Lindsay Vonn has asked the FIS if she can race against the men in Lake Louise this winter! See this: https://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/news...ssion-enter-mens-downhill-182621464--ski.html
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Vonn asks to race against the men!
- Thread starter Jilly
- Start date
skibum4ever
Angel Diva
That would be great to see, no matter what the result.
litterbug
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
It's about damn time. I like the fact that the FIS didn't dismiss it out of hand, and I think she'd place pretty well. She's got the size, strength, and talent, and is so driven that I sometimes think racing the guys might raise her game, just as competing with her has made other women's skiing stronger and more aggressive.
The issue for me is ... is she willing to forgo the women's tour the next week at Lake Louise?
What I read is that you're not allowed to ski a course within a week before a competition. Skiing against the men would give her an advantage over the other women the next week. This could come down to how badly she wants to ski against the men.
What I read is that you're not allowed to ski a course within a week before a competition. Skiing against the men would give her an advantage over the other women the next week. This could come down to how badly she wants to ski against the men.
bounceswoosh
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
To widen her competitive field?
If you were destroying the competition at whatever level you were competing at, you wouldn't want to step it up?
I mean, I know it's a complicated question (not my question above, the question of women competing with men in athletics in general), but no doubt this would bring more attention to skiing than it's had in years, maybe ever -- so on that level at least I think it's a no-brainer.
pinto
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
What exactly is the step-up, though? Since you are racing against the clock, it isn't as if the different competition will make it easier or harder for you to perform, except maybe in some psychological aspects. And based on last year's scores, she isn't anywhere NEAR the top men. She isn't anywhere near most of the men, except a few at the bottom. But most of all, I think it's kind of a slap in the face to the rest of the women on the tour....
I'm not trying to be a stick in the mud, and if her times were competitive, I'd be all for it ... but they aren't. It smells of an attention-gathering stunt. Which I guess isn't a bad thing, but not sure how it plays out...
Plus isn't there the whole thing with the new ski sidecut rules this season, so who knows how that will affect the status quo.
I'm not trying to be a stick in the mud, and if her times were competitive, I'd be all for it ... but they aren't. It smells of an attention-gathering stunt. Which I guess isn't a bad thing, but not sure how it plays out...
Plus isn't there the whole thing with the new ski sidecut rules this season, so who knows how that will affect the status quo.
bounceswoosh
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I have a vague impression that in the past, the women's competition runs differed from the men's ... was that for a different event?
mustski
Angel Diva
I agree, she would have to forgo the women's tour the next week. Fair is fair ... she can't use the men's competition as a training ground.
litterbug
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
The piece said that if allowed to race with the men she wouldn't be agreed to race the following week because racing the course would give her an advantage.
I haven't looked at whether last year's numbers were competitive, but it does send a message of some kind. And I'm not convinced that women necessarily aren't able to compete with men. Certainly she wouldn't have nearly the advantage she has racing the ladies, but I doubt she'd place higher than a lot of them. Just doing that would make things more interesting, and maybe inspire a generation of girls to challenge a gender barrier.
I believe that winning isn't necessarily the issue. Even if she comes in at the middle if the pack, she challenges the notion that women are more delicate than women.
I guess that having broken so many gender barriers, I've often felt impatient that an outstanding athlete is treated differently than men. And is being part of a sport or a team really about being polite?
I haven't looked at whether last year's numbers were competitive, but it does send a message of some kind. And I'm not convinced that women necessarily aren't able to compete with men. Certainly she wouldn't have nearly the advantage she has racing the ladies, but I doubt she'd place higher than a lot of them. Just doing that would make things more interesting, and maybe inspire a generation of girls to challenge a gender barrier.
I believe that winning isn't necessarily the issue. Even if she comes in at the middle if the pack, she challenges the notion that women are more delicate than women.
I guess that having broken so many gender barriers, I've often felt impatient that an outstanding athlete is treated differently than men. And is being part of a sport or a team really about being polite?
There really is no way to compare her times versus the men based on past race results. Even if they are racing the same run, the men and women are skiing entirely different course-sets, typically on different days even (I don't think there are WC races where they are skiing the same course-set, but I could be wrong with that)... you can easily have a few second gap simply by the course-set or snow conditions, so comparing past results is like comparing apples to kittens. I still don't think her times would be very competitive, but you wouldn't be able to tell by comparing past results, the only way to tell is to have her run the exact some course on the exact same day as the men.
bounceswoosh
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Even if her past times don't match the men's and even if that's a relevant number - to me, that's even more of a reason that she might want to. Competing against people better than you makes you better. Even if she doesn't place, she might still improve more than she would competing against the women, and if that's the case, I can see how the increased challenge would appeal. Maybe it is insulting to the other women racers - but you know, maybe a woman shouldn't be so concerned about the feelings of her competitors that she doesn't go after a dream that has a very limited window of opportunity. I don't see a male racer saying, "Oh, jeez, the guys might be offended that I think I'm better than them, so I'm just going to skip this once in a lifetime opportunity."
Christy
Angel Diva
Another reason I'd like to see this is, as tjm235 pointed out, is the course sets are always different (actually the courses are most always different, too). I've always thought it a shame that the top women still never have a chance to do the iconic courses-the women don't even go to Wengen, Kitzbuhel, or Bormio. The assumption is, the can't handle it.
I doubt other women will feel insulted. I've seen too many interviews with other female skiers where they talk about how discouraging it can be to ski against Vonn. And this kind of thing has a long history in sports-from tennis to horse racing, the question of "can the women compete with the men" is once that people find relevant and interesting.
I doubt other women will feel insulted. I've seen too many interviews with other female skiers where they talk about how discouraging it can be to ski against Vonn. And this kind of thing has a long history in sports-from tennis to horse racing, the question of "can the women compete with the men" is once that people find relevant and interesting.
pinto
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Yeah, I figured it had to be the same course or the FIS wouldn't have a problem with it. I wasn't sure how different the course sets would be for downhill, though ... and I assumed if anything the women's would actually be shorter, so that would lessen her time, theoretically, not increase it. As for time differences on different days, obviously that is so ... but if we are looking at 4 or 5 full seconds, that's a lifetime, not a difference of a tenth or even a second or two.
She has won Lake Louise 7 of the past 8 years, right? Yeah, I guess she is looking for something different. It still reeks of Look-At-Me, though ... maybe my view is too colored by that. I really want to love her, but I don't. I like her enough, but something rubs me the wrong way.....
