inept skiers on expert slopes

[LilaBear]

I just had an image of silver fish shoulder to shoulder on skis when I read SDs description. So much fun. :ROTF:

I've skied the East, Killington, Mount Snow, Stratton. I would not have said these were crowded slopes compared to other experiences I've had. The smaller resorts in Europe are where the pistes are packed, narrow runs with hordes of people, sometimes about 50% of the mountain can be as packed as that.

I'm lucky that now my skill and confidence levels are such that I can ski around pretty much anything, so I don't have the mental block that I once had about high traffic areas. Perhaps because of my culture the only thing that gets my dander up on the slopes is purposeful discourtesy to others, not inadvertent behaviours that come from fear or mistakes. I wish I didn't get all het up about people who jump the lift lines.

 

[abc]

Wow! 5 pages!!! And still growing...

The moment I read "Whiteface", I knew what's coming.

It's called "Ice Face" for a reason. It's one of the most CONSISTANTLY iced up of any northeast resorts I know of. And the only area I haven't skied are up in Canada!

It's a resort that attracts lots of ski racers and a lot of very good "ice skaters". They go there to get the best thrill by going faster than any other place, precisely due to the icy surface!

Unfortunately, Whiteface INSIST to call itself a "family resort"! So, a lot of clueless intermediates went in way over their head. (Every run in WF are harder than "normal" -- same colored runs in other resorts!) And it's inevitable some of the "advaced" skiers from other hills will attempt the double blacks and in way over their head! Selling those silly pins after they side-slipped their way down the icy headwall simply encourages such behavior!

So, yeah, those "inept" skiers being there is annoying. But that's the result desired by the resort. I'm well passed the age of having anything to proof. But go back 20 years, I'd probably go down it just to say I did!

Much of this thread had focus on defending developing skiers who accidentally got in over their head. But the chief complain was about skiers who clearly knows they don't belong there yet still insist on going down it due to oversized ego! They deserve to be put in their place!!!

If you have a grip, you really should voice it to the WF management. Perhaps they should "police" the head wall and remind people they have no business being there!

 

[whitewater girl]

But I've never had too much of a problem with crowds out here. I am mindful of others, and save for giving the stink-eye to a few speedies here and there, I have not really had problems with people being unmindful of me. I guess I was taught well. Then again, I was taught to not stand in the middle of a sidewalk, too. It all comes down to common courtesy, and some people just don't have it, I guess.

I have to say, since I got off the greens, I haven't had any problems with the "speedies" - and far fewer problems with "congregators"(do get alot of both on the greens)...where I ski, people on the blues/blacks seem mostly in control, aware and conscience of etiquette. Yes, we have newer skiers moving up, with long traverses, irregular stops & starts and sometimes loosing it, but they are easy to spot & go around - we even have one black that most of the kids flock to (right under a lift - interesting to watch some days!) - but it really is a rather polite, truely family oriented mountain...I'm told I'm in for a rude awakening when I start branching out to other resorts!

 

[MaineSkiLady]

^^^ +1 - we are lucky. One of the main reasons that this "home base" was chosen. The resort, specifically the upper mountain, has something of an intimidation factor, at least regionally, that seems to keep people in check, including a black diamond cross-cut that accesses these runs. Seeing anyone wildly out of control on the upper mountain is a total rarity (though has occurred, just atypical). There's a certain civility (16 y/o snowboarder males holding doors open for ladies?? ), low rate of ski theft, day skier bags in lodge cubbies are unbothered, lift line etiquette is observed - as is patience when required. Fabulous shuttle service for day skiers from outlots, always hosted by at least one ambassador with conditions updates (and safety reminders), skis get put onto bus racks and taken off by same (wow), orderly procession to lodge, just a pleasure. Yay for Sugarloaf, Maine.

 

[Toucan]

I've found this thread quite interesting and wanted to offer a question for consideration. When it comes to the "tough terrain," (define that however you want to), who is "more inept?" The slow, cautious, genuinely-skiing-under-control skier who may "clog" the run or the fast-skiing missile who shoots down the run clearly out of control?

My nature is such that I will ski terrain that is on the edge of my comfort level but I stay to one side of the run, try to make careful predictable turns (not necessarily on bumpy runs but I'm trying), and ski in control (even though mentally I may be quite scared!). I don't think I'm "inept" but again given how I'm wired, I would never attempt anything that was so clearly out of my ability level that would impose significant danger to myself and to others.

