Help Needed: New Zealand - please help me to choose first skis

[florentinella]

I would still try the Maven. I like skis with metal usually and was very surprised by the Maven, if the rep had told me it had some titanal in it I would have believed them!

Yes, I'll demo these!

The Captis skis short in my opinion, I am surprised the reps did not suggest you go longer based on your impression. Usually I have skis that are mid-150s as I am 158cm. I would not have wanted to go shorter than the 160cm that I tried. The reason I think you skiied it too short is that you shouldn't feel of instability and chatter on that ski based on your feelings with the other skis you tried, unless they are too short for you.

Interesting I'll see if these are available, but I'm actually quite excited to demo all other skis with metal - now I discovered I like metal

My impression of Faction is freeride and park skis with a bias to touring/big mountain, they used to partner with Candide Theroux who is a very good freeride skiier. The Dancer is the most piste focussed of their ski line but because I know the brand for freeride, I thought it would not be the sort of ski I enjoy.

Yes, I know, I read about them but very few reviews are available. I'm confused, but I did like them. I'm going to demo these again

 

[AJM]

How are you getting on @florentinella ?
Did you manage to get a pair of ski's ?
Just for the record I've just bought a pair of K2 Mindbender 85 C's that I'm fondly calling my "Orthopedic Skis" as I've bought them to assist in my rehab and to enable to me keep skiing (at this point in my recovery my beloved Sheeva 9s are just a bit too much for my recovering legs).
For reference I'm usually a strong intermediate who tackles pretty much the whole mountain in all sorts of conditions. Post injury I am a little more cautious.

Leith at Gnomes came up with 3 options for me -
Atomic Maven 86C
K2 Mindbender 85C
Dynastar E 4x4 5

The Atomics weren't suitable due to sizing they go from 153 straight up to 161. The 153's wouldve been too short (Im 165cm and around 56 kg) and the 161's too long for what I wanted them for (rehab)

The Dynastars had ugly graphics and would've been very turny so they were a no.
I ended up with the K2's as they seemed to fit the bill for what I wanted them for.
They seem very confidence inspiring and they're not too twitchy, easy to turn and all the good things I needed.
They're marketed for the beginner - intermediate market but I think a whole range of abilities could have a good time on them, bonus points for the price point !

I noticed you gave the Fischer RC1's a go, I tried them last week when they were demoing at Porters and absolutely hated them !! When I spoke with Ally from Gnomes he said he jumped on a pair of the Rangers and the same thing, he thinks they all had a really bad tune hence we both had such a gruesome time

 

[florentinella]

Hey, I'm going to QT in a week, and lined up a few demos (from a rep and shops demo hire):
Black Pearl 88 in 159
Santa Ana 88 un 158
Atomic Maven 86C in 161
Faction Dancer1 86 in 162
Volkl Kenja 88 in 163

and I can try K2 Mindbender 89 in 158 again if none of the above are a definite winner! And I can see what else they are demoing on the mountain if this is not enough. I'll be SOO confused but I'm so looking forward to trying them all.

For reference I'm usually a strong intermediate who tackles pretty much the whole mountain in all sorts of conditions. Post injury I am a little more cautious.

What kind of an injury did you have if you don't mind me asking?

Leith at Gnomes came up with 3 options for me -
Atomic Maven 86C
K2 Mindbender 85C
Dynastar E 4x4 5

Did you actually try them or did you just buy them?

The Atomics weren't suitable due to sizing they go from 153 straight up to 161. The 153's wouldve been too short (Im 165cm and around 56 kg) and the 161's too long for what I wanted them for (rehab)

The Dynastars had ugly graphics and would've been very turny so they were a no.

haha, yes, they are not pretty. It's the same with Faction - I really don't like the strong magenta pink, but if that's the winner, I can get the green ones at least.

I noticed you gave the Fischer RC1's a go, I tried them last week when they were demoing at Porters and absolutely hated them !! When I spoke with Ally from Gnomes he said he jumped on a pair of the Rangers and the same thing, he thinks they all had a really bad tune hence we both had such a gruesome time

hmmm, Yes, I enjoyed skiing them, perhaps because the were better than Rossignol Experience (having metal hence more stable etc) But I decided against testing them again, as overall, they might be too narrow, and given NZ snow & conditions, I might be better off with something wider more all mountain etc I'm only getting one pair, and this will be my only pair so needs to do everything ;)

I'll report back when I'm back - fingers crossed for good weather!

