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Blizzard Cheyenne-- regret?

Pequenita

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Rocker helps initiate turns more when there's snow on the ground, which I know sounds ridiculous on a skiing forum. Like, when you are on powder, on a rockered ski, your tips are already up, which helps a lot with turns. But on the type of hardpack that is so common on the east, that sensation of "where's the edge, where's the edge, where's the edge, oh there it is" is common on tip rockered skis. That's why rockered skis feel like they ski short.

I think possibly the skis are too short for you...
 

Jilly

Moderator
Staff member
My 88 temptations are 162. I'm 5'4, but 155lbs. It has a turn radius of 16.5m. The 80 is 16.8m. Not much different.
 

lisamamot

Angel Diva
What length did you get in the Rossi? The Temptation 80 168 might be a fine length, but any shorter and you will feel it with the significant tip and tail rocker. I expect you need more ski on the snow; you can accomplish that with more length in a rockered ski or going for a more traditional ski profile with very little rocker.
 
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mustski

Angel Diva
Do the temptations have tail rocker? I didn't think so :noidea: If they are tip only, the key is a long enough ski to allow effective edging.
 

Jilly

Moderator
Staff member
Yes they do. But the whole ski is stiffer. The total rocker is only 30% . If you look at the bottom of the ski the arrows are where the rocker starts.
 

jerseyski

Certified Ski Diva
Well thanks everyone for the explanation. I wish the guy at the ski store was as knowledgeable because he recommended and even shorter ski! So I came how with a 160!! I'm going back tomorrow and it guess I will tell them I want a traditional camber ski. If anyone has any suggestions please let me know no do not like the feel of the rocker at all. I feel less in control and completely off. I can't believe they would give me a shorter ski.
 

mustski

Angel Diva
160 is way too short! I ski a 163 (early rise tip which is minimal) and I'm 5'2" currently at 140lbs.
@Jilly see I learn something new everyday! I assumed that as a stellar Eastern ski, they must have a flat tail! Never assume.
 

climbingbetty

Angel Diva
Well thanks everyone for the explanation. I wish the guy at the ski store was as knowledgeable because he recommended and even shorter ski! So I came how with a 160!! I'm going back tomorrow and it guess I will tell them I want a traditional camber ski. If anyone has any suggestions please let me know no do not like the feel of the rocker at all. I feel less in control and completely off. I can't believe they would give me a shorter ski.

Just my .02 cents, but I think you should give a rockered ski a try. But in the correct size for you. There is nothing wrong with rockered skis per se and most skis on the market today have some degree of rocker. I think you're going to unduly limit yourself and potentially miss out on some really fun skis by just saying 'no' to any rocker outright.

From what I can tell in this thread (mind you, we haven't seen you ski), I think the bigger problem is not rocker in your skis, but this shop giving you skis that are far too short. You got the Blizzards in 163 and from your stats, I would think the 170 would be a better choice for you. The Temptations they gave you a 160 and you should be on at least the 168. Get the right sized Temptation and give them a try. A lot of Divas around here have, and love, their Temptation series skis, and I dare say its a solid ski, so I wouldn't be too quick to discount it just because it has a little rocker.

Also, go check out the thread in the Ski Gear forum titled "Kim Reichlem on Ski Length." There's an epidemic of Dudes At Ski Shops who wanna sell the 'lil'lady' a 'lil'ski.' Ignore them and their sexist stupidity. (I believe you said earlier this is the first ski you've personally owned- they are probably wrongly interpreting that as you're a beginner.) The quote from Kim in that thread will also give you some good ballpark markers for how long your ski should be. From what you have told us previously about your ability, those puppies should be at least to your eyebrow, maybe even as tall as you depending on the amount of rocker. If they hand you anything shorter, hand them right back to them.
 

lisamamot

Angel Diva
My teen daughter has last year's Temptation 78 158 and she is 5'8" 115#; they are too short for her and she is losing stability especially at speed (I bought them when she was closer to 5'5" and missed the upcoming growth spurt....arghhh).

Stats on the Temptation 80
https://www.skis.com/Rossignol-Temp...hir-110-Bindings-2015/351612P,default,pd.html

The Temptation 80 168 could be a good option for you. If they will let you try that as well and say yay or nay, I would give it a whirl. If you decide to go to something with a flat tail and only a bit of tip rocker, you may like the Volkl Chiara (77mm under foot) or Volkl Charisma (79mm under foot). With a flat tail the longest length is shorter (162/163 respectively); I have not been on the Chiara, but demoed the 2015 Charisma 163 and it has a traditional, very stable feel, and an amazing edge bite on the ice. It may very well be the feel you prefer.
 

jerseyski

Certified Ski Diva
You know, the ski instructor told me the same thing and the guy at the ski store said, "You can't listen to those instructors."

I will be back there asap to switch them out. The sad thing is I explained the instability problem, the turning issue, what the instructor said, I told him I fell twice (I haven't fallen skiing in at least 10 years), and I guess he didn't listen to anything I said. Ugh. Thank you ladies, I appreciate all the time you took to advise me and help me!! Xxoo
 

Jilly

Moderator
Staff member
You've got 2 instructors, Climbing Betty and myself, telling you you'll be fine. But get the longer version. And as I said the rocker starts at the arrows on the base. It's not very much really. If you want to see rocker look at the Soul 7!
 

Pequenita

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I don't think the turning issue is necessarily the ski, though, in the sense that it's a bad tune or anything. The more I read your posts in this thread, jerseyski, I think that there's something going on in your technique with respect to turning that you could hide with a traditional camber or longer ski that is showing up when you are on a shorter, rockered ski. But that panicky feeling you are describing when you begin to turn and don't feel the edge is pretty common when you're used to a ski without a rocker tip.

