Question: Advanced or Expert - Not Sure

[sdskiqueen]

I have always struggled with answering the question: What level of skiier are you? I think it's because I don't want to overstate my abilities, but I'm never sure how to reply. When have you crossed over from advanced to expert? I'm never sure. So what do you think?
It wasn't until I moved to from San Diego to Colorado 6-7 years ago did I really start to improve in my skiing because I just simply got a hell of a lot more time on the slopes. I also shortened my skis as well. When I first learned to ski, my boyfriend couldn't wait for me to get on the longest skis I could because he told me good skiiers skied longer skis - I think he just had a thing about length, like most men - if you know what I mean!
Anyway, I'm totally comfortable on anything groomed - blues or blacks, doesn't matter. Although I love the bumps on blues or blacks, I'm much more fluid on the blues. I don't look quite as fluid on the blacks - however, I have flashes of greatness from time to time and I surprise myself. Last year I finally got a chance to really spend some time in powder and I'm getting comfortable enough that on an open run without any obstacles I'm having fun. Getting better in the glades and don't have a problem in the steeps - again as long as there's nothing in the way. Have made my way down some narrow double black chutes at Steamboat and had a blast.
All that being said, would I be considered advanced? I really don't think I can categorize myself as an expert or can I?

 

[Pequenita]

In my head, an expert is someone who makes all terrain - ice, pow, slush, corn, steep, groomer, bumps, off piste - seem easy, but there's really limited occasion to go around categorizing skiers in such broad terms.

 

[abc]

In what context do you need to define your skill level?

That might dictate how you should define yourself.

 

[altagirl]

In what context do you need to define your skill level?

That might dictate how you should define yourself.

That's exactly what I was thinking.

Yes- if you're just going by definition, for your own personal use- I'd say expert is once you feel solid on everything. Powder, bumps, groomed, trees, whatever.

But if you use that definition to pick what group to be in for a lesson, for example - you are probably under-selling yourself.

And then there are things like guided skiing groups. I personally don't do bumps - it hurts my knees so I don't work on it much. But in powder and such, I'm pretty solid. So if I was going heli skiing, I'm not going to factor in whether or not I ski bumps well - who cares? I'd say I'm an expert. But if I was an east coast bump skier or racer who is an expert in your disciplines but has never skied powder before - you probably don't want to classify yourself as an expert if you're going heli-skiing.

So the answer is - it depends.

 

[mollmeister]

^^^^ Pretty much exactly what she said.

My personal definition of expert applies to the friends who are much better than I am, who make absolutely everything look easy-peasy.

But some people, in some situations, might consider me an expert.

Don't sell yourself short in lesson/group situations, particularly if you like to be pushed a bit. . . but you might not compare to lifelong racers/competitive skiers, if you kwim.

 

[SnowHot]

Altagirl explained it very well.

I've been in expert groups in clinics but I'm not an expert skier. Adventurous? Yes! Advanced? Yes! Expert.........

 

[RachelV]

I don't know if I'll ever think of myself as an expert skier. In my mind, "expert" means "the best", and there are always going to be people better than me -- will I ever really be able to honestly say I'm in the top X% of ALL skiers? Who knows. I only just talked myself into calling myself "advanced" this past season.

 

[Pequenita]

I only just talked myself into calling myself "advanced" this past season.

Dude, I don't know what took you so long - you're more fluid and gutsy than me, and I have no problem calling myself advanced.

 

[sdskiqueen]

I have to agree with you on that. To me, expert means someone that can ski anywhere in all conditions - someone who could join the ski patrol. A couple of years ago I took a ski cat to some of the outer bowls at Keystone. Was having a good time, no problems. Was making an easy turn on easy powder when I went down - my ACL just went in my left knee. Shame of all shame, I had to have the ski patrol take me down because I knew something happened, but wasn't sure what. The ski patrol guy was filling out a form and listed me as an "expert". I certainly didn't feel like an expert at that moment - but I thought if they think I'm an "expert" who am I to argue. Thankfully there are great orthopedic surgeons in Colorado who do a ton of ACL repairs and I'm good as new.
Then, there's all your friends who tell you what a great skiier you are. I'm with you, I don't feel I can call myself an expert when I'm still being challenged every time I ski.

 

[abc]

Those who ski well enough to be expert skiers tend NOT to call themselves experts. Not because they're being modest, just they know there're always more challenging terrain they can't handle. There're always steeper slopes even the "expert" can't handle and only the "extreme skiers" will risk their life and limb to tackle. So it's a continium that's not easy to define.