 

[ZealouslyB]

I was there. Perhaps a different time of day. I was there primarily before the opening of Double Runner East, so it was DRW to T-bar, and I didn't notice that many stops. Or a sign. Nor I have seen any ski patrollers at any intersections. That is generally something that might be assigned to ambassadors (many more this season, mostly doing shuttle duty). I have seen patrollers at various locations at Sunday River over the years, however. The "danger" sign and gates at summit of White Heat were removed after either the '02 or '03 season. Huge difference between these 2 resorts in general. Huge.

We got to the Loaf at like 10am. DRE and DRW were open, the line was quite congested. When you got to the T-bar, the line started to get long; then backed up terribly due to inexperienced people trying to get on it (many were boarders, I do understand T-Bars are much harder for boarders). We were waiting to get on when the liftie pulled down the dry erase board and posted the statement about not riding today if you're new to the lift. We ended up not staying long. Between the lines and the biting wind, it wasn't a good day to learn tele :-(.

I did mean that the intersections at Sunday River are being monitored, not at Sugarloaf. There's really not as much a need for it at the Loaf, that's the beauty of it being farther away- keeps more tourists out :-).

My mistake about White Heat- I thought the sign was still there?? Shows you how much I ski it.... I refuse to because of the aforementioned population of skiers who overwhelm it. I do, however, love the glades on either side (skied early before the toursits reallize they're there) and Aftershock.

 

[ski diva]

"Ineptitude" strikes a wide swath.

I was coming down a bump run at Okemo a couple weeks ago, when I heard alot of screeching and howling behind me. I stopped and turned around, and barreling down the trail, smack in the middle, were several of the racing teens straightlining at top speed across the tops of the bumps, richocheting over them like ping pong balls -- not skiing them at all. They were totally out of control, and I don't mind saying I was afraid for my life! I had no time to get out of the way, and I knew it was just seconds before they crashed and burned.

I was not disappointed.

It's amazing they weren't hurt.

 

[ZealouslyB]

If you have a grip, you really should voice it to the WF management. Perhaps they should "police" the head wall and remind people they have no business being there!

I whole heartedly agree. I think that prevention & education are key.


I also agree with whoever made the statement about blaming resort color-coding for some of the problem. At Lost Valley in Maine, they have a 300 ft run they call a black. It's sort of steep, but even if you get over your head- the lodge is right there, there's a big flat run out at the bottom. Versus.... a black at most other resorts..... no comparison. Not even in the same category.

MSL- Yes, we're very blessed to have that kind of security and trust amongst strangers. And bravo for the 16 y/o!!!!! I never lock up my bag, have yet to have anything go missing (although I did get ketchup spilled on my bag once. ew.)

 

[gr8outdoors]

I was just at Whiteface over the weekend. The name of the trails they ran the downhill on in the 1980 Olympics are Cloudspin (for the men) and Skyward (for the women). Cloudspin was closed due to lack of snow. The only "Double Black Diamonds" they have at Whiteface are "The Slides", which you have to hike to after you get off the lift and it is glade skiing for experts only. The rest of the diamonds there are only single diamonds, however they are tougher than the double black at my home mountain. We bought a poster that says "Some mountains think our blues are their blacks...that's ok, we think their greens are the parking lot". Very true at Whiteface.

We went down Mountain Run (a black) without any trouble, but slower than we would go down something not so steep.

It was quite crowded there on Saturday and Sunday, but Monday was fairly quiet for a holiday. On Saturday I had a snowboarder get on the back of my skis because he could not manage to stop before he hit me and I fell. In his defense, it was icy and a pretty steep section for a blue in that spot, but people do still need to be in control. I did yell at him after I found my skis, since they had both come off in my crash. No, I was not stopped on the trail, I was skiing in control (not slowly either) until I had someone else on my skis, thought I could recover and didn't.

Just needed to give the correct information about the blacks vs. double blacks and the correct names of the trails mentioned in previous posts.

Sherry

 

[veggielasagna]

Thanks for clarification on the trails Sherry. Both are steep trails right off of the Summit Chair. Skyward definitely attracts a ton of people regardless of conditions really. On a side note, if you're ever at WF in the spring and the Slides are open, it is an amazing experience!