 

[AJM]

Wow you are gonna one busy girl !! How exciting for you

What kind of an injury did you have if you don't mind me asking?

I broke my left Tibial Plateau and right ankle plus my meniscus and some pesky tendons on my right foot at the end of last season. So was a long Summer of rehab rehab rehab, I probably shouldnt have got back on ski's so soon but not being on ski's is not an option in my life !!

Did you actually try them or did you just buy them?

I just jumped in and bought the K2s, trusted my gut feeling based on what I know I like and what I needed the ski for. I also had lengthy discussions with Leith at Gnomes as she is a friend who knows my skiing style and situation well. The K2's I bought are narrower and softer than the ones you are going to demo.
I'm more than likely going to end up out skiing them later in the season as I get stronger but for now they are perfect.

Have a wonderful trip and please report back xx

 

[florentinella]

I broke my left Tibial Plateau and right ankle plus my meniscus and some pesky tendons on my right foot at the end of last season. So was a long Summer of rehab rehab rehab, I probably shouldnt have got back on ski's so soon but not being on ski's is not an option in my life !!

ouch, sounds really bad, so sorry! I had to google it, but I feel for you. I had an injury about 5 years ago now - left knee partial bundle tear ACL and it was bad with 9 months of rehab ...
And then this year at the end of May my dog pulled me so badly I twisted my right knee and thought will have to cancel all skiing this year - I was so cross with her! But I did pilates nearly every day for 2 months and I think ended up with stronger knees than before...

I just jumped in and bought the K2s, trusted my gut feeling based on what I know I like and what I needed the ski for. I also had lengthy discussions with Leith at Gnomes as she is a friend who knows my skiing style and situation well. The K2's I bought are narrower and softer than the ones you are going to demo.
I'm more than likely going to end up out skiing them later in the season as I get stronger but for now they are perfect.

Yes, it's definitely easier when you know what you like and you are obviously so much more experienced, and it's good to have someone who knows your skiing style and abilities too. Apparently, I downplayed too much my abilities - hence ended up with skis not really suitable. But after the injury I'm definitely a cautious skier and not really after speed. It's the journey not the destination for me ;)

Have a wonderful trip and please report back xx

will do!! xx

 

[florentinella]

Hello, I'm back. Thought to report straight away while things are still fresh in my head although I have been making notes every day. I went for 9 days / 7 skiing days to QT. For those of you who know NZ ski fields: we did 3 days at Coronet and 4 days at the Remarkables.

CONDITIONS:
Remarkables had definitely better snow - and on 3 days we got there early enough to catch the beautiful freshly made cord. Coronet was icy in the morning turning into creamy slush by lunchtime. We did Friday night skiing too but the cords didn't last long at all.

I tested/ demoed lots of skis - changing back and forth and / or taking them out again the next day if the demo guys were on the mountain again. I had 2 pairs for the whole week from a rep, hired 3 pairs from the shops to test properly, and then also demoed a few on the mountain - just to confuse myself some more

**********************​

Day 1 - Coronet
Black Pearl 88 in 159 (rep)
Very firm, I felt I needed to push/drive them forward and ski fast and aggressively, they felt too long in front. I didn't like them.

MOUNTAIN DEMO: VOLKL Kenja 88 in 156cm then 163cm, back to 156cm
Nice, easier - I preferred 156cm

Day 2 - Remarkables
Santa Ana 88 in 158 (rep)
Better than BP, but stiff and hard work, legs were sore, didn't particularly like them

Day 3 - Remarkables
Faction Dancer 1 86 in 162 (shop hire) (I tried these a month ago at Mt Hutt)
AMAZING. Stable, easy to turn edge to edge, very balanced, beautiful with fresh cord and stable in softer / mushy snow at the end of the day. I loved them!

