Vonn asks to race against the men!

[altagirl]

Seems to me the answer is to move the women's start to the same spot as the men's start!

That'll put women skiing on the same footing as men. And any outstanding women skier would be able to point to her time on that course to say how it stack up against men!

I'd agree, though I'm obviously not a ski racer and don't know how many women would not race on the men's course at world cup level. Obviously losing racers doesn't help, and I would guess having easier courses at amateur levels helps build you up... I don't know.

In DH MTB, yes, most of the women on the world cup get solidly crushed by the men. But there are a few who would qualify or at least do respectably well racing against the men and it's really inspiring. I still certainly want to see separate women's races so we can get more women involved and they can have their own class, but at least you can see how it stacks up.

 

[pinto]

....Sorry if I seem a little strident, but I find it frustrating when capable women hit the glass ceiling, whether it's in business, politics, or sports. The first women to apply for men's positions and status were laughed off, discriminated against, and disapproved of by men and women alike. I was one of those women, and it was difficult and often humiliating until I proved that this pretty little thing could handle loads, distances, conditions, frightening situations and angry threatening visitors as well as or better than all but a few of the guys. I had to fight tooth and nail for the right to work that hard, and if someone else wants to fight the fight, I'll do nothing but cheer them on.

I totally agree with you about this^^^. I just don't see that the two are the same. Billie Jean King's tennis match against Bobby Riggs was more what you are describing ... back then, it was thought that women just couldn't beat men, period, even if the woman was a 20-something champion and the man was a 50-something broken down old coot like Bobby Riggs. ;-)

I fail to see that women are not taken seriously in sports, or that there is a glass ceiling. No one is laughing off Maria Sharapova or Serena Williams or Lindsey Vonn or Danica Patrick . They are millionaires, many times over.

What Vonn is asking for is not easy to give. If it were a golf tournament or a tennis match (or even a slalom), no big deal, do an exhibition and be done with it. A downhill race is a lot more involved, and a LOT more dangerous. I think it would be great to compare the two, but it just isn't practical. Note that LV wasn't willing to give up WC points to forerun, it just isn't worth the risk. She wants to measure herself, and I GET that. It's just that they don't have the same measuring stick available.

That said, she has been hospitalized with an unknown illness ... having severe intestinal pain, body aches, etc for a couple of weeks. Sounds scary, and I hope they figure it out and she feels better soon!

 

[Christy]

Seems to me the answer is to move the women's start to the same spot as the men's start!

That would be the answer if all the women were wanting to race men. But that's not the case. You have one exceptional woman who has smoked the rest of the women, who is already the winningest American of either gender, and who will very possibly be the winningest skier ever. She is the best woman skier ever. So for her, it is the glass ceiling. There's not much else to prove with the women. There's only one place left to go.

 

[abc]

That would be the answer if all the women were wanting to race men. But that's not the case. .

.
I don't see it that way. They're not "racing men". They're racing in the same course as men.

Many, many other sports have men and women on the same venue and only score them seperately.

You have one exceptional woman who has smoked the rest of the women, who is already the winningest American of either gender, and who will very possibly be the winningest skier ever. She is the best woman skier ever. So for her, it is the glass ceiling. There's not much else to prove with the women. There's only one place left to go.

No, it's not a "glass" ceiling. It's a REAL ceiling.

With a seperate men and women division, the ceiling is real. And it's chosen by all women collectively, admiting inferior. Period.

The only way she can break that REAL ceiling is to race "as a man". She could race exclusively in woman's race or exclusively in man's race. But not flip-flopping between the two, picking her own event.

(Now if she request to race exclusively in man's race and they deny her, that would be more interesting. It would be as though they think men aren't "men enough" to let her smoke them in a regular season! Unfortunately, that's not what she's asking...)

 

[litterbug]

My scenario would be that she might fight to get in, perhaps more than once, be remembered for being thwarted in her efforts to see whether she measured up on the same playing field, and creating a conversation about why and how that happened and whether the whole thing was just a publicity stunt, plus some "what if" speculation. Then another woman might come along as Vonn is in decline and try the same thing, and this time the idea might get more traction, perhaps even netting a few exhibition non-WC events to satisfy people's curiosity. And ten or twelve years from now there'll be a way for competitive women to race against men for some kinds of points, and Lindsay Vonn will be a commentator celebrating how somebody picked up the banner.

But that's just my fantasy. Time passes, and things change. Or not.

Meanwhile, prettytough.com showed a video of a 540 McTwist being thrown by 12 year old Alana Smith, apparently the second woman to do so. She didn't have Shawn White-type height, but she pulled it off and landed it neatly. I've been waiting for the girls to do more than spin!

Anyhow, I hope she's OK, and that it turns out to be something like an ovarian cyst and not something more complicated that can't be soothed with chicken soup.

 

[litterbug]

No, it's not a "glass" ceiling. It's a REAL ceiling.

That's a really good way to put it, abc. A glass ceiling is where you aren't formally prevented from rising further but are stuck because of unspoken factors like race, gender, or disability. What we have in WC racing is a structural barrier that everybody's signed onto.

If women did race on the same courses as men, even if they raced separately, they'd train differently throughout their careers, and different women might come to lead the pack, at least in disciplines where weight and power is an advantage. In that case, Lindsay Vonn would become the face of a maturing sport instead of an outlier, and it would become natural to have some sort of co-ed racing. And I've noticed that it's not always the big guys who win; how many times has Ivica Kostelic stood on a podium in second or third place, towering over some wiry little French guy perched on the top step?

Ah, my fantasies are a great place to live in!

 

[Christy]

I was watching the Lake Louise DH race today on Eurosport UK, and the (male) commentators said it was such a shame that the FIS ignored what would have been "a PR gift to the sport of ski racing."

She crushed the field once again; she's leading by 1.73 seconds, and we are down to the lower racers. This will be her 10th DH victory at Lake Louise.

 

[SkiGAP]

I was watching the Lake Louise DH race today on Eurosport UK, and the (male) commentators said it was such a shame that the FIS ignored what would have been "a PR gift to the sport of ski racing."

She crushed the field once again; she's leading by 1.73 seconds, and we are down to the lower racers. This will be her 10th DH victory at Lake Louise.

I watched that as well, on Eurosport France. Amazing. Less than ideal visibility too.