inept skiers on expert slopes

[tamlyn]

Dloveski;
The situation you describe in Utah should how it is everywhere! People who cause accidents should be held accountable Especially when there are injuries are involved.
Tami (gravity girl)

 

[LilaBear]

The BSS instructor asked us to wait till the "leeming attack" had moved through. I always remember that name now. You know how leemings follow each other in packs and will go off cliffs etc!

20,000 Lemmings can't ALL be wrong!

 

[ZealouslyB]

I'm especially touchy about this because I got hit from the back by one of those out of control boarders a couple of years ago. I was knocked off my feet, both my skis flew off, and I found myself on the ground with the wind totally knocked out of me and I thought I had a broken back or something. And when I recovered enough to get up, I had a very strong urge to go punch the lights out of the guy who hit me. (yeah, I know, not very ladylike ).

I too had something similar happen, while racing at Loon Mtn. in New Hampshire. Ran me right over, took my ski with him as he crashed, twisting my knee badly . I had a grudge against boarders for a long time.

I am also one of those people who freaks at the sight of a packed trail and am incapable for picking a line for fear that I'm going to end up cutting someone off or have an out of control person run into me. I was out of skiing for awhile due to a knee injury that started with that boarder hitting me. I have no desire to miss another ski season for that so I guess I end up going overboard being careful.

 

[Squaw]

When it comes to the "tough terrain," (define that however you want to), who is "more inept?" The slow, cautious, genuinely-skiing-under-control skier who may "clog" the run or the fast-skiing missile who shoots down the run clearly out of control?

I'm comfortable with my own skiing to the point that "inept" or thoughtless/clueless skiers don't bother me in the sense of my own security and safety. But they do bother me when it comes to trashing a run (particularly powder) or making unpredictable movements that ARE dangerous.

Since I replied earlier, I have continued to think about this thread and the points raised. Being at Squaw Valley now all week, I've had a chance to watch what happens -- and yes, of course, every example given has occurred. Two in particular to share, from my own experience.

I had to hockey stop to a baseball slide yesterday to avoid full speed body impact with a man who turned and stopped suddenly in front of me. Yes, technically I was responsible as the uphill skier. And perhaps I should have had more distance between us. But actually I did (she says in her own defense ). This was on a narrow ridgeline trail leading to ABSOLUTELY EXPERT / EXTREME off piste skiing, where the last part of the ridge you must hold speed to get up the other side. It is not infrequent for more intermediate skiers to misread this route, trying to find a gentler way down. Knowing this I ALWAYS watch people's turn patterns and pace them, before trying to pass in order to get up the hill. I had watched this man and kept my distance all the way down the ridge. As he had little speed, and his turns where regular, when he turned to the right, I figured I could safely pass him. Nope. His buddy stopped and so did he, SUDDENLY whipping left to look into the wide gully off the ridge. I yelled, set an edge, and as he was barely aware of me, deliberately went into a slide, hoping to break my speed and hit him minimally. I did hit him, and he was kindly worried about me. But later I realized he had no clue as to what part he played in the drama. It has continued to bother me -- and hence all my words here (thanks for listening, doc), because I really am a polite skier. I promise. And I know I am technically the one responsible. But I sure wish people like him would be more aware.

Saga # 2. Much happier story. Classic stuck woman, abandoned in a narrow expert mogul chute. I thought about this thread. I checked in with her - was she alone? No, she should not sit down and butt slide. Your side steps down are perfect. Here, try traversing and then doing a big wide turn. You are doing great. I am happy to wait. (in truth I did not want to leave her alone). Turns out her ski partner was a woman, waiting at the bottom on her cell phone. I pulled up next to them, and asked to say a few things. I would have liked to have chastised her friend, but instead encouraged her to have confidence, that her turns were fine, all she needed was to keep her hands in front, etc. An unasked for coaching moment. If her friend WAS truly an experienced skier, I hope she was chagrined at having a stranger helping her friend, while she was oblivious on the cell phone.

Long rant. Sorry. But felt good to say it. I felt like I lived this thread.

Jen

 

[Slidergirl]

...Saga # 2. Much happier story. Classic stuck woman, abandoned in a narrow expert mogul chute. I thought about this thread. I checked in with her - was she alone? No, she should not sit down and butt slide. Your side steps down are perfect. Here, try traversing and then doing a big wide turn. You are doing great. I am happy to wait. (in truth I did not want to leave her alone). Turns out her ski partner was a woman, waiting at the bottom on her cell phone. I pulled up next to them, and asked to say a few things. I would have liked to have chastised her friend, but instead encouraged her to have confidence, that her turns were fine, all she needed was to keep her hands in front, etc. An unasked for coaching moment. If her friend WAS truly an experienced skier, I hope she was chagrined at having a stranger helping her friend, while she was oblivious on the cell phone...Jen

