Vail makes helmets mandatory for employees

[MaineSkiLady]

^^^ Part of the problem (or a big chunk of it?), IMHO, is the "new" learning curve, which is far different than it was with the old, straight, super-long skis. It's much quicker. I think skiers and riders tend to become overconfident in their skills - or "purported" skills, having skipped over a lot of what we used to have to learn and master back in the "day."

Carving comes easily, without the speed control factor and a lot of other useful skills (steering/skid/use of flat ski). I can't even remember the last time I saw someone doing a sideslip.

Agree with snwl above - I've been clipped (and injured) and downright taken out, full-bore. I now completely avoid any/all resorts that have this kind of slope density. It just isn't fun when it's all about avoidance :mad: - and giving these people the room to screw up...

 

[SnowHot]

I choose to wear a helmet 80 percent of the time, but hate to be mandated to do so for all conditions and situations, as these vary and because I've done fine for 40 years without one.

As far as Vail or other ski resorts and their insurance liability, it would be interesting to look at the statistics, as I'm guessing that head injuries for experienced/skilled riders are rare. I think it's the 'role model' thing for the guests---who could benefit from helmets greatly, as I would guess that statistically the beginners and kids are the most vulnerable to falls and head injuries---and also are most likely to sue a resort when bad things happen.

What I worry about---is what next? Skiing has inherent risks. Measures such as helmets, safety bars can reduce some of these risks, but what next? Bubble wrapped ski outfits? Nets below the lifts? Monitors with speed guns on the slopes and tickets? Certification of skill for double blacks?

I'm old school and part of the mystique of skiing to me is the risk factor and the adrenaline and the joy of 'taking care of myself' on the mountain. I have learned (sometimes the hard way) to read the conditions, the slope and make my own decisions as to what risk I'm willing to assume on any given day (or not).

And some skiers/boarders are idiots. All the rules and regulations and helmets in the world can't make up for stupidity.

As I told my kids when they were little: the mountain will always win, so respect it. Don't be stupid or you could die.

I couldn't agree more. Skiing has always, in my mind, been an extreme sport, and though I choose to wear a helmet, I don't thing that complete safety can be mandated. I will not be wearing full body armor.

I do believe that a company can enforce a rule for their employees and its up to the employee if he/she wants to work there.

As a point of interest:
I saw some statistics for resorts incidents when I was in Colorado in March. IIRC the statistics were to date Feb 28th, and included all resorts in the Summit/Eagle area.
What I recall most was that Copper incidents are down, while Vail resorts incidents are up. All of this upon the heels of Vail resorts new safety initiative and mandatory safety meetings for their employees.

IMHO there are a few things that may have impacted these statistics:

• Copper's blue/green trails are not mish mashed as much with the black/double black.
• The EpicPass has drawn a lot of skiers to Vail resorts and away from Copper Resorts(Intrawest). Crowded slopes can be an accident waiting to happen.

 

[Little Lightning]

Copper has "Slope Watch" a group of volunteers who patrol the busiest runs. They are very visible to anyone who skis runs like Main Vein and Highpoint. They have the ability to take lift tickets and their sheer presence on the most crowded runs slows people down.

Also, Copper doesn't groom runs as much as Vail resorts. Frequent grooming seems to makes the runs faster.

Keystone has a slope watch group but they're not as visible as Copper's group.

The runs don't have to be crowded, it just takes one careless person, my incident with the boarder on Sunday was on an uncrowded run and my incident last year with a boarder at Vail was on a totally empty run.

I agree with the thoughts of others, many skiers think the objective of skiing is to go as fast as they can, irregardless of skill. When I see those people coming I just stand to the side and let them pass.

Many skiers think of the sport as one that you can learn by yourself or from friends and don't ever take lessons. So they go out and ski fast and become a danger to all of us.

 

[jwcomputergirl]

Quote Pinto...not so sure about patrollers. They are not necessarily role models in direct contact with kids like instructors are, and they spend most of their time doing stuff other than skiing. (And, you know, a helmet might not help in an explosives accident! )
[End Quote]
Pinto - I am confused and somewhat concerned about your quote. What in the world are the ski patrollers on your mountain doing? I'm a ski patroller. I spend about 80% of my time skiing and about 20% of my time tending to injuries. And my mountain has a really high injury rate. And we're not Role Models? Huh? It's true that my mountain doesn't require us to wear helmets, but we do. Not only for our own safety (we see SOOOOO many concussions every single day), but we feel we need to set a good example for the G.P. And we have direct contact with kids every single day. We are encouraged to ride the lifts with the G.P. and not each other and we preach skier safety and the responsibility code.

