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How to analyze resort snow reports

snoWYmonkey

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I am often the first one to be tempted by perfect photos of skiers from the various resorts, but my experience tells me I have to read the reports for a slightly clearer picture of actual conditions. This is especially true early season and late season, and I am sure all season in certain regions.

Please contribute your own approaches to this thread as it is only one take on the report reading skill.

Snow: I seldom look at total snow fall as this can be so misleading, and instead look at the actual snow depth. Is the depth at the top, the middle of the base? This can make a huge difference. This is especially true when it stayed cold up high, but early season snow fall melted away rapidly at the base. Another critical snow depth issue relates to each ski area. Some places have perfect low grass underneath the runs and 20 inches could be a great base for a given ski run or all runs. Other resorts, are mostly 2 to 5 foot boulders under the snow and I would not venture out on such runs without at least a 50 inch base depth.

Lifts open: This can often be an indication of conditions, especially if closures seem to apply to a certain elevation or aspect (north, south, etc). However, some resorts have lifts that almost never open even on good years, and yet other resorts have almost daily closures due to high winds. Closed lifts are not always an indication of porr snow conditions, but if the report does not indicate that multiple lifts are supposed to spin the next day, I would look into the reason why and assume inadequate snow.

Runs open: This is really the key piece of most snow reports. If only a few are open, then I assume that the conditions are less than ideal. I definitely pay attention once again to the part of the mountain that has closures. Is it up high, or down low? Is it on runs that are never groomed and don't have snowmaking? It is still fun to get out and ski, but a little bit of local knowledge may save me the bases of my skis if I know one area has tons of man made and another one will be hopping from patch to patch on the way back down the hill by the end of the season.

Grooming report: This is a good one to look at early and late in the season. Typically, only runs with enough snow will have the big heavy cats on them. If few runs seem to be open, then the groomed ones are likely to be the ones with the most snow and best conditions.

Weather: On the day of, it is always worthwhile to look at the current data, especially wind and wind direction as this can affect so many things, from lift closures, to deep powder deposits, to areas more prone to avalanches. This also impacts what I will wear layer wise. Some resorts have inversions on sunny days where it is significantly warmer up high. Though of course high winds can quickly negate the extra degrees of warmth. For weather data, I often try to go to the source, which in many places comes from the avalanche forecasting website's weather stations directly. I love getting my info from the source. It also helps to know where on the hill the stations actually are. Some resorts may call it the base temp, but in fact it could be a few hundred feet above a cold sink.

My routine is to check the avalanche forecast, the weather station 24 hr summaries and current conditions from the avalanche center weather stations before I leave home, then I check the resort report during the commute and then I look at the lift status throughout the day if applicable.
 

marzNC

Angel Diva
Good points!

What I've found is that paying attention to a resort where I go more regularly even when I'm not going to be there for a season or two is useful. These days I'm not constrained by school (daughter is in her 20s) or work schedule (retired) so the question becomes how best to plan for travel since I'm lucky to be able to take multiple ski trips each season. For those that involve flying, understanding when the off-piste conditions are most likely to be good is helpful.

These days, a resort's website may not be the easiest source of info. How a resort uses Instagram, Facebook, a resort-specific app, and a traditional website varies quite a bit.

For weather, I take the easy way out and subscribe to OpenSnow. However, for a favorite resort I've learned to find more locally based sources. OpenSnow does a good job out west but isn't as helpful for my home mountain in the southeast. Sometimes a website for a destination resort has links to weather resources.
 

RachelV

Administrator
Staff member
... OpenSnow does a good job out west but isn't as helpful for my home mountain in the southeast. ...