I had a similar incident yesterday. My last run of the day, down Silver Queen, a double blue. At the start of the pitch, there stands a mom and her maybe 8 year old. The kid is whimpering about not wanting to go and the mom looks pretty apprehensive, too. There's no other option at that point than to either go down that run or head to a black diamond. Well, I start talking to the kid, telling her all she has to do is make her snowplow turns and just go across the hill a little before making the next one. I said I'd be behind her. She starts out and actually does a pretty good job. Mom follows. When we get to the bottom, I stop next to the little girl to tell her she did great and to just do like she did if she feels scared. Well, mom comes down and stops next to a man on a cell. Yep, it's dad... I don't know if they got lost and missed the easy way back.
I will always stop and ask a person if I think they look like they might need help. It is just common courtesy and safety. Sure, my run was a little slower than I would have liked, but mom and daughter got down safely and they both thanked me at the end.

 

[dloveski]

IWhen we get to the bottom, I stop next to the little girl to tell her she did great and to just do like she did if she feels scared. Well, mom comes down and stops next to a man on a cell. Yep, it's dad... I don't know if they got lost and missed the easy way back.

As Gump says, 'Rude is as rude does'........what a schmuck. Just think what it's like to live with that dude.........::(:(:(

 

[ZealouslyB]

This thread has really stuck with me too. Makes me analyze things a bit differently while on the hill.

I've also been forced to be one of the less experienced skiers again. DD and I are learning to tele ski, tried doing some steeper blues at Sunday River this weekend. Not a good experience. Under quiet, groomed conditions I would have been perfectly happy practicing my slow, traversing turns to work on edging. But the hill was packed, the snow was uneven. On my alpine gear, I'd be ripping it up. On tele- it wasn't too fun. It was shocking that no one seemed to be aware of the fact that I was learning, nor made an attempt to go around me. They bombed right by. So we booked it out of there and went to wider, slower blues lower down the mountain. Fewer people, more room to manuever and I felt great by the end of the day, finally able to focus on skiing and not staying out of people's lines.

So my experience and this thread has definitely re-opened my eyes. I realized that my boyfriend is notorious for stopping in the middle of the hill, so this weekend I was constantly on him to move over and in general be more considerate. I had to smile when he stopped twice to check on little kids who fell- very unusual for him. I'm working on being more aware of my own habits as well. What did steam me is that three times after stopping on the side of the trail- we were still almost run over by people skiing a line towards the side of the trail, spraying us with snow as they skied by instead of just moving out into the trail. I saw it coming, had to stop myself from sticking out a ski/pole to to trip them.

Anyway I know many have had heated opinions about it, but for me it's definitely been a worthwhile conversation and I'm glad the topic was brought up.

 

[Robyn]

As Gump says, 'Rude is as rude does'........what a schmuck. Just think what it's like to live with that dude.........::(:(:(

That's pretty presumptuous. How do we know they started the run together? Maybe they were supposed to be meeting up at the bottom and mom and daughter got themselves into the predicament.

 

[MaineSkiLady]

What did steam me is that three times after stopping on the side of the trail- we were still almost run over by people skiing a line towards the side of the trail, spraying us with snow as they skied by instead of just moving out into the trail. I saw it coming, had to stop myself from sticking out a ski/pole to to trip them.

Last season, atlantiqueen and I were getting a mini-private from a Perfect Turn coach and fellow diva (who, sadly, hasn’t posted here in awhile). It required some technique demo’s - and stopping. She not only advised using the poles as “deterrents” but pointing them UPHILL if necessary.

Right. Was the last weekend day I bothered going there. No more. Bad manners/etiquette, aforementioned “bombing by” - and if had a dime for each person who proceeded after stopping without EVER so much as glancing uphill.....

 

[atlantiqueen]

and that was on a green run!!!

 

[MaineSkiLady]

and that was on a green run!!!

Ah, memories.... was Dreammaker?? skiwishes was fabulous, hope she's doing okay. Remember how terrified I was? Just back after injuries healing. And there you were, w/your meniscus....

 

[fatoots]

Some of the issue of skiers on slopes beyond their capability is a lack of information. And in some cases an abundance of ego. And in some cases those who innocently get over their heads -- because they have not yet learned to read the terrain, regardless of what the signs say, or do not understand what "expert/black" means at a given resort.

Frankly I find the "green-blue-black diamond" designation to contribute to the problem as much as helps. How many skiers do not consider that a "blue" in one snow condition might actually be a "black" in another?

Jen

I haven't finished the thread yet, but this is exactly what I was going to chime in with. I know at the big two in Maine, Sugarloaf, and Sunday River, many blue runs would be black in most other places.

It still kills me when I see people snowplowing down them though.

This week was just that too, all the family vacationers taking their snowplowing kids down Rouge Angel and Excalibur--which are good transition-to-black trails because they are wide with a bunch of steep rolling headwalls. Crowded advanced trail with kids plowing. It wasn't fun.

If you're still plowing, I can't see how one thinks you can go down an advanced trail, even if you're bored. I know I didn't enjoy taking more advanced trails with friends, because I was just "getting down them", not skiing them.