 

[perma-grin]

I patrol also I would have to say that I interact with children almost as much patroling as when I'm coaching or teaching. But I am at a small area in Michigan now, the job is a little different here. When I lived in Sun Valley the Patrol was all Pro and I would say the interaction was not as often nor was there the oppourtunity to interact with as many children because of the size of the area and job description.( Which is why I went stuck with ski school there, a lot less work) All area's are different as are the requirements and duties of the patrollers first aid is your one constant factor. Area management dictates your job, so some patrols play a greater part in customer service and interact with patrons on a daily basis more than other patrols. We have "Safe Skier" coupons that we award to young skiers wearing helmets, skiing under control, or knowing the skiers responsibilty code. They are good at Mc Donalds for treats! It's nice to be able to reward a young skier for making good turns, or being able to answer safety questions about skiing while you are riding with them on the chair. Young children and a lot of recreational adult skiers really don't distinguish between instructors and Patrolers they lump us all into the same "area package" employee's. Occasionally a student will coment on my wearing a diferent jacket when they see me in a patrol vest vs a ski school jacket. My helmet stays the same. If I wasn't a helmet wearer by choice,and area management told me I had to wear one, I'd do it! It is no different then when they tell me that they are changing my uniform, I do what Area management tells me to. After all I work for them, they do not work for me. I don't see many Vail employees sweating the changes being asked of them to hard either.

 

[dloveski]

The role for ski patrol in the west may be different...don't know for sure, but it sounds like it may be.

I know the full-time patrollers and rarely see them on the main runs free-skiing during lift hours, especially on new snow days, unless there's an injury or slide. I may catch a sighting early a.m. as they head out with the dogs before the lifts 'officially' open. Then there's the blast patrol which I never see until late morning at the patrol shack, though I know they are on the job somewhere out there, cuz I hear the artillery booms.

At our resort, the patrol are busy with back-mountain tasks, rope adjustments after each storm. On the lifts, they are usually toting up a tobaggon back to the top or one of the dogs----so are usually not in line with the guests--and then they do the sweep after lifts close---so patrol are not usually front and center on the main runs.

I do see more patrol sporting helmets these days, but it's clearly a personal preference at this point. I would start with helmets for ski instructors, especially those teaching never evers and kids, first with a helmet program, not patrollers.

 

[SkiNurse]

As someone who skis at all the resorts in Summit/Eagle counties, I have to say it is the instructors/patrol at Vail/BC seem NOT to wear helmets. I would say 20% wear them. You see them being worn more consistently at Breck, Keystone, Abasin, Copper, Winter Park.

I've never worked patrol, so I can't comment on what their "job" entails in a 8hr day, but I would say that they are very visable.

 

[dloveski]

what in the world are the ski patrollers on your mountain doing? I'm a ski patroller. I spend about 80% of my time skiing and about 20% of my time tending to injuries. ........We are encouraged to ride the lifts with the G.P. and not each other and we preach skier safety and the responsibility code.

Clearly there are different patrol roles at resorts. It sounds like this resort has defined a hybrid role of patrol/ambassador, which may be appropriate given the size and terrain.

All patrollers are great and likely integrate these roles into their many other duties, but on a big snow day, it seems like patrol doesn't get to ski much and may not interact at all with the G.P..

That's why the resort created the Hosts: a position with no real responsibility or specialized skill set (except to be friendly, smile, carry maps, be able to gear up and slide down with a modicum of grace)---to free the patrol so they can focus on their tasks. (Though, having a radio comes in handy to call patrol when we come upon an injury and on occasion, hosts assist in probe lines like last week's slide at Millie.)

As a Host, we are encouraged to ski with the G.P. and not eachother, reinforce skier safety/responsibility, and spend most of the time skiing around. And, yes, most wear helmets.

 

[Mary Tee]

^^^ Part of the problem (or a big chunk of it?), IMHO, is the "new" learning curve, which is far different than it was with the old, straight, super-long skis. It's much quicker. I think skiers and riders tend to become overconfident in their skills - or "purported" skills, having skipped over a lot of what we used to have to learn and master back in the "day."

Carving comes easily, without the speed control factor and a lot of other useful skills (steering/skid/use of flat ski). I can't even remember the last time I saw someone doing a sideslip.

