But the Spatulas that started the whole reverse camber/reverse sidecut thing started with Shane McConkey mounting ski bindings on waterskis and then getting Volant to produce a snow ski based on the concept.
-
Women skiers, this is the place for you -- an online community without the male-orientation you'll find in conventional ski magazines and internet ski forums. At TheSkiDiva.com, you can connect with other women to talk about skiing in a way that you can relate to, about things that you find of interest. Be sure to join our community to participate (women only, please!). Registration is fast and simple. Just be sure to add [email protected] to your address book so your registration activation emails won't be routed as spam. And please give careful consideration to your user name -- it will not be changed once your registration is confirmed.
What do you think of "No Snowboards" policy?
- Thread starter ski diva
- Start date
But the Spatulas that started the whole reverse camber/reverse sidecut thing started with Shane McConkey mounting ski bindings on waterskis and then getting Volant to produce a snow ski based on the concept.
lisaski
Certified Ski Diva
I used to be very open to skiing in a mixed environment (snowboarders and skiers) and always thought that the policy at places like Alta and Deer Valley were misguided. I really thought that by not allowing snowboarders, they hurt their revenue. However, after having to dodge numerous snowboarders who make lightening fast edge cut turns to their blind side without looking first and having my ear drums blown out in lift lines by those snowboarders who leap in the air and crash the bases of their snowboards on the snow surface to clear snow from the tops of their boards, I really do prefer skier only resorts. The turning point was when I was simply standing near the "Saddleback" lift line at "The Canyons" and a snowbarder who was trying to maintain his momentum to reach the lift line came crashing head on into me and knocked me over. I wish resorts would post signs around to remind snowboarders to look before turning to their blind side. One day, I asked a ski patroller who would be liable for an accident if I am the up-hill skier and a snowboarder makes a suddenly unexpected turn to his/her blind side without looking. Seems it should be argueable that the snowboarder is at fault. The ski patrol person's reply was - no, it is *always* the uphill rider/skier's fault. His advice was to simply give boarders enough room and expect the unexpected turn to the blind side.
LouWho
Diva in Training
I think it has a lot to do with the type of resort. Eaglecrest, here in Juneau, is a small publicly owned (and subsidized) resort that barely keeps alive. It's a wonderful little resort! From a buisness perspective, they couldn't afford to close off the mountain to one user group. Actually, legally, they can't, it is public land.
However, I think that there is a huge benefit to the small town/resort situation. We have a super strong snow sports community, and I think "The Code" is ground into every kid who ever looks at a snowflake. (I have actually seen a parent chase down their teeny-bopper mid-turn and chew them out over bad manners....very embarassing when your buddy is watching on the lift)
My experience at Eaglecrest is that the people I encounter with the poor mountain behaviour tend to be transplants from bigger resorts and not young boarders (oh wait! I'm a transplant! Crap! At least I'm a two planker!)
However, I think that there is a huge benefit to the small town/resort situation. We have a super strong snow sports community, and I think "The Code" is ground into every kid who ever looks at a snowflake. (I have actually seen a parent chase down their teeny-bopper mid-turn and chew them out over bad manners....very embarassing when your buddy is watching on the lift)
My experience at Eaglecrest is that the people I encounter with the poor mountain behaviour tend to be transplants from bigger resorts and not young boarders (oh wait! I'm a transplant! Crap! At least I'm a two planker!)
Gloria
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I had heard the water ski part actually, but in reading this thread I rememberred the shape of my old sims blade. It seems like it was reverse sidecut. Evidentally not related to the new skis, I am thinking now that the split tail powder boards are reverse side-cut too....Just thinking.
Was resisting commenting, but here goes.
I have been bumped into and wiped out and almost wiped out by boarders, much more than by skiers. I find how some whiz by with no warning at all (and, sometimes, overhead), often without control, scary. Then add lift line pushiness and fooling around. And, they often run in packs. Many are in that teen-aged-attitude age. It's not all boarders, but it only takes a few. Will sometimes give them a piece of my mind, or an occasional expletive will pop out of me. I feel like an old something-or-other, but it comes back to manners, mentioned in another thread. And, then, there's the way the boards can push the snow around and pile it up. Thank goodness resorts have parks that are snowboarding magnets, to leave other slopes to less craziness.