There're a lot of "advanced" skiers. It ranges from those can ski 40 degree slope but not jumping off cliffs intentionally, to those who had just got down their first black without falling.

Just like anyone who had skied 2 days and their first blue would stop calling themselves beginers. There're as few "beginer" skier as there're "expert" skiers.

 

[skigrl27]

Then, there's all your friends who tell you what a great skiier you are. I'm with you, I don't feel I can call myself an expert when I'm still being challenged every time I ski.

hmmm...I don't know.

Tiger Woods is an expert golfer, but he is challenged every time he plays, right? You will always be challenged on the slopes - heck, that's kinda why we're out there, right? There will always be harder trails, bigger cliffs, sicker lines, etc.

I think if you willingly and frequently ski double-blacks and "expert only" terrain - and do so respectfully (ie: not tumbling down the whole thing) then you are considered an expert skier. If you kind of warily and timidly ski double-blacks - and only do so occasionally, then you are more likely advanced.

But then that starts debate about double blacks in Colorado vs. them in VT or Canada...or in Europe. ugh...who cares, just ski and be merry!

 

[sdskiqueen]

Point well taken. The challenge is more than half the fun and I don't think there will ever be a time that even the most talented and experienced skiier can't be challenged. Every day is different and even runs you skiied time and time again are different every time you ski them.
Your point about black runs in different locales is so true. I learned to ski in Southern California at some very modest ski hills. After skiing black runs in Colorado, Utah and Canada, my old Southern California stomping grounds should be embarrassed!

 

[pinto]

This is an interesting topic as it is on a women's board. I probably don't have to elaborate. :p

Anyway, I'm in the same boat. I can never squeak out the word "expert," sorry. I'm not. But depending on the situation, you kind of have to. As in, in a ski shop, with someone who doesn't know you. I always said "advanced," and it would definitely lead to the wrong gear. A good salesman will figure it out (one asked me where I ski, and started fishing from there, asking really good questions), but there aren't that many of those around.

But other times it can lead the wrong way ... such as skiing in a big group where they split everyone up into abilities. I wasn't the one with the problem; it was my then-11-year-old son, and I felt like an idiot. I'd skied with this group the two previous years, and I knew he could handle the type of stuff we had done. But I didn't realize that the guide was taking us off piste, and my son was overterrained on his 140s (heavy untracked, breakable crust, and some gnarly traverses). So we were asked to leave. :-) Which is fine, I didn't want to hold anyone back, but I wish they'd explained where we were going first.

 

[RachelV]

Those who ski well enough to be expert skiers tend NOT to call themselves experts. Not because they're being modest, just they know there're always more challenging terrain they can't handle.

Yeah, exactly. The guys in TGR films, they're experts. Me, not so much.

There're a lot of "advanced" skiers. It ranges from those can ski 40 degree slope but not jumping off cliffs intentionally, to those who had just got down their first black without falling.

And that's kind of a pet peeve of mine -- people who can barely fight their way down a black and then call themselves advanced skiers -- so I tend to compensate too far in the other direction.

Dude, I don't know what took you so long - you're more fluid and gutsy than me, and I have no problem calling myself advanced.

Aw, you're too kind. You're awesome, too!!

 

[SnowHot]

There're a lot of "advanced" skiers. It ranges from those can ski 40 degree slope but not jumping off cliffs intentionally, to those who had just got down their first black without falling.

IMHO, a person who can not confidently ski Blacks is not an advanced skier.
Up until this past year, I considered myself an Upper Intermediate. It was not until two coaches emphasized to me that I was in deed advanced that I actually realized they may be right.
It will be a long time, if ever, before I consider myself at the top of the advanced bracket.

 

[altagirl]

hmmm...I don't know.

Tiger Woods is an expert golfer, but he is challenged every time he plays, right? You will always be challenged on the slopes - heck, that's kinda why we're out there, right? There will always be harder trails, bigger cliffs, sicker lines, etc.

I think if you willingly and frequently ski double-blacks and "expert only" terrain - and do so respectfully (ie: not tumbling down the whole thing) then you are considered an expert skier. If you kind of warily and timidly ski double-blacks - and only do so occasionally, then you are more likely advanced.

But then that starts debate about double blacks in Colorado vs. them in VT or Canada...or in Europe. ugh...who cares, just ski and be merry!

I absolutely agree with that.

