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Sizing down extra in boots

SnowHot

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Oh, this echoes my experience. I am a pretty conservative skier, I do not necessarily like to go "fast", but rather it depends on the outlay of the slope and the turn I am trying to make. I am definitely more of a finesse skier. However, I am hyperflexible (double jointed) and my bootfitter told me for my ROM, a higher flex was the way to go. I'm in a 115, though he did warn me that flex was not the same across manufacturers, even boots styles from the same manufacturer. I was in a very low flex 80 boot before and it was definitely too soft.
If someone has a limited or an excessive ankle ROM you put them in a stiffer boot.
If you have limited, then you need the stiffer boot to access the pressure you put into the ski with the limited ROM.
If you have excessive ROM, then you need the boot to "push back" so you can flex the ski.
If you're normal ROM, then any flex could work depending on your personal skiing style, etc.
 

Rachel614

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
That's great your an educated consumer. I'm not an aggressive skier nor fast who only skis groomed so you can't go by the description by the marketer for my Nordicas I ski moderate speeds and ski everything from groomers to ungroomed and just about everything in between. I can know all about boots and what they are known to ski best but until I've gone to a master bootfitter course and am experienced fitter I leave the choice of the boot to the pro.

I'm in the boot I'm in not because i ski fast or agressive on groomers but because it fits my feet the best. My SO is in a race boot not because he's a racer but because he's got narrow ankles and these race boots fit him the best.

It's a lot more than being a product nerd knowing the marketing buzz words tagged with the ski boot.

Trust me I've lots of opinions about lots of things and while it's good to be informed, bootfitting is an art so I leave that to the master.

Many people research a boot and have to go get it fitted which you pay for and then have to go back for tweak after tweak and have to pay for that too. I go to the bootfitter and get my recommendation for a boot by my guy whose also a pedarthist. Any tweaks I need are included so free. All I pay for is the boot

I've spent many a years in the wrong boot and have learned the value of a bootfitter.

Hope you find your happy boot soon.

Ski on.
That’s like going to a car lot and letting someone who’s knowledgable about cars tell you what to buy… and of course they’ll make adjustments for free when you’re paying 2-300 more for the initial pair. Boot fitters didn’t go to a literal school ha and aren’t magical, half are literally just working in a ski shop as a second job….. but that’s cool if you prefer to only buy from them and put all your faith in them. Also I never said Nordicas were for groomers those are known for being good all around the mountain, I said technica mach 1 105’s are reviewed by experts (people who I trust most then your local bootfitter) as being better on groomers then in powder. It’s not memorizing facts it’s reading about ‘experts’ -experiences and descriptions combined with real life personal use. I’ve had 2 boot fitters at the same location recommend total different flex ratings for me ha. Trial and error is the best method
 

mustski

Angel Diva
I think I shocked @mustski when I stuck her in a boot that is a stiff 110+ (has the abilty to have a plate installed to make it 120 flex.
She is a small woman who is not a super aggressive skier. With her limited ROM this boot is perfect for her.

So, you see, you can do a ton of research and read reviews but there is more to it than what you read out there.
I am 64years old and this is the first time I have ever been happy in a ski boot. it's also the first time that I can comfortably go ski after a lunch break. I rarely do ski after lunch, but it is super nice to have the option. Not to mention that numerous people that I have skied with for years pointed out how well I am skiing. Oh ... and I skied a warm up run on Cornice ( Mammoth) with Wayne Wong. Both skiing with Wayne and skiing first run on Cornice were previously unheard of!
 

mustski

Angel Diva
Boot fitters didn’t go to a literal school ha and aren’t magical, half are literally just working in a ski shop as a second job….. but that’s cool if you prefer to only buy from them and put all your faith in them.
Sorry sweetie, but you just have no clue what you are talking about. This just tells me that you have never actually met a boot fitter. No. Salespeople are not boot fitters. Those "experts" you trust are likely visiting boot fitters. There is not a single professional skier in the world who doesn't depend on a world class boot fitter.
 