I love an all-ski resort - sort of like having an all-women's site?
On the other hand, it's great that it's all so popular that it helps keep snowsports going!
I have been bumped into and wiped out and almost wiped out by boarders, much more than by skiers. I find how some whiz by with no warning at all (and, sometimes, overhead), often without control, scary. Then add lift line pushiness and fooling around. And, they often run in packs. Many are in that teen-aged-attitude age. It's not all boarders, but it only takes a few. Will sometimes give them a piece of my mind, or an occasional expletive will pop out of me. I feel like an old something-or-other, but it comes back to manners, mentioned in another thread. And, then, there's the way the boards can push the snow around and pile it up. Thank goodness resorts have parks that are snowboarding magnets, to leave other slopes to less craziness.
I love an all-ski resort - sort of like having an all-women's site?
On the other hand, it's great that it's all so popular that it helps keep snowsports going!
meredithCO
Certified Ski Diva
DUMB QUESTION ALERT: What's a "spatula"?Geez, am I old or what...?
I think the divas are referring to the Volant Spatula, a reverse-camber, reverse-sidecut powder ski that (I think) was one of the first of its kind.
...in the shape of a, "spatula"!
Telluride Ski Babe
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Telluride is a bit of an anomaly. Because we are so far off the 'beaten track' (you have to really want to ski/board here, because it takes a long time to get to...btw, that's one of the reasons we all really love it here) we tend to get a lot of families and 'older' (i.e., wealthier) singles. Most of the time the boarders on this mountain are pretty respectful of the rules and etiquette of the sport. When there aren't big groups in town, many of the boarders are local kids, and since many of them learned on this mountain under the watchful eyes of their skiing (or boarding) parents, they are very well behaved.
But occasionally, you certainly can see why some boarders sort of ruin it for others and give all boarders a bad name. About two weeks ago I was taking a lesson and we were skiing one of the favorite blues on the mountain. At one point the trail merges with another trail then immediately comes to the top of a headwall. It's a potentially dangerous intersection marked "SLOW" in many places. Well, we came up to this intersection and what should we find but a solid row of snowboarders sitting across the trail at the top of the headwall. My instructor (a Brit) was more than bulls*** over this and asked them to move to the side of the trail. They refused. Mind you, this request was made by someone who obviously works for the mountain. It was pretty incredible. And if that weren't bad enough, another snowboarder comes bombing down the steeper of the two runs that intersect and nearly takes out some of the boarders sitting there along with a couple of skiers. My instructor finally said to them, "well it's not on my head when you get hurt." These were not local kids. There was a group of 1,400 'kids' (college aged) in from the midwest. That's a large group for Telluride, and the vast majority of them were boarders. For whatever reason, some of them felt entitled to behave any way they chose while here. That's just bad behavior, but unfortunately, it's that kind of experience that leads some people to discriminate against all boarders. These 'kids' could have certainly learned something from our local kids (and I do mean high school aged) who are generally very respectful.
I've never been to a ski only mountain, but I certainly do not mind sharing the mountain with boarders. I like the terrain parks too.
But occasionally, you certainly can see why some boarders sort of ruin it for others and give all boarders a bad name. About two weeks ago I was taking a lesson and we were skiing one of the favorite blues on the mountain. At one point the trail merges with another trail then immediately comes to the top of a headwall. It's a potentially dangerous intersection marked "SLOW" in many places. Well, we came up to this intersection and what should we find but a solid row of snowboarders sitting across the trail at the top of the headwall. My instructor (a Brit) was more than bulls*** over this and asked them to move to the side of the trail. They refused. Mind you, this request was made by someone who obviously works for the mountain. It was pretty incredible. And if that weren't bad enough, another snowboarder comes bombing down the steeper of the two runs that intersect and nearly takes out some of the boarders sitting there along with a couple of skiers. My instructor finally said to them, "well it's not on my head when you get hurt." These were not local kids. There was a group of 1,400 'kids' (college aged) in from the midwest. That's a large group for Telluride, and the vast majority of them were boarders. For whatever reason, some of them felt entitled to behave any way they chose while here. That's just bad behavior, but unfortunately, it's that kind of experience that leads some people to discriminate against all boarders. These 'kids' could have certainly learned something from our local kids (and I do mean high school aged) who are generally very respectful.
