.
So here is an idea; if you can't get any women for "good photos," then forget the photos. Start by reaching out to women in a different way. Create a page on your site where you have anecdotes about your skis that are written BY women, talking about what they like about it. Your skis seem to be unisex and great for both sexes without any women's specific engineering, just by nature of the tech you have put into them. But I don't know that for certain because the only place I have seen women talk about them is here. Why not create a "Renoun for Women" page where some of these ladies that love them give reviews about how they differ positively from other women's skis, and how awesome they are? No photos with female athletes needed.
I'd read it. While pics of women on skis designed for women is eye catching, that isn't the only thing we look for. Ultimately, we want to hear from other women about how it performs. Plus, once you start publicly including women in the discussion, you may have more women seeking out your product, and attract more reps. Low-risk, low-cost way to start edging into the other half of your marketing potential.
I thought about it, and though I am still not satisfied with the "no female athletes approach me, so not my fault" rationale, I do want to acknowledge that you stated that you want to move in the direction of marketing to women and portraying them accurately.
So here is an idea; if you can't get any women for "good photos," then forget the photos. Start by reaching out to women in a different way. Create a page on your site where you have anecdotes about your skis that are written BY women, talking about what they like about it. Your skis seem to be unisex and great for both sexes without any women's specific engineering, just by nature of the tech you have put into them. But I don't know that for certain because the only place I have seen women talk about them is here. Why not create a "Renoun for Women" page where some of these ladies that love them give reviews about how they differ positively from other women's skis, and how awesome they are? No photos with female athletes needed.
I'd read it. While pics of women on skis designed for women is eye catching, that isn't the only thing we look for. Ultimately, we want to hear from other women about how it performs. Plus, once you start publicly including women in the discussion, you may have more women seeking out your product, and attract more reps. Low-risk, low-cost way to start edging into the other half of your marketing potential.
WaterGirl
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
So I’m rethinking my after work knee jerk post about mansplaining.
@Mary Brosnan you bought the skis b/c you liked them, they worked for you. If I understand correctly it’s the after purchase marketing that you received that you don’t care for. Cyrus states he specifically marketed the ski for men - no different than any other ski brand that has men specific models. (Although his explanation is quite lame - and without any statistical merit) After re-reading his response whether he changes his marketing strategies or not is his prerogative. You of course have the right to support or boycot his company.
His response shows he doesn’t really care about a women’s market. End of discussion. Any change will be “slow.” So if he doesn’t “care” why should we spend any more time on what he “could be doing?” I don’t buy skis based on websites or catalogs, or if they are women’s, men’s, or unisex — rather how they ski.
@Mary Brosnan you bought the skis b/c you liked them, they worked for you. If I understand correctly it’s the after purchase marketing that you received that you don’t care for. Cyrus states he specifically marketed the ski for men - no different than any other ski brand that has men specific models. (Although his explanation is quite lame - and without any statistical merit) After re-reading his response whether he changes his marketing strategies or not is his prerogative. You of course have the right to support or boycot his company.
His response shows he doesn’t really care about a women’s market. End of discussion. Any change will be “slow.” So if he doesn’t “care” why should we spend any more time on what he “could be doing?” I don’t buy skis based on websites or catalogs, or if they are women’s, men’s, or unisex — rather how they ski.
SquidWeaselYay
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Yeah, good point. I totally wasted my breath with that last post I guess.
WaterGirl
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
@SquidWeaselYay perhpaps you should charge for the marketing advice :0
vanhoskier
Angel Diva
The marketing of Renoun is not BS. It works. Best pair of skis I have ever skied, hands down.
@Renoun was kind enough to read and respond to this thread and you all are acting like a bunch of petulant, whiny brats.
I do not need to see pictures of women skiing the skis I am interested in buying.
Renoun technically is still a start up company, and Cyrus seems to have made calculated decisions in order to have success, and it is working.
So you can choose to pay for them and enjoy them, or you can continue to whine that you feel left out.