Day 4 - Remarkables
Atomic Maven 86C in 161 (shop hire)
Lighter than Faction, softer but still stable, no chatter, super easy to carve cords, easy to turn edge to edge, softer in slush but still stable, I didn't have to work hard to turn or ski them. I was surprised to really really LIKE them! They were just right!

Day 5 - Remarkables
Volkl Kenja 88 in 156 (shop hire)
I reserved 163cm but based on that demo on day 1, I took out 156cm.
They were nice, stable, easy to turn, I did feel they wanted to be skied more aggressively than I was giving them opportunity so there was room for growth?

MOUNTAIN DEMO: K2 Mindbender 89 in 158cm (I tried these a month ago at Mt Hutt)
Nice, stable, easy to turn and ski, safe choice? This is the ski I have been recommended in 2 shops.

Day 6 - Coronet (afternoon + 1hr of "night skiing")
Black Pearl again - same again - didn't like them

MOUNTAIN DEMO: BLACK CROWS Captis 90 in 166
too "chunky" = too wide, didn't like them

MOUNTAIN DEMO: BLACK CROWS Divus 82 in 162cm
Easy, fast, super easy to turn edge to edge, felt slim but floated well above slush and mush even though they were narrowest of all I tried, felt like performance skis ? NICE, I loved them!

MOUNTAIN DEMO: Atomic Maven again
nice and easy

Day 7 - Coronet
Santa Ana again - didn't like them

MOUNTAIN DEMO: BLACK CROWS Divus 82 in 162cm (again)
same - Loved it! Quick edge to edge, easy, floaty, felt light and I could glide on them through the slush.

**********************​

RESERVATIONS:
KENJA: they were nice but are they too short for me in "the long run"? I'm 164cm tall 5'5
I felt that 163 were too long, so maybe the sizing is not for me?

FACTION:
Hate the colour (bright pink) but apparently the mens version is exactly the same construction just a different top sheet so I could go with Red/Orange... which is also not really my colour ....
Also, I'm wondering if they are not too advanced for me - given the brand's background - are they for much more aggressive skiers? - I'm not aggressive nor fast...

MAVEN:
are they too soft and would I outgrown them too quickly? I cannot change skis in 2-3 years - they should last me at least 5 years before I can mention to my hubby I want new ones

K2: nothing, they were nice but they didn't really stand out - I just can't remember them well ... and I couldn't remember them after my previous trip neither ...

BLACK CROWS:
too narrow? But then - it's only 4mm vs Faction...
I only tried them for 6 runs, so was that a good enough test?

**********************​

So that's where I'm after 7 days and 9 pairs of skis . What do you think?
I'm attaching photos from the run keeper I use - so you can see my runs and the speed - or lack thereof!

 

[WaterGirl]

@florentinella I love your dedication to demoing! Seems like you are finding that what is working for you is stiff but not too stiff ski in the 162 range. Your two top choices are both made of popular and have titanal along with a flatter tail. The differences on paper are not that great (I could only compare 169/170 versions of the two skis) but the tips are both around 120, The Divus is a bit narrower waist, lighter and has a smidge narrower tail and a longer turn radius(16m) than the Dancer (14m). I Cann't find the mount point for the Dancer the Divus is -8. I'm sure you have looked at the brands websites
https://us.factionskis.com/collections/x-series/products/dancer-1-x-womens-ski
https://www.black-crows.com/us/en/p/divus-birdie/101369-grey-vg.html
Can you continue to demo these two? back to back?

I have not been on any faction skis so I can't comment, but I have been on a lot of Black Crows. I know you originally liked the Vertis as well, but not the Captis, they both do not have titanal so maybe not giving you the stability in a shorter length you are comfortable with. The Divus (birdie) is the narrower sister ski to the Orb. (they did make Orb birdie at one point but now unisex w/ shorter lengths.) @Soujan and I both have the Orbs - they are 88mm and a stiff ski that I find can also go off piste with. The trade off would be that you loose some of the carvability as the turn radius in a 159 is 18m and its a pretty stiff ski. I didn't want to add to the mix you already have but really just let you know there is another Black Crows ski that has the H shape Titanal in a wider and stiffer ski. IMHO the Orb would (is) also a bit more on the knees to turn than the Divus or Dancer.

