Does skiing come as naturally to you as other sports?

[altagirl]

Alta - one thing about skiing and the plateau has to partially be due to the speed/risk factor. You and I both started skiing as wee pups, and maybe can't relate. But crossing to the next level in skiing probably means taking risks that make you leave your comfort zone. I'm petrified of heights and that falling sensation, yet I feel so comfy on skis I don't even put height/falling together with skiing - even on a chairlift. I just go. But if I was intermediate at my ripe age of 40-something, it'd probably be pretty tough to let my body go straight down the fall-line and rely on a metal edge. Whereas, if I was a intermediate golfer, may have to do stuff that's new and different to get to the next level, but I wouldn't be 'scared' and putting my body into danger, kwim? I think that's a big difference between skiing and other sports.

Well- I'm learning speed skating right now - and I think with any sport where you're moving, you've got skills to learn that involve fear and committment. Doing those first crossovers in the corners on speed skates was terrifying and I felt almost paralyzed with fear (and that was going like 2mph). And a couple months later, now I'm flying around corners leaned over and I at least have moments where it's feeling pretty darned comfortable.

I don't doubt that it's coming easier to me because I can feel where some of the motions are similar to skiing and I'm generally comfortable with speed. I'm sure that most things are easier to learn if you start young. But I guess I just don't believe in focusing on limitations that you can't do anything about and may or may not exist.

If you tell yourself, I can't get comfortable with speed because I didn't learn it when I was young... well then it's definitely true. If you believe you can learn to get used to it - that's probably true as well.


I mean - when I had my first knee surgery - I had a lot of people tell me how my knees would never be the same and I'd probably never ski the same again. Which I ignored and ended up skiing better than ever after it (after each one, actually). Which is not to say that my knees are the same - they definitely have some issues and while I have to work around those issues, I've chosen to ignore the percieved limitation and decided that I can learn to ski better if not harder, and I think that helps a great deal. I think it's one of those types of things. Sure, it might not be as easy to learn to be comfortable with speed when you're older. But it's not impossible unless you believe it is.

Basically - I do get what you're saying. I know in reality, everything is easier if you learned it when you're young - especially where fear is involved. But I personally believe those types of 'facts' are best ignored. ;)

 

[abc]

I think one can have a happy medium. You can enjoy both "happy mediocracy" and improving at the same time.

Like, I'm never going to be a great skier (not that I'm "great" in anything, though certainly "better/more accomplished" in many other sports). So I stop beating myself for not being great. But that doesn't stop me from improving nonetheless. I'd say, I focus on going from "suck a lot" to "suck a little less"?

And guess what? After a lot of those "suck a little less", I actually don't suck that badly after a while!

So, altagirl is absolutely right. Set a lot of smaller goals, make them real small and achievable. One day, you may realize you've gone from a "happy intermediate" to a "happy advanced intermediate" without working too hard! All the while, enjoy your "mediocracy" along the way, and it's just a different level of mediocrocy!

 

[toughgirl]

I'm sure this will get taken the wrong way... (And I know you're just repeating what was said above... and I can totally identify with what you're feeling...)

But I think "embracing your averageness" is a really sad statement, because it sounds like "I give up trying to improve".

Anyway - I think unachieved goals are better than having no goals at all. Maybe that's just me...

I will say, yes I am taking this the wrong way. You are ASSUMING that embracing my averagness means I'm "giving up" or "setting no goals." Thats just not true. In fact I plan on taking individual lessons this winter. It does however mean that I can be happy with myself and my ability and if I make improvements awesome, but that I don't have to be on a racing team or skiing every black diamond out there.

I think it is sad that we are so tough on each other as women and that we have to be the supreme beings of all things. Maybe I'm happy with me.

 

[abc]

I think it is sad that we are so tough on each other as women and that we have to be the supreme beings of all things. Maybe I'm happy with me.

I'm with you there 100%! That's a great attitude you have!

I will say, yes I am taking this the wrong way. You are ASSUMING that embracing my averagness means I'm "giving up" or "setting no goals." Thats just not true.

toughgirl, I believe altagirl meant well.

Yes, she ASSUMED, incorrectly. But she's not preaching at you. For some of us, me in particular perhaps. Her warning and nudging is well appreciated.

Unlike you, I have a rather un-competitive personality. My parents are both quite passive personality. The competitive gene must have never existed in either family so I was totally un-ambitious, despite having reasonable natural talent both atheletically and acedemically.