-veggielasagna

 

[Mary Tee]

90 replies and counting (yikes, I guess this thread has really hit a nerve). One of the consistent themes is that people get in over their head (accidently) because a blue is NOT a blue is NOT a blue. I ski Whiteface quite a bit, and yes a diamond there is a DD in most other places, and not just because it is icy, it is the pitch as well. So, can anyone think of a way to rate the trails that would be more consistent from resort to resort? I don't think the resorts would be willing to rate them by something like degree of pitch. If that was the criteria, many of the smaller resorts would not have any diamonds, (and a resort with no diamond trails would lose business) or the larger resorts would have to have not only DDs, but also triple Ds and 4D. Any thoughts on a fair way to rate trails from resort to resort?

In all fairness to Whiteface, one of the reasons we ski there is because we are forced to ski on weekends (that working thing always gets in the way), it is one of the resorts that doesn't get insane on the weekends...I wouldn't dream of going to Okemo on a weekend, but we can go to Whiteface, be there for first chair and leave by 11:30 when things get crowded, and have gotten in a lot of skiing.

 

[Sassy]

I've skied a few places that had Rangers that were separate from Ski Patrol. The Rangers actually policed the mountain leaving Ski Patrol to deal mostly with injured skiers. I often wished that patrol would "encourage" snowboarders to not congregate in the middle of a trail. Here on the east coast, they tend to pick the most dangerous places (ie. right at the beginning of a drop, where it's too late to be aware of them if you aren't a good skier). And they do tend to spread out. My friends and I call refer to this as "pigeons on a wire." The one difference about the west coast and east coast is that I have found on the west coast that patrol is much more active at keeping people from stopping in dangerous places. The other thing to remember is that the frustration with skill level vs. trail difficulty is probably more frustrating for east coast skiers since the trails tend to significantly narrower than out west. Even when the lift lines are slow out west, I've found that there's plenty of mountain to run without many people hazards.

One of the blue trails I like here on the east coast is always filled with people who are skiing it like a slow green. They are clearly in way above their abilities. The thing that always confounded me is that I see a lot of parents with their toddler children (literally about 5 or 6 yrs old) who are wedging nice wide turns VERY slowly. I'm not saying they shouldn't be there, but I believe that it's irresponsible of a parent to have their young children on a blue run where people do ski fast. But that being said, whenever I see slow skiers and especially children, I always slow down no matter what. I have even taken dives to avoid hitting a child who didn't know what they were doing and wound up in my path. I want them to want to keep skiing! Sometimes when that blue trail is packed, I move to the slow green which is usually completely empty (because they're all on that blue run), and I have it wide open. Patrol usually lets you just run it as fast you want when there's no one else there. It's not challenging, but it is a long run that you can make as fun as you want. My approach to skiing is like driving. Always know what's around you (people and terrain), learn to read how a person is skiing and you can usually anticipate what they're going to do, be in control of my skis and speed, always look when heading into oncoming "traffic", and have fun regardless of how frustrating a run can be. I'm just happy to be on my skis!

I think the thing to remember, is that we've all been that slow moving skier that someone was annoyed with. And I'm sure even at my more advanced level, there's someone else skiing better behind me quietly wishing I were on a different trail! ;)

 

[Gloria]

I think it's safe to say that we all have our degrees of ineptitude. I for one am totally inept at skiing on congested groomed runs. I am not used to skiing with alot of people around me, and I go slower and sometimes I will even cut across the slope if I think there are fewer people on the other side, I pull off and stop on the side of the run and let "packs" of people ski past me. We all have our weirdness, and oddly this is mine. It freaks me out!!!

As for people being inept on expert slopes. It's simply not something that I personally get uptight about. I learned to ski at 3, board at 18, tele at 29, and back to alpine at 34. Being a beginner so many times on the slopes including starting my own youngster at 3 has given me a different perspective. I find I get more uptight with the "expert" that simply has to ski through the group of kids or braze the woman on her maiden voyage down a black run than anything else. If I ever do get mad, it ussually has to do with people lacking decency and creating unsafe circumstances for the little kids out skiing and learning.

 

[Jilly]

and let "packs" of people ski past me.