There are a lot of other ski companies out there. Go find one that has lots of pictures of women skiing their skis and go buy a pair of those.
kiki
Angel Diva
To be fair, starting and operating a ski equipment company is hard work and sometimes hard choices about how to best get it off the ground have to be made. So many new companies fail as they try to do too much. This is a small startup boutique ski company with only 3 skis being produced--and they are fabulous, premium skis. We need to step back sometimes and appreciate the hurdles a small business owner faces. Even being brave enough to come and address us (likely a scary audience).
Cyrus is 100% allowed to create a ski company that markets to and caters to men, that’s totally fine. I just think it’s silly to go through the trouble of reaching out to Wendy and getting a special exception to post here for an answer that basically said he doesn’t care that much about reaching more women.
If he actually does care about reaching more women, it takes about 15 seconds of google research to discover that waiting for women to come to you via methods that have historically left women out isn’t the way to go about it.
After years of interviewing for software engineering roles and trying very hard to reach underrepresented groups of all kinds, his “no women are coming to me for sponsorship, it’s their fault” really did push some buttons that I have.
If he actually does care about reaching more women, it takes about 15 seconds of google research to discover that waiting for women to come to you via methods that have historically left women out isn’t the way to go about it.
After years of interviewing for software engineering roles and trying very hard to reach underrepresented groups of all kinds, his “no women are coming to me for sponsorship, it’s their fault” really did push some buttons that I have.
WaterGirl
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
SquidWeaselYay
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
That is a very good point about startups. Breaking into the ski industry as a cottage manufacturer is not an easy task. I certainly understand that decisions must be made of where to allocate your resources. He can certainly do whatever he wants with his business.
Perhaps I misunderstood his intentions for joining this thread. He asked to join an all women's forum to join the discussion that began with the portrayal of women in this sport. I have never been very good about keeping my mouth shut, so i took the opportunity to talk about where I see the deficits in the ski industry regarding women and what i would like to see more of. I personally feel that representation matters. If I see an opportunity to advocate for more inclusion of women, I take it. I understand that not everybody shares this view or my values and that is okay.
For me, this isn't even about the skis. From my perspective, an up and coming leader in the cottage ski industry came to us. It was an opportunity for different voices to be heard, put our two cents in. That doesn't happen often.
But based on his response, it seems that was not his intention. I'm actually not sure what his intention was at this point. I was hoping he would join the discussion a bit more. It seems I misread the purpose of his presence, which.... Oh well. It happens, especially over a keyboard.
Perhaps I misunderstood his intentions for joining this thread. He asked to join an all women's forum to join the discussion that began with the portrayal of women in this sport. I have never been very good about keeping my mouth shut, so i took the opportunity to talk about where I see the deficits in the ski industry regarding women and what i would like to see more of. I personally feel that representation matters. If I see an opportunity to advocate for more inclusion of women, I take it. I understand that not everybody shares this view or my values and that is okay.
For me, this isn't even about the skis. From my perspective, an up and coming leader in the cottage ski industry came to us. It was an opportunity for different voices to be heard, put our two cents in. That doesn't happen often.
But based on his response, it seems that was not his intention. I'm actually not sure what his intention was at this point. I was hoping he would join the discussion a bit more. It seems I misread the purpose of his presence, which.... Oh well. It happens, especially over a keyboard.
nopoleskier
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Hi Cyrus @Renoun
if you're still reading..it's me "ADKMel" You know I LOVE my Z-90's! They are the greatest ski I have ever skied. I know several Divas on here have bought them or demo'd them and now lust after them because of my skiing on them, my bragging and speaking about the WOW factor and my love of this ski.