Instead of being too hard on myself, I suffer more from not pushing enough to achieve my best. So for me, I found altagirls constant nudging, while un-settling at times, a good reminder of what I should watch out for.

So, please forgive some of us who may have taken it differently. It's not personal. I'm sure altagirl didn't mean it personally about you! We each have different personality and different outlook in life. Sometimes we looking at the same thing but end up having very different prospective. :p

 

[altagirl]

I will say, yes I am taking this the wrong way. You are ASSUMING that embracing my averagness means I'm "giving up" or "setting no goals." Thats just not true. In fact I plan on taking individual lessons this winter. It does however mean that I can be happy with myself and my ability and if I make improvements awesome, but that I don't have to be on a racing team or skiing every black diamond out there.

Well, all I can say is that I tried my best to explain that that's exactly what I meant - that you should have goals (and reasonable ones too) - whatever they are is totally up to you and shouldn't necessarily have anything to do with competition, which it sounds like you do. Which is great!

It's just that knowing that, I don't understand why you would want to say that you're embracing averageness. My personal feeling is that when people DO embrace averageness, they are needlessly limiting themselves, and I would encourage you to do avoid doing so. But obviously you can and will make your own choices.

And I know I'm a pain in the butt and push other women to improve - because it's exactly how I want to be treated by other women. Maybe that's weird, but the women I love biking and skiing with don't let me make excuses. It's not easy to hear sometimes, but I love them dearly for it and know they have my best interests at heart. Without appropriate stress, you never grow stronger!

Anyway - I'll quit pestering! (Well, for now... :duck

 

[Jilly]

I think that I agree with Altagirl. I make some kind of goal each season or even a weekend of skiing. It might making that one run that you haven't tried before. Or it could getting my level 3 instructors. This year its not the level 3, but I'm going to work on things for next year. That is a long term goal. Short term goals whether they are big or small are important. It might be linking turns in rythem. It might be learning how to "hockey stop".

On that note, I love teaching our local "ladies night". As I've explained to many of them - you don't think you're improving, but you are. They can't see it yet as they haven't had that "ah" moment. But I can.

I started skiing very young. I've always loved the movement in motion. It can be a dance with the mountain if its a good day!

 

[MaineSkiLady]

Really interesting foray into the subjects of sports psychology and basic motivation:
Altagirl’s references to what’s commonly called “visualization” (which works–all sports psychologists use it) and Mary Lou’s references to “muscle memory” (very much in play on everyone’s first day back out there!).

In terms of motivation, everyone has a different set of parameters at which they optimally perform. What’s written as “averageness” really only refers to the fact that an individual may in fact have a different threshold for self-imposed advancement – and would really prefer to take the sport at a different rate. In other words, it isn’t altogether necessary for some to “push it” ALL the time.

Others thrive on this and continually strive for certain goals.

I’ve seen adult beginners make enormous (sometimes unfathomable!) leaps in ability in just a few short years. It isn’t entirely about when you start – it’s more how much of your time and effort you put into it.

Case in point: many years ago I watched a 3rd year skier (adult, also an instructor) go from good to great in 2 years and attain Level II certification (the skiing aspect of which is quite demanding, as many know).

Old and somewhat timeless saying about skiing:
“It’s all about the mileage.”
Someone who is able to get out there and ski day in and day out for several seasons is going to inevitably make huge strides (even if picking up a bad habit or two along the way – easily resolved). The muscle memory is there.

Second: it’s also about motivation and commitment.

And it requires none of the above to just get out there and enjoy a mountain and the snow and the forward momentum....

....but it’s my opinion that it’s wayyyyy more enjoyable when the skills are attained and it all - for lack of a better term - "comes together."

 

[Kimmyt]

I am with some of the other ladies, in that I am completely mediocre at most sports I take part in. However, I don't think there's anything wrong with realizing that. Unlike the other ladies, though, I haven't yet achieved peace with that, and I am always getting to my breaking point where I just want to throw my running shoes/bike/climbing shoes in the nearest river and just STOP.

But the thing is, I don't. I never stop. I never quit. I'm like a damn dog, holding onto something so tightly with my jaws and just not letting go.

With skiing, though, I don't feel that way. I know I'm mediocre. I know there are lots of things I have problems with, and I might never get to be able to ski like some of the folks I wish I could emulate on the hill, but I work really hard at improving, and I watch and watch people, and I take lessons, and I have gotten so much better, and there is not a day that I hate skiing and want to throw in the boots. And even the worst day skiing is still a day skiing and hearing the wind whistle and feeling the rhythm of turns.