 

[MaineSkiLady]

I know at the big two in Maine, Sugarloaf, and Sunday River, many blue runs would be black in most other places.

Point of reference? Other places? Where? Goodness, there are greens at Snowbird that are steeper than Haulback (black) at Sugarloaf. It's relative to the particular resort.

 

[fatoots]

Point of reference? Other places? Where? Goodness, there are greens at Snowbird that are steeper than Haulback (black) at Sugarloaf. It's relative to the particular resort.

Well, yes true. It's relative the other way as well. I've never been west except for Northstar at Tahoe and it seemed comparable in designations. I was thinking more like someone else said, Lost Valley or Wachusett in MA. Meaning someone who skis the black runs in Wachusett and then comes to SR or SL and thinks, "OK, I'm heading for Top Gun" might be in for a big surprise, or the person who does really well at Shawnee Peak and hits up Northern Lights or Amex thinking it's going to be like blue trails there. (like my nephew- he had a lot of trouble on Risky and he'd been riding Shawnee for years) Just echoing what Squaw said.

 

[MaineSkiLady]

The degree of difficulty run designations are relative to the specific resort, anyway --- with great variability, obviously, between resorts. And I don't think I've skied anywhere that the ski area doesn't remind skiers and riders that run designations are relative to the place they currently are skiing.

As a point of reference, take a look at some of these cool, color-coded-by-topography maps:
https://www.3dskimaps.com/

 

[Squaw]

Well, yes true. It's relative the other way as well. I've never been west except for Northstar at Tahoe and it seemed comparable in designations.

:ROTF:Please don't make Northstar your reference, for designations in the West! Locally we call it Flatstar. With sincere apologies to Northstar fans! It has MANY wonderful qualities, but does not represent the steeps and "black" runs (by any definition) of the Lake Tahoe area.

And those of us in the West know there is NOTHING like the "firm" slopes of the East. Must make assigning designations like comparing apples and oranges. This does make it hard for less-experienced skiers to know where to go.

Jen

 

[fatoots]

:ROTF:Please don't make Northstar your reference, for designations in the West! Locally we call it Flatstar. With sincere apologies to Northstar fans! It has MANY wonderful qualities, but does not represent the steeps and "black" runs (by any definition) of the Lake Tahoe area.


Jen

LOL. That is kinda what I heard. The village was really lovely though. It made for a nice event host. It's too bad I didn't have the opportunity to go explore Heavenly like some others in our group did.

I am going to Copper CO in April, and I can't wait! I've already added the resort to my ski widget. :D

 

[gardenmary]

As a beginner advancing to intermediate, this is actually a very informative thread. I tend to err on the side of caution, and have been known to be paranoid about how my actions affect other peoples' good times on the mountain - I always figured if I couldn't ski within my limits and according to the Code, I needed to hang out on the bunny slopes until I could. My thought is that even if I'm the skier further downhill, it's rude for me to change my traverse pattern so much that no one can figure out what I'm going to do next.

I only got in over my head once on our last trip, due to horrible visibility and a wrong turn. I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one whose legs refused to cooperate at that point! I did take off my skis and sidestep down to friendlier terrain, and was ok from there.

It should be noted my instructors at Snowbasin have all woven basic etiquette and safety into my lessons. Even still, we almost got annihilated 2 weeks ago by someone hurtling down a green run and around a near U-turn at far too high a speed. I'm still not sure how he missed us, but we agreed that his karma would catch up with him at some point.

I don't go up a lift unless I know it's green all the way down, or if I've been up with an instructor. I'm still too new at this to take those kinds of chances, and I'm more interested in enjoying myself!

 

[tamlyn]

I cannot see how the relative green,blue, black diamond, double black diamond can be a problem if used with some sense of caution. I am an expert skier. I have not only skied cloudspin at Whiteface but raced dh on it as well as racing all 4 disciplines on double black diamonds (sorry I brought up my racing career again, I know after 5 times it bothers at least one person but it is relevant). Yet every time I ski I always ski a blue run at a reasonable speed just to warm up. This is just a wise thing to do simply to prevent sprains, pulled muscles and generally loosen up. If I see a black that runs sown the lift lie I can pretty much tell what a black is on that hill, if the lift line is blue, same clue. From thee you can get a feel for the resort and after you ski a few blacks or if you are an intermediate some easy blues then try something harder. Talk to some of the other skiers you see with a seasons pass, or a ski patrol/instructor and just ask them what's the hardest run here, what's the most challenging blue or if you are a beginner looking to step up ask what the easiest blue is and try it after you warm up on a few green s. Even on your home mountain and you can easily ski the whole place, it still ca me a racer, jut try it a few times
Tami (gravity girl)

 

[Squaw]

If I see a black that runs sown the lift lie I can pretty much tell what a black is on that hill, if the lift line is blue, same clue.

I agree -- this is a pretty good rule of thumb.