Agree with snwl above - I've been clipped (and injured) and downright taken out, full-bore. I now completely avoid any/all resorts that have this kind of slope density. It just isn't fun when it's all about avoidance :mad: - and giving these people the room to screw up...

I agree, between the new equipment and (at least in the east) the beautifully groomed slopes, there are a lot of people going way too fast for their skill level. Another factor is the high speed lift. "Back in the day" you knew where everyone was...in a lift line, now they are on the hill.

But given all that, as someone else said

"And some skiers/boarders are idiots. All the rules and regulations and helmets in the world can't make up for stupidity. "

Where do you stop trying to put the world in a protective bubble?

I was hit from behind a few years ago by another skier going way to fast and out of control and broke my leg. It is a risk I take when I get out there and put on a pair of skis.

I think the resorts have every right to insist that their employees set the good example. I don't think they should set those same rules for the general public, not even for kids, that is the parents job. If I had a child on the mountain, I would not allow them out without a helmet, but that would be my decision. If I wanted to be an idiot and allow my child to ski without a helmet, that would also be my decision. We can't be a nanny to everyone. JMHO

 

[pinto]

Quote Pinto...not so sure about patrollers. They are not necessarily role models in direct contact with kids like instructors are, and they spend most of their time doing stuff other than skiing. (And, you know, a helmet might not help in an explosives accident! )
[End Quote]
Pinto - I am confused and somewhat concerned about your quote. What in the world are the ski patrollers on your mountain doing? I'm a ski patroller. I spend about 80% of my time skiing and about 20% of my time tending to injuries. And my mountain has a really high injury rate. And we're not Role Models? Huh? It's true that my mountain doesn't require us to wear helmets, but we do. Not only for our own safety (we see SOOOOO many concussions every single day), but we feel we need to set a good example for the G.P. And we have direct contact with kids every single day. We are encouraged to ride the lifts with the G.P. and not each other and we preach skier safety and the responsibility code.

Don't be concerned ... be glad that they aren't as visible. Where do you patrol? I think some subsequent posts explained what I meant.

The difference to me is that when children are in a lesson, they are definitely supposed to be copying the instructor or coach. The instructor is a model for skiing, for behavior, etc.

Hopefully (where I live), children don't have much interaction with patrol, because it probably means they've been injured or have done something stupid and gotten themselves in trouble. Otherwise, patrol needs to be taking care of the snow and the mountain to make it safe for the rest of us to ski. On a smaller hill, as opposed to a big mountain, I can see that this role is not the same.

 

[SnowHot]

Pinto...not so sure about patrollers. They are not necessarily role models in direct contact with kids like instructors are, and they spend most of their time doing stuff other than skiing. (And, you know, a helmet might not help in an explosives accident! )

Pinto - I am confused and somewhat concerned about your quote. What in the world are the ski patrollers on your mountain doing? I'm a ski patroller. I spend about 80% of my time skiing and about 20% of my time tending to injuries. And my mountain has a really high injury rate. And we're not Role Models? Huh? It's true that my mountain doesn't require us to wear helmets, but we do. Not only for our own safety (we see SOOOOO many concussions every single day), but we feel we need to set a good example for the G.P. And we have direct contact with kids every single day. We are encouraged to ride the lifts with the G.P. and not each other and we preach skier safety and the responsibility code.

I think a basic difference may be geography.
Jwcomputergirl, I see your location as NEPA, which translates to me as North East Pennsylvania.
I'm guessing that the PA patrollers do much the same as the Michigan patrollers, which is a commendable job to say the least.
However, the patrollers in Summit/Eagle area resorts do a lot of avalanche control which requires some explosives expertise as well as search and rescue training.
I have witnessed avy dog training as well as avy cannon detonation, which adds a whole different element to Patrolling than what we see among PA patrollers.

 

[abc]

Unless they go around making a big deal of how they think helmets are stupid. Then I'll speak up.
...
I apologize for the rant, but I do feel strongly about helmets.

How many non-helmet wearers goes on about helmet wearing being stupid? Compare to how many helmet wearers goes on about NOT wearing helmet being stupid?

In fact, do non-helmet wearers talk about helmet at all? Unless they are prompted by the helmet wearers talking about helmets in the first place, that is. Who's more likely to "goes on" about whether wearing helmet is stupid or not?

Did someone say this thread shouldn't be about helmets?