Now, having said that, the reason I get so frustrated with myself about my mediocrity, is that I'm competitive, which is pretty silly when you're perfectly average at most things. But that's just how I am. My fiance has told me multiple times that I'm only hard on myself because of that competitiveness, and he's always trying to tell me that even though I think I suck, I'm more like average to slightly above at most of my sports. But I do work for it, and nothing ever seems easy.

Anyway, I understand and envy the ladies that are at peace with their skill level, I don't think that means at all that they are not pushing themselves in their own ways. I know that while I think I suck at climbing, that doesn't stop me from working certain moves, pushing myself on certain routes and generally focusing on little things that are slowly making me less and less mediocre. But I don't know if I'll ever be considered GOOD, you know, and I'm okay with that.

I really think though that some day I could be a good skiier. Maybe not an expert, but good would be doable, maybe in a few, ten years?

 

[pinto]

I really think though that some day I could be a good skiier. Maybe not an expert, but good would be doable, maybe in a few, ten years?

It only takes 10,000 hours!

:duck:

cf epicski

 

[abc]

I think it got a bit lost in the motivation front, but what I was originally trying to say about sport is, it provides a lot of intermediate goals for us to achieve.

My point being, achieving those little goals make us feel GOOD! That's why we do some of these things, right?

 

[SnowHot]

It only takes 10,000 hours!

:duck:

cf epicski

 

[altagirl]

I am with some of the other ladies, in that I am completely mediocre at most sports I take part in. However, I don't think there's anything wrong with realizing that. Unlike the other ladies, though, I haven't yet achieved peace with that, and I am always getting to my breaking point where I just want to throw my running shoes/bike/climbing shoes in the nearest river and just STOP.

But the thing is, I don't. I never stop. I never quit. I'm like a damn dog, holding onto something so tightly with my jaws and just not letting go.

I have to say - with biking - I felt like I spent an eternity at this stage. There was a period of several years where I was just learning and basically only riding with guys who had a decade of experience on me. And there was so much frustration and agony and self criticism that looking back it's hard to even imagine how I came out the other side. Not that I don't ever have bad days now... but phew - it used to be non-stop. (My husband has also stated that I'm the most competitive person he's ever met, FWIW).

Anyway - I read what you wrote there and can just feel that frustration - and luckily at this point it's more that it brings up memoris from the past. So the good news is that there is light at the end of the tunnel. And MSL has me pegged, because to be honest some sports psychology certainly helped me with my progress. Because at one point it was ALL struggle - I was setting unrealistic goals and being too hard on myself. And I've changed a bit in creating more realistic goals and making sure I incorporate both stress and recovery into what I'm doing. I'm really not saying you should just push, push, push 100% of the time - incorporating mental and physical recovery days is important in any training plan. (Even extremely unstructured training plans!)

So don't give up - just work on finding a balance point in your forward momentum, so to speak. :D And do know that your struggle will pay off one of these days! I was talking to my husband recently and said something about how horrible some of those rides were back in the day and he said - yeah, but pushing through all of that is what got you to where you are now - so it was worth it, right? And it's totally true. Plus, if it all came easy it wouldn't be worth much.

 

[pinto]

I started skiing very young. I've always loved the movement in motion. It can be a dance with the mountain if its a good day!

I love this.

To answer the original question, yes, skiing comes about the same as pretty much everything else (except basketball ... never clicked with me).

I recently figured out how much motion is important to me. I've been trying to take up golf, but I just don't get into it. I'm good at it, but I don't have any desire to spend the time. I had the epiphany last year, at the driving range, "This would be a lot more fun if I could run while I was hitting it." (Cue "Happy Gilmore")

It then occurred to me that that is where I get off: doing the skill while I'm moving, preferably fairly quickly. Soccer, tennis, skiing are my main things. I have posted before that I know I would love hockey, because it combines all my skill sets. (I would probably love mountain biking, but I am uncomfortable not having my feet grounded. Plus, I used to road bike, but I never crashed, and then I was freaking out about never crashing so all I did was worry about crashing, and eventually I practically quit biking. I don't mind crashing on a ski slope, but .... anyway .... whatever ... I have enough hobbies as it is.)

Skiing doesn't have the eye-hand stuff I like (neither did soccer), but I get enough of that with tennis.

 

[abc]

Skiing doesn't have the eye-hand stuff I like (neither did soccer), but I get enough of that with tennis.

It just occurred to me...