Good luck!
 

bounceswoosh

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Can you go to a different shop? I hate to see a place like this making money.
 

climbingbetty

Angel Diva
You know, the ski instructor told me the same thing and the guy at the ski store said, "You can't listen to those instructors."

OMG! Seriously??? What an a$$hat. Always give more weight to the opinion of someone who has actually seen you ski. Even over what you read here. 'Cuz here's the thing- we can suggest things to look at or to try, but we can only give you feedback based on what you tell us. We can't see you ski to get a more objective view of the problem (that said, even instructors have their own biases.) And Shop Dude is even worse. He seems determined to hear everything you say through HIS incredibly biased (dare I say, sexist?) filter. Caveat: I have learned to ask much better questions, and therefore, get much better answers, from the wonderful advice & suggestions I have received from other Divas. I have also learned how to more effectively describe a problem I am having and get assistance with said problem!

I don't know the degree of training of your instructor. I will say that that could be a variable as well. If you got an instructor like me, who is still new to instructing, then yeah, maybe you need to take their suggestions on the right ski for you with a grain of salt. From the way you describe your skiing however, I highly doubt you would have gotten a new instructor. Was your instructor PSIA-certified? Do you know to what level? It can take YEARS of training and hard work to get to Level 2 or 3 certification and along the way, you do have to take classes to learn how best to teach people, how to diagnosis their movement issues and ways to begin to fix/address it. I HIGHLY doubt Shop Dude has had any such training...

So there you go, don't trust Shop Dude.

Also, read some of the other threads around here, especially that Kim Reichlem one I mentioned earlier. Seriously, its an epidemic of Shop Dudes arrogantly sticking ladies on skis too short for them. That thread is FULL of stories of other Divas who know they ski much better on a longer ski then is 'recommended.'

I would also second @Pequenita's suggestion that their might be a lurking technique issue. I already communicated the story of my DH's bad day on the new skis last week. They were 10cm longer, probably have a crappy tune, but also have traditional camber and no rocker whatsoever. With the shorter 150cm skis, he was able to smooth over some of technique issues- old habits from BITD when he skied the straight skis. The 160s skis did not let him get away with this. Granted, there are some other variables at play here, but my point is even a traditionally cambered ski might not solve all of the issues you're having. Ideally, I want to get him a ski with at least an early-rise tip for easier turn initiation. Probably something around ~160 so that its a little longer than the 150, but not quite as unwieldy as the 160, for him. (As an aside, ladies have a hard time finding skis long enough for them- my poor hubby has the opposite problem, it seems they don't make men's skis in shorter lengths! I might end up getting him a woman's ski, just to have more to choose from!) Many of the Divas here have mentioned that the 'ski length calculators' can be just plain wrong, particularly for women who are advanced skiers, tall for their weight or heavy for their height (all that muscle weights a lot!!) So now I'm beginning to wonder about the lengths of the rentals you have used in the past. Its entirely possible that the folks at the rental shop are using one of these calculators and have been giving you skis too short for you all this time. And because they are too short, you are able to overcome some technique issues with them anyway. Just another thought...
 
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Jilly

Moderator
Staff member
Length, like the guy on the weekend that wanted to put me on the 158 Black Pearl. I insisted on the 166.

As for the rocker, I de-tuned my edges on my traditional cambered to skis to the point of the first arrow on my Temptations, so didn't really notice any difference in the initiation, just the width to get the skis on edge.
 

jerseyski

Certified Ski Diva
Omg ladies what a nightmare today. I went to the ski shop to discuss the return policy for the Rossis and the guy tried to save me swap it out for a smaller ski?! I ended up returning the skis because the guy was so horrible I just wanted to leave. He said:

1- I'm sick of ski instructors thinking they lie about skis
2- If I couldn't ski the Cheyenne I just don't know how to ski.
3- You need a shorter ski length with a rocker tip
4- Rocker tip is easier to maneuver in icy terrain
5- ALL skis now have rocker tip and there are no skis left with traditional camber
6- Who is giving me this information?
7- He skies 55 days a season
8- I should rent a pair of "crummy" skis or he can sell the rentals to me
9- I should be skiing around a 154
10- He skies 55 days a season (he said that a lot)

I then got all of my money back and went to a different shop. The guy at the 2nd spot told me everything that you ladies did and suggested an Élan Black Magic or an Atomic Pure but I was so nervous to buy another ski I just left.

Also, I found one of my favorite seasonal rentals by an old pic and it was a Salomon Scrambler lol. Maybe I can find a ski that sort of mimics that. It had no rocker and was a 72 waist. I skied that in a 160 I believe.
 

climbingbetty

Angel Diva
OMG!!! What a douche!!!!! Glad you got your money back and went elsewhere as well!! I find it particularly interesting that he questioned where you were getting your information- classic maneuver of someone who thinks they know everything, but doesn't and can't admit it.

My DH always says about climbers, "you can have 20 years experience, or you can have 1 year experience, 20 times."

Sounds like this guy has had one day's of experience, 55 times. :frusty:

On the bright side- now you can DEMO!!! Try as many skis as you can, give 'em a ride and see how they feel. Pick which ever one you have the most fun on. Remember to try the same ski in a couple lengths and as much as you can, try it in different conditions. This would be great way to test some rockered skis and you can see if you really hate all rocker or if there is a certain amount of it that will work for you.
 
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