I've never been to a ski only mountain, but I certainly do not mind sharing the mountain with boarders. I like the terrain parks too.
chaletlaforet
Certified Ski Diva
Well I think I'll pop my head over the parapet here
I'm a boarder....I came here for help and advice because I would like to learn to ski, and stayed for the chat and great mix of people. Still haven't got around to those lessons though!
We were both all set for them when conditions got really good and it seemed daft to be on the nursery slopes and wasting all that powder. At least I've read a lot in preparation :D
There are lots of interesting posts here as always
We often ride with skiers as many of our friends ski, and as several have observed, if you're all pretty good it doesn't make that much difference.
Of course, as many have said, snowboarders have no monopoly on idiocy! In fact, there's a big resurgence in skiing amongst young people here at the moment, many of whom behave like loons. It is definitely true though, that you can be a nuisance much earlier on in your mountain career on a board than on skis.
I agree that the biggest thing really is education. The huge majority of people have lessons but slope etiquette very rarely seems to form part of what they learn. I was taught very little of it in lessons but luckily I ride with a great bunch of people who directed me.
E.G.
Most novice snowboarders that I've ridden with have no idea that they shouldn't sit around blocking the slopes in dangerous places. Or rather, they have been told, but forget it straight away, and then don't get reminded because you can be up and running without an instructor so quickly. To stand still on a snowboard is quite tricky so people tend to sit down a lot, especially when they are learning, and particularly when they first start to descend a steeper slope (placing them in a dangerous position behind the ridge) and then this becomes a bad habit.
I almost never sit - certainly not in the piste. I kneel at the side out of the way, facing the slope so I can see what's coming. But I'm perpetually surprised at how many people do.
Many of the things that can gall skiers a bit about boarders have a similar explanation at the root.....I guess I'm trying, in a long winded way, to say that although there are of course some bad eggs, a lot of the problems are just ignorance, stemming from differences in the techniques and the fact that you need so much less instruction to ride than to ski.
I'm not entirely sure what the solution is but I guess we all just have to get along Sorry for the ramble!!!
I'm a boarder....I came here for help and advice because I would like to learn to ski, and stayed for the chat and great mix of people. Still haven't got around to those lessons though!
We were both all set for them when conditions got really good and it seemed daft to be on the nursery slopes and wasting all that powder. At least I've read a lot in preparation :D
There are lots of interesting posts here as always
We often ride with skiers as many of our friends ski, and as several have observed, if you're all pretty good it doesn't make that much difference.
Of course, as many have said, snowboarders have no monopoly on idiocy! In fact, there's a big resurgence in skiing amongst young people here at the moment, many of whom behave like loons. It is definitely true though, that you can be a nuisance much earlier on in your mountain career on a board than on skis.
I agree that the biggest thing really is education. The huge majority of people have lessons but slope etiquette very rarely seems to form part of what they learn. I was taught very little of it in lessons but luckily I ride with a great bunch of people who directed me.
E.G.
Most novice snowboarders that I've ridden with have no idea that they shouldn't sit around blocking the slopes in dangerous places. Or rather, they have been told, but forget it straight away, and then don't get reminded because you can be up and running without an instructor so quickly. To stand still on a snowboard is quite tricky so people tend to sit down a lot, especially when they are learning, and particularly when they first start to descend a steeper slope (placing them in a dangerous position behind the ridge) and then this becomes a bad habit.
I almost never sit - certainly not in the piste. I kneel at the side out of the way, facing the slope so I can see what's coming. But I'm perpetually surprised at how many people do.
Many of the things that can gall skiers a bit about boarders have a similar explanation at the root.....I guess I'm trying, in a long winded way, to say that although there are of course some bad eggs, a lot of the problems are just ignorance, stemming from differences in the techniques and the fact that you need so much less instruction to ride than to ski.