I wonder how many of us here have better feet-eye coordination than hand-eye coordination!!!

I took to soccer very quickly and naturally. Although I never play very well, nor did I keep at it for long. I really, really enjoyed it when I played. I seem to be able to manage running and kicking at the same time without much trouble at all. And I was able to control the ball with my feet by simply trying a few times and got it just right...

A lot of my hobbies are also lower body oriented. Cycling, skiing, hiking, all lower body. Swimming, I do poorly. Only manage to float. I didn't "take to" kayaking until I learn to incorperate torso rotation into my paddle stroke. While rolling a kayak, which is mostly torso action, I "got it" in a few hours!

 

[cinnabon]

Alta - one thing about skiing and the plateau has to partially be due to the speed/risk factor. You and I both started skiing as wee pups, and maybe can't relate. But crossing to the next level in skiing probably means taking risks that make you leave your comfort zone. I'm petrified of heights and that falling sensation, yet I feel so comfy on skis I don't even put height/falling together with skiing - even on a chairlift. I just go. But if I was intermediate at my ripe age of 40-something, it'd probably be pretty tough to let my body go straight down the fall-line and rely on a metal edge. Whereas, if I was a intermediate golfer, may have to do stuff that's new and different to get to the next level, but I wouldn't be 'scared' and putting my body into danger, kwim? I think that's a big difference between skiing and other sports.

This is so true! I learned when I was 14 and fearless. I didn't get to go all that much, but I completely loved it, and tried so hard to get better. I broke through mental barriers when I was a kid that I would never have been able to do as an adult. I became acutely aware of this when I took up snowboarding in my 40s (ouch!) I don't believe I will ever feel as natural on the board - I have huge fear issues on that thing! Although I do enjoy it enough to stick with it.

So skiing did come to me pretty easily when I was young, in that I wasn't afraid, but I wasn't very good technique wise. it was not until well into adulthood, after shaped skis came out that my ability level really took off. Part of what did this is for me is for the last 10+ years or so I committed myself to skiing as much as possible - 30-40 days per season, which really is a lot when you ski in VT and live in NJ! So after all this, it comes naturally to me now - it's about as natural as walking. But this was a result of really, really wanting it, and devoting myself to the sport. I wish I could say it was natural talent, but it's mostly the result of effort. So I don't think I did a very good job of answering the question!

 

[pinto]

It just occurred to me...

I wonder how many of us here have better feet-eye coordination than hand-eye coordination!!!

I took to soccer very quickly and naturally. Although I never play very well, nor did I keep at it for long. I really, really enjoyed it when I played. I seem to be able to manage running and kicking at the same time without much trouble at all. And I was able to control the ball with my feet by simply trying a few times and got it just right...

A lot of my hobbies are also lower body oriented. Cycling, skiing, hiking, all lower body. Swimming, I do poorly. Only manage to float. I didn't "take to" kayaking until I learn to incorperate torso rotation into my paddle stroke. While rolling a kayak, which is mostly torso action, I "got it" in a few hours!

I think that makes a lot of sense.

I also think some of it (here) might just be a cultural thing where women didn't grow up with the American boys' amount of participation in eye-hand sports (football, baseball, basketball). I'm not talking about organized sport, but about dad taking Junior out in the backyard to play catch or to the driveway to shoot hoops.

I'm not saying that no girls did that (because I'm one who did), but I am fairly sure that dad would be a lot more persistent with the son. ie, Junior isn't that great at hitting the wiffle ball, but dad makes sure he eventually gets it, then it's more fun, so Junior likes it after all.

Meanwhile, if Sally isn't having a great time, or gets popped in the eye when the ball misses her glove, it's probably more acceptable to quit and go play dolls or something.

All huge generalizations, but I know a lot of women who think they really suck at eye-hand sports, women who are really great athletes in other ways (swimming, running, skiing, all that stuff). I just think they never took enough time to develop it when they were kids.

 

[abc]

I think that makes a lot of sense.

I also think some of it (here) might just be a cultural thing where women didn't grow up with the American boys' amount of participation in eye-hand sports (football, baseball, basketball). I'm not talking about organized sport, but about dad taking Junior out in the backyard to play catch or to the driveway to shoot hoops.

I'm not saying that no girls did that (because I'm one who did), but I am fairly sure that dad would be a lot more persistent with the son. ie, Junior isn't that great at hitting the wiffle ball, but dad makes sure he eventually gets it, then it's more fun, so Junior likes it after all.