Ladies, I think some of the hard lines you're taking hearing Cyrus's honesty in explaining how he launched Renoun is tad overboard. I didn't think he asked to come on here, Ski Diva invited him for a limited time to listen in and to response to Mary's Email complaining not enough women in the ads. Hats off to Cyrus agreeing to come on here to hear our ideas on what we wanted. Some of you sure told him~
The Reality is: there are more men than women skiing. Men Do buy and try new 'tech' quicker and spend more $$ than women, that's how I took Cyrus' techno comment not as a slight against women. This is a business. Seriously, be honest, how many of you ladies buy new skis EVERY YEAR and go out and buy the newest hottest skis at $1000+?? ALL the guys I ski with DO buy New Skis Every year some buy 2 pair of the latest and greatest (so they think) They spend Thousands Every year!! I know some of you are like me. We ski the same ski until they are all used up. We don't buy the latest, we know some women buy to match their outfit or won't buy because they don't like the color of the top sheet regardless how perfect the ski is! When Rocker first Came out I hated those Rossi S7's that tip flap OMG! So I bought 2 pair of my Atomic Heaven's Gates and skied 'old' skis Waiting on technology. Thank you Cyrus for your technology! GENIUS! I know Making a ski is expensive. Making different sizes is expensive. Congrats on how far the company has come in a short time!
I've never seen any ads, Personally, I don't care if women are in ads. I don't buy skis based on an ad, or to match my outfit. I did buy these skis (without demoing) based on reviews by people who I watched ski on them via video and I read a lot of reviews and I went with technology. And they come with a 100day guarantee (does your J company do that?)
Because I love the Z-90's I really want the Z-77's for eastern skiing. And I want fatter Renouns. I also was going to email Cyrus to ask if the Citadel or the other "Fat" skis will be made in shorter sizes as the company expands and grows and continues it's success. I'm guessing YES they will get shorter. I know the Z-77's and 90's were made shorter. I'm on the 165's.
To help some ladies untwist your panties... Please know that Cyrus does care what women think! He came on here! Rest assure, He does ask Ladies who ski the skis for their input as he continues to refine, evolve and make the greatest ski even better. There just aren't as many of us (women) on these skis. So doubtful many photos. So you know, I have written and been published in reviews on renoun site, but women have to write reviews then Cyrus has material to publish. I have been included in 'techno' conversations w/Cyrus and other men and women that ski the ski looking for input on what we liked/didn't like. This ski is NEW it is just getting out there. Cyrus is very open to hearing everyone's opinions.
I'm sure when Cyrus reads this he will take it to heart. I hope won't be too turned off by some of the hissing. I'll bet we'll be seeing some ladies ripping on Renouns in future print ads. Seriously, If you haven't tried them IMO you are missing out!
If you ladies think more photos of ladies ripping on @Renoun 's will get you to try and buy.. Cyrus I'll gladly Volunteer! My avatar is me on my Z-90's taken at Taos and I'd be glad to send you other photos! I will continue to promote Renoun, because it is the greatest ski I have ever skied.
Cyrus I'll be a fan forever, thank you. All the Best, Mel
if you're still reading..it's me "ADKMel" You know I LOVE my Z-90's! They are the greatest ski I have ever skied. I know several Divas on here have bought them or demo'd them and now lust after them because of my skiing on them, my bragging and speaking about the WOW factor and my love of this ski.
Ladies, I think some of the hard lines you're taking hearing Cyrus's honesty in explaining how he launched Renoun is tad overboard. I didn't think he asked to come on here, Ski Diva invited him for a limited time to listen in and to response to Mary's Email complaining not enough women in the ads. Hats off to Cyrus agreeing to come on here to hear our ideas on what we wanted. Some of you sure told him~
The Reality is: there are more men than women skiing. Men Do buy and try new 'tech' quicker and spend more $$ than women, that's how I took Cyrus' techno comment not as a slight against women. This is a business. Seriously, be honest, how many of you ladies buy new skis EVERY YEAR and go out and buy the newest hottest skis at $1000+?? ALL the guys I ski with DO buy New Skis Every year some buy 2 pair of the latest and greatest (so they think) They spend Thousands Every year!! I know some of you are like me. We ski the same ski until they are all used up. We don't buy the latest, we know some women buy to match their outfit or won't buy because they don't like the color of the top sheet regardless how perfect the ski is! When Rocker first Came out I hated those Rossi S7's that tip flap OMG! So I bought 2 pair of my Atomic Heaven's Gates and skied 'old' skis Waiting on technology. Thank you Cyrus for your technology! GENIUS! I know Making a ski is expensive. Making different sizes is expensive. Congrats on how far the company has come in a short time!