I'm not entirely sure what the solution is but I guess we all just have to get along
Sorry for the ramble!!!
alaski
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
They definitely can; user groups can have dedicated public lands, no legal issue there. Think of ballfields, golf courses, etc. It's just a matter of dedicated use. It probably won't happen, but it's definitely possible and legal.
Anyway, I would LOVE an all-skier resort. The community is too small where I live to support a ski-only resort, but I would love it. I really dislike sharing the mountain with snowboarders. Sorry.
I've never been hit by a skier but have been hit by 3 snowboarders (and had countless other close calls). One guy ran me down so badly that he broke both of his legs. At least they were HIS legs and not mine, but he could have hurt me badly. I pulled up at a "slow" sign and he couldn't stop and just mowed me down. The lack of control (which is a given with a snowboard; they just can't stop as quickly) combined with the huge blind spot, skin-track and traverse-trampeling, lift-line and chairlift scrapings, top-of-lift swarming, bump wrecking, sideslipping, and stop-and-sit tendency that go with snowboarding just makes it a nightmare to share the mountain with them.
I know they're not going away, but I don't have to like it. And I just had to make one of my first few posts on a controversial topic!
Yeah, Alta is a private company but it's mostly on leased public land. That's definintely not an issue. Remember, it's NOT discrimination to say what sorts of uses are permitted - heck, the Forest Service does it all the time, labeling areas for non-motorized use, or hiking only, or no horses or whatever. Because any of those people can use different gear and be allowed to use that land - you're not telling people they can't go, just what they are allowed to do on that land.
Now a publicly subsidized operation would probably be a different thing, and would at least be at the whim of the community who is subsidizing it.
Now a publicly subsidized operation would probably be a different thing, and would at least be at the whim of the community who is subsidizing it.
SkiNurse
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
This is a copy of a post of mine from over at gear-addicts on a thread re: Burton's poaching videos.
I primarily ski with boarders. Most of my skiing friends either work more than me, ski weekends or have more family priorities than I do.
The issues I have with boarders are SAME issues my boarder friends have with other boarders.
1. Not realizing you have a "blind side".
2. Blocking runs and sitting down in, oh here is that word again, blind areas. This is the same for skiers that stop int he middle of a run where they can't be seen.
3. The "shorter" learning curve allows some of these riders to access areas of the mountain that they have noi business being in. That's where the frustration of other riders come in. Then they are going down on there edge, scraping the snow. Please do that oon a groomed run.
4. Back to the blind side. The fact that a fair amount don't look into the trail that they are coming into either from a terrain park or another trial that crosees. I have been taken out more than once.
Really...riders of all type need to know the code. Need to be courteous of other riders. Know your ability. I warn other riders that I'm over taking that I'm either passing them on the left or the right, blind or front side. I don't merge into another trail without looking. I am well aware that I have to avoid the rider below me.
With my job, the collisions we see are not skier vs skier, or boarder vs boarder, it is skier vs boarder. Maybe look at these skier only resorts and see if their percentage of collisions is less?? Maybe it's a liability issue? And another thing. Who really cares about a handful of PRIVATE resorts that won't allow a type of rider in? I wouldn't care if there were boarder only riding areas. It's like being on a lake that has designated areas for jet skis. Or, a hiking only trail that is closed to mountain biking. There are plenty of other resorts, lakes or trial to access.
For Burton or anyone to encourage "poaching" is irresponsible.
Here's the link to the GA thread if anyone is interested:
https://www.gear-addicts.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2394&st=0&sk=t&sd=a
I primarily ski with boarders. Most of my skiing friends either work more than me, ski weekends or have more family priorities than I do.
The issues I have with boarders are SAME issues my boarder friends have with other boarders.
1. Not realizing you have a "blind side".
2. Blocking runs and sitting down in, oh here is that word again, blind areas. This is the same for skiers that stop int he middle of a run where they can't be seen.
3. The "shorter" learning curve allows some of these riders to access areas of the mountain that they have noi business being in. That's where the frustration of other riders come in. Then they are going down on there edge, scraping the snow. Please do that oon a groomed run.