I was on a CSIA seminar a few years ago with the British Ski School. They were explaining their technique vs ours. We were waiting to push off when one these "packs" of skiers appeared and moved towards us. The BSS instructor asked us to wait till the "leeming attack" had moved through. I always remember that name now. You know how leemings follow each other in packs and will go off cliffs etc!

Thanks gr8outdoors, I was looking for a trail map the other night to get those names. The only DD are in the slides. Someplace that has never been open when I been there. In fact Upper WF, where cloudspin is, hasn't been open to often when I've been there too.

 

[abc]

Never mind small mountains, if you look at what Stratton or Okemo call "double black", you'll know half of Whiteface's single black would qualify!

One of the things about WF though. I don't recall much bump runs. Even the steepest pitches are always a glassy skating lane tilted near vertical!!! :( I do wonder about why? Is it because it doesn't get much powder so it never bump up?

 

[abc]

I think it's safe to say that we all have our degrees of ineptitude. I for one am totally inept at skiing on congested groomed runs. I am not used to skiing with alot of people around me, and I go slower and sometimes I will even cut across the slope if I think there are fewer people on the other side, I pull off and stop on the side of the run and let "packs" of people ski past me. We all have our weirdness, and oddly this is mine. It freaks me out!!!

Are you talking about me?

 

[CMCM]

I don't mind careful skiers or boarders, but what drives me nuts are those who do not know how to control their speed or are unable to turn at all....they siimply get up there and barrel straight down the slope at increasingly faster speeds, looking at every moment like they are about to wipe out. They expect everyone below them to get out of the way, because they can't maneuver around those below them. They can't modify speed and they can't really stop....these are the folks who generally use falling as a way to stop, except when they get going too fast they're afraid to do that so they just hang on for dear life and zoom straight down, expecting everyone below to get out of the way of their trajectory.

I'm especially touchy about this because I got hit from the back by one of those out of control boarders a couple of years ago. I was knocked off my feet, both my skis flew off, and I found myself on the ground with the wind totally knocked out of me and I thought I had a broken back or something. And when I recovered enough to get up, I had a very strong urge to go punch the lights out of the guy who hit me. (yeah, I know, not very ladylike ).

 

[Gloria]

Are you talking about me?

Doubtful.
Personally I am humbled by those of you who can ski the ice back east. I can't keep up with a 5 year old on an icy groomer. I doubt there is anyone on this board who wouldn't have to wait for me in that situation.
Admittedly inept in the west.

 

[abc]

Doubtful.
Personally I am humbled by those of you who can ski the ice back east. I can't keep up with a 5 year old on an icy groomer. I doubt there is anyone on this board who wouldn't have to wait for me in that situation.
Admittedly inept in the west.

I know why I dislike icy groomers so much. I was hit from behind by a boarder once!

I took it to "hide" in bumps, even icy ones, instead!

It's rare you get an idiot straightlining a bump run. And even if they do, they won't last more than a couple bumps before they crash. And the other thing about bumps? you (usually) don't slide un-controllably for 100 yards after the crash.

More over, I don't see those ego-driven intermediates congregating at the top of a double black bump run working up their nerve to prove how "good" they think they are!!!

Sometimes when that blue trail is packed, I move to the slow green which is usually completely empty (because they're all on that blue run), and I have it wide open.

Blue runs ARE often the worse. You have a combination of "recent graduates" from the green traversing slowing across the width of the slope, and the self-proclaimed "experts" straightlineing it!

If I can't find an uncrowded black/bump run, the greens are often my favorate in a crowded day. It's after all easier for me to weave around the slower beginers in front of me than trying to dodge the straightlining idiots coming from behind.

 

[dloveski]

....barrel straight down the slope at increasingly faster speeds, looking at every moment like they are about to wipe out. They expect everyone below them to get out of the way, because they can't maneuver around those below them. They can't modify speed and they can't really stop....these are the folks who generally use falling as a way to stop, except when they get going too fast they're afraid to do that so they just hang on for dear life and zoom straight down, expecting everyone below to get out of the way of their trajectory.

And if they hit someone in Utah doing this, it's a citation similar to a moving vehicle accident. And if they leave the scene, it's a hit and run. I've heard resort radio alerts describing the perpetrators and ski patrol radioed the highway patrol at the base, who busted the hit and runners getting in their truck and nailed them. It's not always possible, but there are laws.