Do you say that because the forecasts are less accurate in the southest or because there's no Daily Snow writeup for that region or ... ?
 

snoWYmonkey

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Can’t add much to that excellent post, @snoWYmonkey, except to advise to check resort webcams as well. It can be socked in in the valleys and bluebird on the mountain, and vice versa!
So true! I also check them to gage wait times when the base of a lift is visible.
 

marzNC

Angel Diva
Do you say that because the forecasts are less accurate in the southest or because there's no Daily Snow writeup for that region or ... ?
For the southeast, the NC ski resorts aren't even considered by OpenSnow. The Mid-Atlantic region is being covered by a grad student in Oregon. His focus is on NY, PA, WV, and VA. Note that while western, central, and the NY Catskills fit in with the Mid-Atlantic, northern NY and the Adirondack mountains match up much more with New England (VT, NH, ME). Hard to say if MA gets much coverage by a forecaster.

What's even more noticeable in the past month is that while the Midwest Daily Snow includes graphs that forecast wet bulb temps for snowmaking, the Mid-A forecast has only been about natural snow. Fair to say that in the southeast, 100% snowmaking coverage is the only way ski resorts can be a viable businesses. The resorts that have survived weren't founded until the 1960s after snowguns were commercially available. Cataloochee, Sugar, Beech are quite popular not only with locals but also for people who drive from TN, Atlanta, and even Florida.

There has always been a western bias to OpenSnow. The NYSkiBlog guys don't consider OpenSnow that useful. Although I think OpenSnow is better for the northeast now compared to several years ago.
 

snoWYmonkey

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
@marzNC Super curious who Open Snow relies on in my area. We have two pros on each side that have their own reports. One more formal than the other. Mountain Weather is the formal one and he inject personal knowledge to the NWS forecasts. The other one, my favorite, is a gentleman on the idaho side, who plays the bagpipe, and binge shops for cheetos when there is any risk of weather related road closures. His facebook forecasts provide much needed levity.

We do have the wait times listed. I prefer what I see with my own eyes on the webcams.
 

marzNC

Angel Diva
@marzNC Super curious who Open Snow relies on in my area.
What the meteorologists at OpenSnow have been able to do in the last 5-6 years is develop their own weather modeling software for forecasting. They pull in info from essentially every major publicly available weather website. Only major destination resorts such as Jackson Hole, Aspen/Snowmass, Vail, or Palisades Tahoe have a separate Daily Snow. There are state and regional Daily Snow forecasts that are updated daily mid-season. During early season, updates may be once or twice a week until there is a major storm system worth discussing.

For snow depth, OpenSnow is simply pulling from publicly available data provided by the resorts.

Someone who is only interested in one or two resorts can probably always find a weather source that is better than OpenSnow. That said, there are resorts that simply use OpenSnow forecasts on their website, with attribution of course.
 

marzNC

Angel Diva
What the meteorologists at OpenSnow have been able to do in the last 5-6 years is develop their own weather modeling software for forecasting. They pull in info from essentially every major publicly available weather website. Only major destination resorts such as Jackson Hole, Aspen/Snowmass, Vail, or Palisades Tahoe have a separate Daily Snow. There are state and regional Daily Snow forecasts that are updated daily mid-season. During early season, updates may be once or twice a week until there is a major storm system worth discussing.
Here's the brief explanation from OpenSnow about how they started coming up with their forecasts in 2021.

"On July 1, 2021, we began updating the forecasts on OpenSnow with a proprietary blend of global data from the GFS (American), GDPS (Canadian), and ICON (German) weather models, along with high-resolution data from the HRRR (American) and HRDPS (Canadian) weather models.
. . ."
 

RachelV

Administrator
Staff member
@marzNC Super curious who Open Snow relies on in my area. We have two pros on each side that have their own reports. One more formal than the other. Mountain Weather is the formal one and he inject personal knowledge to the NWS forecasts. The other one, my favorite, is a gentleman on the idaho side, who plays the bagpipe, and binge shops for cheetos when there is any risk of weather related road closures. His facebook forecasts provide much needed levity.
...