There is NO SUCH THING as an athlete so good they can't improve. Even the pros are always pushing themselves - you never get to say "well, I passed the test, now I know it all and I'm done learning and trying to improve."

I know this topic comes up on ski boards every now and then and it gets on my nerves, to be honest. I think we can all agree that no one wants to be that person walking around bragging about how they're an "expert skier" - it's meaningless and sounds stupid. It's like some guy in the bar who says they can ski "everything" at a big resort like Alta or Snowbird. Pfft - yeah right. There are plenty of lines with massive drops and crazy exposure that no one has been crazy enough to ski yet. Skiing the marked "trails" is only the beginning. So there's no real reason to classify yourself for that purpose as far as I can tell. Whatever you're doing is death defying in one person's eyes and easy and boring to someone else.

So it comes down to two things: Fulfilling a personal goal - in which case, who cares if we all agree on the same definition? Define your goal however you like and work towards it.

Or being able to classify yourself properly for a class, group, or trail choice. And to be honest - those things all vary so widely there's nothing even close to being a universal definition. Because they are all relative to the other people in the group or the other trails on the mountain. There is no universal definition for what a black or double black run is or how hard it is - and the same run can be easy in some conditions and impossible in others. Even when you try to say - well, I like steeps - even if you have your inclinometer out and can say - I skied a 50 degree slope - that's great. But that could be very easy because it was short or had a nice open runout at the bottom or very difficult because it was tight/rocky/exposed.

So don't stress over it one way or the other. It's not a label on your forehead. And don't undersell yourself when you're taking lessons. If your friends are telling you you're better than you think you are - listen to them when it comes to describing your skiing for an instructor or a guide. If you have to - say "I have a hard time saying it because I feel like I have so much room for improvement, but my friends all tell me that I'm an expert skier." NO ONE who is trying to divide people into groups is expecting the definition of "expert" skiers to be perfection or anywhere near it. And Good Lord - if you walked into a ski shop and told the employees you're anything other than an expert, they assume you need beginner gear. Because they're without a doubt assuming that if you can make it down a black run alive, skis on or not, you're calling yourself an expert.

 

[ski diva]

I agree with everything that's been said here. The definition is so variable. And there's always room for improvement.

I personally hate to say how I ski. Usually when asked I'll say that I'm better than some, not as good as others. Which is true. Plus I'd hate to disappoint anyone I'm skiing with.

 

[altagirl]

I agree with everything that's been said here. The definition is so variable. And there's always room for improvement.

I personally hate to say how I ski. Usually when asked I'll say that I'm better than some, not as good as others. Which is true. Plus I'd hate to disappoint anyone I'm skiing with.

I think most of us do. The whole under-promise and over-deliver thing, eh?

It's funny - I did one camp and we self selected into three groups. I went in the middle group, as did a bunch of the guys I ski with. Some other guys I ski with went into the top group.

We rotated through coaches and after 2 runs with a new coach he said "wait a minute, I thought you guys were the middle group?" You could tell we were all nervous that we sucked and were disappointing him. And he said - "I'm confused because you're all better than the people in the top group". And what it really was that everyone in the middle group was older, afraid that the top group would be out jumping off cliffs and such and didn't want to hold anyone up or wind up cliffed out. The top group were more agressive skiers who wanted to really push themselves, jump off of stuff, ski as fast as possible, etc. But as it turned out the people in the middle group actually had better technical skills, we just didn't want as much risk.

So don't sweat the labels. For any useful purpose, it takes a lot more explanation than "I'm an advanced intermediate" or "I'm an expert" to have any clue how you ski.

 

[Jilly]

Altagirl, I had a similar experience with Club Med. The Ski School Director after seeing my CSIA pin asked me why I wasn't in his group. My reply "I ski pretty not fast". That was the difference between group A and B.
I usually say I'm advanced. To me an expert is comfortable on any terrain, I'm not. At Tremblant an expert would ski Dynamite. And I haven't. There are few trails I haven't, but that is one. It has a cliff and is always icy.
On my level 3 course last spring the instructor did say to me that I looked comfortable in the bumps. I really liked that as it was the first time in a long time I did feel that way. He also liked my Diva sticker on my helmet!

 

[island girl]

me too - I agree with everyone's comments. I am advanced for sure, but would never call myself expert because I don't really want to hurl myself down shutes and jump over rocks. I think an expert skier will go anywhere on any mountain without any hesitation and make it look effortless. Not me, I will pick and choose where I go and change my mind if I want to!