Meanwhile, if Sally isn't having a great time, or gets popped in the eye when the ball misses her glove, it's probably more acceptable to quit and go play dolls or something.

All huge generalizations, but I know a lot of women who think they really suck at eye-hand sports, women who are really great athletes in other ways (swimming, running, skiing, all that stuff). I just think they never took enough time to develop it when they were kids.

Good point!

Now we have more understanding of how muscles and ability developes, that makes a lot of sense. In my case, although my Dad was a sportsman ("play every ball that's round"), my Mom wasn't too supportive of me playing sport. Also, living in the middle of a city means I don't get to play in the backyard. So, despite my Dad's support (and probably some sporty genes), I end up doing sports that's available, which didn't happened to require too much hand-eye coordination (track and field). Hence probably that part of me isn't as well developed as I could have. (Dad was slightly disappointed I didn't win every sport in school like he did, but was nonetheless supportive)

I noticed as I picked up more other sport later, while I didn't exactly suck (most of the time not), the area I usually shine are in speed and endurance. Exactly the area I did a lot as a young kid! Some even theorize as girls are allowed to play more like boys these days, maybe even the strength gap between adult men and women would get narrower too!

 

[altagirl]

I don't know where I fall in that theory. I mostly played softball as a kid - I wasn't all that good at it, but I played a good amount and played catch and we had a badminton/volleyball net in our yard. I don't think I have particularly good hand/eye coordination though. Then again... I've needed glasses since a young age as well, and had astigmatism and all of that so maybe part of that is physical as well?

I started skiing around age 10 - so that's pretty young, but not nearly as young as some people. But I was ice skating younger than that so maybe that helped as well with the foot/edge coordination. The funny thing is that with biking - I learned to ride a bike at a young age, but never even considered doing anything other than riding up and down the street - to the lake, to my friends houses. Even the idea of riding off a curb - to be honest, never occurred to me! Which is pretty funny now. That kills me sometimes - that I never learned a single bike skill as a kid other than just general ability to stay upright and ride down a flat street!

 

[pinto]

I don't know where I fall in that theory. I mostly played softball as a kid - I wasn't all that good at it, but I played a good amount and played catch and we had a badminton/volleyball net in our yard. I don't think I have particularly good hand/eye coordination though. Then again... I've needed glasses since a young age as well, and had astigmatism and all of that so maybe part of that is physical as well?

That's a really good point. The eye is a big part of eye-hand coordination (duh). I still have 20-20 vision, and it was better than that as a kid. I can tell that I am starting to get a tiny glitch in the adjustment of near to far vision, but otherwise my eyes have been perfect.

I know that in tennis and baseball, for example -- service return and batting, specifically, where balls are coming at you at 90+ mph -- they talk about how important vision is.

But vision isn't the only thing. You realize how much you use your other senses for depth perception when you lose one of them. Playing tennis when there is noise loud enough to mask the sound of the ball is a very strange experience. It isn't just vision that tells you what path the ball is taking.

 

[MaryLou]

I think that makes a lot of sense.

I also think some of it (here) might just be a cultural thing where women didn't grow up with the American boys' amount of participation in eye-hand sports (football, baseball, basketball). I'm not talking about organized sport, but about dad taking Junior out in the backyard to play catch or to the driveway to shoot hoops.

I'm not saying that no girls did that (because I'm one who did), but I am fairly sure that dad would be a lot more persistent with the son. ie, Junior isn't that great at hitting the wiffle ball, but dad makes sure he eventually gets it, then it's more fun, so Junior likes it after all.

Meanwhile, if Sally isn't having a great time, or gets popped in the eye when the ball misses her glove, it's probably more acceptable to quit and go play dolls or something.

All huge generalizations, but I know a lot of women who think they really suck at eye-hand sports, women who are really great athletes in other ways (swimming, running, skiing, all that stuff). I just think they never took enough time to develop it when they were kids.

My FIL is from Hungary, where soccer rules. DH says growing up they never played catch - his Dad could not throw a ball. He said they'd go to parks and other kids would be playing catch, he and family would be kicking and heading soccer balls lol.

I don't know if the gender generalization fits. I was an athletic kid, always played sports, just those that required you do something precise with hand and equipment was always trouble. I biked, waterskied all summer, skied all winter, ran track, attempted to be decent at basketball lol... Not sure if I have better foot coordination, or just general core balance or something. I can thread a needle with my skis, but don't ask me to do it with a piece of thread! (I also have vision issues, which could have been an issue, but I don't think so...as long as I have glasses on I'm fine).