The guy who does the writeups for your area is Alan Smith. He's great. Locally he writes for a site called Buckrail:

But yeah, for the forecasts we don't "rely" on anyone, per se. We run the same weather models that everyone else does, then layer in some proprietary changes that make things more accurate for mountainous regions and snowfall in general.

p.s. I work at OpenSnow! Weather is weather, and it's never gonna be perfect, but I can say with no reservations that all the meteorologists care deeply about being as accurate as they can, and are constantly talking and iterating to make the forecasts better. It's honestly the most caring and disciplined group of people I've ever worked with. It's been really eye opening to watch them all obsess about weather all day every day in Slack.

p.p.s. Sorry to hijack a very good thread with OpenSnow chatter!
 

marzNC

Angel Diva
But yeah, for the forecasts we don't "rely" on anyone, per se. We run the same weather models that everyone else does, then layer in some proprietary changes that make things more accurate for mountainous regions and snowfall in general.

p.s. I work at OpenSnow! Weather is weather, and it's never gonna be perfect, but I can say with no reservations that all the meteorologists care deeply about being as accurate as they can, and are constantly talking and iterating to make the forecasts better. It's honestly the most caring and disciplined group of people I've ever worked with. It's been really eye opening to watch them all obsess about weather all day every day in Slack.

p.p.s. Sorry to hijack a very good thread with OpenSnow chatter!
Cool!

Not really a hijack to me. Knowing what to trust on a resort's website and social media is something that can only be learned by checking other sources, assuming they exist. It is that much more important if a resort doesn't have webcams that show more than the base area.

Social media isn't necessarily the best source unless the poster has shown a long history of making useful statements. Plus everyone has a bias. A hard core skier who is willing to deal with skiing under snowmaking during early season may think it's worthwhile to head out for a few hours, while a cautious intermediate would be miserable. Conversely, a beginner/intermediate could have a wonderful morning when only groomed green/blue trails are open because the black+ terrain doesn't have enough coverage to be open safely.
 

snoWYmonkey

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
@RachelV What a cool job you have! You have the insider beta long before the rest of us do. I read the buckrail daily, and read his forecasts if they are posted. Cool to know about another source of local info. I think if I traveled more your website and subscription would make a ton of sense as finding that local info is time consuming at best. Must be pretty fun to watch those colored contour lines ahead of time, indicating potential inches or feet of snow! Where are you based out of?
 

santacruz skier

Angel Diva
@RachelV What a cool job you have! You have the insider beta long before the rest of us do. I read the buckrail daily, and read his forecasts if they are posted. Cool to know about another source of local info. I think if I traveled more your website and subscription would make a ton of sense as finding that local info is time consuming at best. Must be pretty fun to watch those colored contour lines ahead of time, indicating potential inches or feet of snow! Where are you based out of?
I agree! What a cool job!
 

marzNC

Angel Diva
I'm in Boulder, and Joel Gratz, who started OpenSnow, is also in Boulder, but the company is all remote and there's no office or anything. Everyone is in the US, and most of us are generally in the west. It is a cool job... I feel very lucky.
For those interested in Joel's story, check out the Storm Skiing podcast interview.

December 2022

I had been following Evan Thayer for Utah weather when Evan had his own blog. It was clear that maintaining the blog was becoming difficult. When he joined OpenSnow, it became clear that Joel had managed to come up with a way to monetize what he loved to do as a sustainable business. The annual subscription is well worth for anyone who travels out-of-state to ski for more than one trip a season.
 

marzNC

Angel Diva
In the last few weeks I've been checking resort websites in multiple regions to see if opening days have been announced. These days, for the latest updates it can be useful to have an Instagram or Facebook account. More and more resorts have come up with the own app. Plus Epic and Ikon have apps that have been adding resort-specific info.

Even with all those sources, details about snow forecasts, snow depth, lift status, or grooming status should always be taken with a bit of caution. Delays in an update by a person or a failure of a weather device can make the data available wrong.

The most old school "snow and lift report" I've come across was at Cannon in NH. A large trail map was mounted on a wall in a hallway near the cafeteria. That morning even the most diehard locals weren't bothering to take more than one run.

Cannon lift/trail status, December 18, 2018
Cannon snow report Dec 2018 - 1.jpeg
 

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