4. Back to the blind side. The fact that a fair amount don't look into the trail that they are coming into either from a terrain park or another trial that crosees. I have been taken out more than once.
Really...riders of all type need to know the code. Need to be courteous of other riders. Know your ability. I warn other riders that I'm over taking that I'm either passing them on the left or the right, blind or front side. I don't merge into another trail without looking. I am well aware that I have to avoid the rider below me.
With my job, the collisions we see are not skier vs skier, or boarder vs boarder, it is skier vs boarder. Maybe look at these skier only resorts and see if their percentage of collisions is less?? Maybe it's a liability issue? And another thing. Who really cares about a handful of PRIVATE resorts that won't allow a type of rider in? I wouldn't care if there were boarder only riding areas. It's like being on a lake that has designated areas for jet skis. Or, a hiking only trail that is closed to mountain biking. There are plenty of other resorts, lakes or trial to access.
For Burton or anyone to encourage "poaching" is irresponsible.
Here's the link to the GA thread if anyone is interested:
https://www.gear-addicts.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2394&st=0&sk=t&sd=a
alaski
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
All right, I just watched those videos. They just sum up everything I don't like about snowboarding, and those girls were the worst. "We just poached your mountain, son." And they're what - 14? Makes me wonder how they were raised - not well, evidently.
That is the type of behavior that snowboarding encourages, and that's exactly why I can't stand being around snowboarders. Until snowboarders themselves condemn that kind of stuff, they will continue to foster anti-snowboarding sentiments.
I can't wait to see what happens when some boarder hurts a skier trying to "poach" - I think Jakey might end up with a few lawsuits on his hands, and will be out a lot more than the $5000 "reward".
That is the type of behavior that snowboarding encourages, and that's exactly why I can't stand being around snowboarders. Until snowboarders themselves condemn that kind of stuff, they will continue to foster anti-snowboarding sentiments.
I can't wait to see what happens when some boarder hurts a skier trying to "poach" - I think Jakey might end up with a few lawsuits on his hands, and will be out a lot more than the $5000 "reward".
chaletlaforet
Certified Ski Diva
As has been established in the previous posts, many snowboarders do feel the same!
Anyway...this has been a non-issue to me for a long time, and it's a bit odd to see the resurgence of the friction, for which no thanks at all to Burton. I'm glad that Taos has opened up (I would not want to go to a "Snowboard only" area either) but the publicity tactics of Burton are a long way from the hard working, dedicated and charming pro-snowboard campaigners I met a few years back in Taos.
I was thinking about this yesterday, and started observing the skiers and snowboarders, and noticed plenty of bad and good practice on both sides.
I was particularly tickled when two kids (11/12ish) on skis cut straight across me because they'd seen the terrain park and nearly took me out.....while their parents gave *me* a dirty look!! There's bad and good manners everywhere, and it's silly to be griping about what you use on the mountain. We're all here to enjoy it, and to tar everyone with the same brush just strikes me as divisive and pointless.
But then, I would say that :D
Anyway...this has been a non-issue to me for a long time, and it's a bit odd to see the resurgence of the friction, for which no thanks at all to Burton. I'm glad that Taos has opened up (I would not want to go to a "Snowboard only" area either) but the publicity tactics of Burton are a long way from the hard working, dedicated and charming pro-snowboard campaigners I met a few years back in Taos.
I was thinking about this yesterday, and started observing the skiers and snowboarders, and noticed plenty of bad and good practice on both sides.
I was particularly tickled when two kids (11/12ish) on skis cut straight across me because they'd seen the terrain park and nearly took me out.....while their parents gave *me* a dirty look!! There's bad and good manners everywhere, and it's silly to be griping about what you use on the mountain. We're all here to enjoy it, and to tar everyone with the same brush just strikes me as divisive and pointless.
But then, I would say that :D
Robyn
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Okay, that video with the girls really angers me. The others at least kept their distance but those girls were purposely riding across people's skis, cutting them off and even touching the people. If they'd done that to me I would have held onto their coat and called patrol. I have all patrol numbers in my cell phone.