I've never seen any ads, Personally, I don't care if women are in ads. I don't buy skis based on an ad, or to match my outfit. I did buy these skis (without demoing) based on reviews by people who I watched ski on them via video and I read a lot of reviews and I went with technology. And they come with a 100day guarantee (does your J company do that?)
Because I love the Z-90's I really want the Z-77's for eastern skiing. And I want fatter Renouns. I also was going to email Cyrus to ask if the Citadel or the other "Fat" skis will be made in shorter sizes as the company expands and grows and continues it's success. I'm guessing YES they will get shorter. I know the Z-77's and 90's were made shorter. I'm on the 165's.
To help some ladies untwist your panties... Please know that Cyrus does care what women think! He came on here! Rest assure, He does ask Ladies who ski the skis for their input as he continues to refine, evolve and make the greatest ski even better. There just aren't as many of us (women) on these skis. So doubtful many photos. So you know, I have written and been published in reviews on renoun site, but women have to write reviews then Cyrus has material to publish. I have been included in 'techno' conversations w/Cyrus and other men and women that ski the ski looking for input on what we liked/didn't like. This ski is NEW it is just getting out there. Cyrus is very open to hearing everyone's opinions.
I'm sure when Cyrus reads this he will take it to heart. I hope won't be too turned off by some of the hissing. I'll bet we'll be seeing some ladies ripping on Renouns in future print ads. Seriously, If you haven't tried them IMO you are missing out!
If you ladies think more photos of ladies ripping on @Renoun 's will get you to try and buy.. Cyrus I'll gladly Volunteer! My avatar is me on my Z-90's taken at Taos and I'd be glad to send you other photos! I will continue to promote Renoun, because it is the greatest ski I have ever skied.
Cyrus I'll be a fan forever, thank you. All the Best, Mel
SnowHot
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
As I read through this thread these are the thoughts I had, and quite frankly, I am saddened by the things being said about an extremely intelligent man who invented a technology in his early 20's and brought it to market in skis for skiers, not gender specific, but skiers. Women are skiers.
Everyone here should remember that his company is only four years old. Kästle has been back up in the ski business after a hiatus for 15 years and have not brought a women's specific ski line to the industry until the line that's coming in the 2020 line up. No one is screaming at Kästle.
Cyrus didn't say he didn't want to sell skis to women and he hasn't been lost on women in the market place, or he wouldn't have sent his skis to a handful of women who are key influencers in the ski industry, including @ski diva and myself.
He held a small focus group in Colorado that included two of Pugski's female testers, one of whom is @pinto. He currently has a focus group set up on Pugski and specifically asked that we have women involved (I think there are four)
I have received several pair of Renouns in different sizes, flexes and shapes both for feedback and to share with other women to get out on snow with them, including one Diva who has now stated that she wants Cyrus to change his evil ways.
If I were to give him advice for his business, I'd recommend that he not have a women specific line in the future, but instead have different sizes, flexes and graphics that appeal to everyone.
Could he use some more female athletes in his images? Sure, athlete acquisition of any gender hasn't been his priority while he's still getting his ski business off the ground. Producing a phenomenal ski product that fits all genders, shapes and sizes has been his priority.
For the record, I was sent these skis and asked to get photos for Renoun.
SnowHot
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
pinto
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
This thread probably portrays perfectly exactly why the poor kid not even out of college yet wanted to avoid women. We are a pain in the ass! (Yes, in the end we are worth it...) It's too much! It's too little! You won't listen! Ok you listened, but I don't like what you say! back and forth, a million different opinions. Avoid a third of the market but two-thirds of the headaches -- not a bad strategy. Cyrus is a KID. A really smart engineery type kid, but give him a fucking break. Have a little patience, it'll come around. He's worth it (and so are we).
SnowHot
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
pinto
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
These are good points made in a reasonable manner, although I didn't read his reply in exactly the same way you did. It seems to me that some awareness wasn't there at first but is growing; it's difficult to be all things to all people, especially as a young person and company.
(I love that this discussion is going on in a forum that bans men, however. As always, I understand why it exists, but sometime the pot-meet-kettle aspect is just too much...)