The only other thought I have is do you recall what demo bindings were on both skis? If they were the Marker Squire or Griffon then the toe is higher than the heel (negative delta). This is something you want to take note of -- other bindings have a higher heel and either set up may or may not work for you.

 

[Rashika]

hey all, new here but I had to say I'm loving reading your thread @florentinella
I too want to buy new skis but am the same, too new to know quite what would suit me yet so i'm enjoying your commentary... its given me incentive to try some demo skis!
Keep us updated!

 

[tinymoose]

Hey! Glad to see more people trying Faction. I haven't skied the Dancer myself, but I did demo and buy the Faction Agent earlier this year, and I think it's fairly similar to the Dancer in design except it has a carbon weave instead of metal like the Dancer. I think while Faction aims for a lot of off-piste/backcountry skiing, I also can't say I've ever read any reviews on them that make them seem unapproachable to less aggressive skiers. Coming from junior race skis, I find my Agents to be super chill, easy-to-ski skis. They're fun and energetic on groomers but also shine in deeper snow/when it gets choppy. I keep saying the Agents are going to make me a worse skier b/c I find them so undemanding. lol I feel like they do a lot of the work for me.

My stats: east (ice) coast US, low advanced to advanced skier, 5'1", 95 lbs

 

[florentinella]

hey all, new here but I had to say I'm loving reading your thread @florentinella
I too want to buy new skis but am the same, too new to know quite what would suit me yet so i'm enjoying your commentary... its given me incentive to try some demo skis!
Keep us updated!

Oh definitely demo before you buy! It's actually a lot of fun to see what you like and see how your skiing and confidence changes on different skis!

 

[florentinella]

@florentinella I love your dedication to demoing! Seems like you are finding that what is working for you is stiff but not too stiff ski in the 162 range. Your two top choices are both made of popular and have titanal along with a flatter tail. The differences on paper are not that great (I could only compare 169/170 versions of the two skis) but the tips are both around 120, The Divus is a bit narrower waist, lighter and has a smidge narrower tail and a longer turn radius(16m) than the Dancer (14m). I Cann't find the mount point for the Dancer the Divus is -8. I'm sure you have looked at the brands websites

yes, tips are the same 120, waist 86 faction vs 82 crows, tail 110 faction vs 105 crows
but Crows are actually a bit lighter in 162cm : 1475g vs 1550g for Faction
Re mounting point: it seems Faction have 3 mounting positions depending on your preference, I'm not sure what it was on the skis I tried - but I can call the shop to find out

https://us.factionskis.com/collections/x-series/products/dancer-1-x-womens-ski
https://www.black-crows.com/us/en/p/divus-birdie/101369-grey-vg.html
Can you continue to demo these two? back to back?

hmmm, I don't live near slopes unfortunately. We have one more family trip at the end Sept / October, so I'm hoping I can get a 2-3 days of skiing then, but I was also hoping to get skis before then. It's end of the season here in NZ, and I suspect some skis will be sold out as we are a small country with limited supply so I would need to wait for the new season (around May-June 24) with new prices... At the moment I don't even know if either of the two are actually available, as I didn't want to be influenced by price or availability but choose them based on performance / likeability ....

I have not been on any faction skis so I can't comment, but I have been on a lot of Black Crows. I know you originally liked the Vertis as well,

yes, BUT that was a year ago - at it was the first and only pair I tried after rental Heads. I didn't try them this year, but I suspect I might find them too soft...

but not the Captis, they both do not have titanal so maybe not giving you the stability in a shorter length you are comfortable with. The Divus (birdie) is the narrower sister ski to the Orb. (they did make Orb birdie at one point but now unisex w/ shorter lengths.) @Soujan and I both have the Orbs - they are 88mm and a stiff ski that I find can also go off piste with. The trade off would be that you loose some of the carvability as the turn radius in a 159 is 18m and its a pretty stiff ski. I didn't want to add to the mix you already have but really just let you know there is another Black Crows ski that has the H shape Titanal in a wider and stiffer ski. IMHO the Orb would (is) also a bit more on the knees to turn than the Divus or Dancer.

Yes, that's a negative for me (given my past knees injuries) so thanks for pointing it out. Also, I think I'm at the stage where I enjoy carving and learning to do it properly rather than going off piste - I think that points towards the narrower Divus then?

The only other thought I have is do you recall what demo bindings were on both skis? If they were the Marker Squire or Griffon then the toe is higher than the heel (negative delta). This is something you want to take note of -- other bindings have a higher heel and either set up may or may not work for you.

this is interesting - and I haven't considered it... is this an entire new thing to consider?!
What does the negative delta do? Push you back?

 

[florentinella]

Hey! Glad to see more people trying Faction. I haven't skied the Dancer myself, but I did demo and buy the Faction Agent earlier this year, and I think it's fairly similar to the Dancer in design except it has a carbon weave instead of metal like the Dancer. I think while Faction aims for a lot of off-piste/backcountry skiing, I also can't say I've ever read any reviews on them that make them seem unapproachable to less aggressive skiers. Coming from junior race skis, I find my Agents to be super chill, easy-to-ski skis. They're fun and energetic on groomers but also shine in deeper snow/when it gets choppy. I keep saying the Agents are going to make me a worse skier b/c I find them so undemanding. lol I feel like they do a lot of the work for me.

My stats: east (ice) coast US, low advanced to advanced skier, 5'1", 95 lbs

Yes, from what I have read, that's their background, but seems that the Dancer is very much aimed for on piste - from their own website:

The Faction Dancer 1X is primed for maximum fun on the pistes. The sustainably-sourced wood core and sprightly 86 mm waist width paired with two razor-thin sheets of titanal results in the ideal blend of trustworthy stability and ease of handling. From untouched corduroy in the early morning, to late-afternoon bumps in the sun, this ski makes light work of it all. Backed by the finest, most durable Austrian construction, powered 100% by renewable energy. The Dancer 1X features the same construction as the Dancer 1 with an alternate topsheet to celebrate women in skiing.
You'll love this ski if:

• You want to ski fast but under control
• You want a super-stable ski that can also rip in the bumps
• You want a ski that is easy to turn in all conditions
• You are skiing almost 100% on the piste

 

[florentinella]

I Cann't find the mount point for the Dancer the Divus is -8. I'm sure you have looked at the brands websites

Got the info back from the rental shop: The Faction skis I tried were mounted on the progressive marker - does it mean anything to you?

The only other thought I have is do you recall what demo bindings were on both skis? If they were the Marker Squire or Griffon then the toe is higher than the heel (negative delta). This is something you want to take note of -- other bindings have a higher heel and either set up may or may not work for you.

The binding would have been Warden 13 or Warden 11

I don't know what the bindings would have been on the crows unfortunately ...

 

[tinymoose]

Got the info back from the rental shop: The Faction skis I tried were mounted on the progressive marker - does it mean anything to you?

Here's a good video explaining the 3 mounting points:

 

[florentinella]

Here's a good video explaining the 3 mounting points:

yes, I have seen and posted it too

 

[tinymoose]

yes, I have seen and posted it too

oh! sorry didn't scroll up to see it.

 

[AJM]

Just throwing the Sheeva 9's in the mix. I was up today with the girls from our local ski shop and they were demoing the K2 MB 89 Ti and the new Sheeva 9's and one of the girls was loving the new Sheeva, verrrrry different from last years model.

 

[Rashika]

Just throwing the Sheeva 9's in the mix. I was up today with the girls from our local ski shop and they were demoing the K2 MB 89 Ti and the new Sheeva 9's and one of the girls was loving the new Sheeva, verrrrry different from last years model.

Hmm I wonder if they will b there again tomorrow, maybe I can demo some different skis

 

[AJM]

Hmm I wonder if they will b there again tomorrow, maybe I can demo some different skis

They were just up there testing them for product knowledge purposes but you can go into Gnomes and get ski's to demo

 

[Rashika]

They were just up there testing them for product knowledge purposes but you can go into Gnomes and get ski's to demo

Will b interesting to see what they thought of them, might have to call into gnomes sometime.