Rachel614

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I find that interesting.. I don't at all look at what a boot is reviewed to be "best for". I mean yes, the Mach 1 is great for fast carving.. but I also ski mostly off piste in bumps and trees when possible, and I'm more of a finesse than hard charging skier. It did take me a bit to get used to the stiffness in that terrain at first (and I think that might have actually been a comment of the reviews I read the year I got them), since I'm in the 115 and it is stiffer than previous boots I've had.. but it's all good now and I love the control. My boot choice was guided by my bootfitter for my anatomical needs mostly. He also knows what and how I ski of course, but I have a somewhat difficult foot to fit and it is all about that fit due to that. The best fitting and aligned boot is what ultimately performs best for me, wherever I ski them.

I am envious of anyone who has feet that allow them to wear boots out of the box to start. Needing a very low volume boot for most of your foot, when you also have a wide forefoot makes things tough. In a sized down boot I am doubtful I could ski most of them without having that part of the boot modified first. A 96 or 98 last will not fully allow my foot to sit flat in the front of the boot and will either cut off my circulation or cause excruciating pain with skiing from the squeezing.. depending on the boot and exact fit. This is the only real modification I have to start, my fitter stretches that area to shape it to my foot, then I ski for 8-10 days, and go back for anything that pops up and needs tweaking.
Yea that was in the review. And again people who enjoy boot fitters power to them but I prefer spending less buying online, going for the top rated low volume narrow foot, then planning to spend on any modifications needed and still come out ahead financially.
 

Rachel614

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Agreed - being able to select boots based on, well, anything other than a bootfitter telling me "there are 2 models in existence that are even vaguely suited for you and that we will be able to modify enough to make them work for your triangle shaped feet" sounds like some fantasy version of boot shopping to me.

But, they do model ski boots off of someone's feet. Just not mine, LOL. So I suppose if you have that standard shaped foot, perhaps you can shop based off of reviews, or what the boot was supposedly designed for. And then you could demo boots and experiment to see what you like better. I'm also in the "needs irreversible modifications" just to tolerate my foot being in there for a few seconds. And obviously, if you're buying something that feels terrible when you try it on, you had better have an expert that you REALLY trust when they say "don't worry, I can make it fit!"
The whole point of reviews and 10 paragraph long description is to explain what foot shapes and types they do well on….. so no quite the opposite of “if you have a standard foot shape then reviews are any good”. And I guess I have more of a suck it up and break it in type attitude… like with climbing shoes… some pain is needed to maintain that tightness that allows feeling the edges and being precise, and most often the pain goes away after use… my current ski boots took me 30 min to get on my feet when trying on in my living room, and were a little painful to buckle. Now they feel great. Getting needed modification's if needed can still be done without buying directly from a boot fitter
 

Rachel614

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I don't know about financial wins. I do know that fun on the slopes is worth its weight in gold.
With lift ticket prices the only way to have fun on the slopes
Sorry sweetie, but you just have no clue what you are talking about. This just tells me that you have never actually met a boot fitter. No. Salespeople are not boot fitters. Those "experts" you trust are likely visiting boot fitters. There is not a single professional skier in the world who doesn't depend on a world class boot fitter.
Don’t call me sweetie? And boot fitter isn’t a standard person or set education is my point, I’m talking about “boot fitters” near ski resorts etc. They are not the same people that are fitting high end athletes.
 

mustski

Angel Diva
With lift ticket prices the only way to have fun on the slopes

Don’t call me sweetie? And boot fitter isn’t a standard person or set education is my point, I’m talking about “boot fitters” near ski resorts etc. They are not the same people that are fitting high end athletes.
My point exactly is that you need to find a good boot fitter. There are a number of highly renowned ( master boot fitter trained) fitters around the country. You just have to choose to want it. You haven't met one or you would know it.
 
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altagirl

Moderator
Staff member
Yea that was in the review. And again people who enjoy boot fitters power to them but I prefer spending less buying online, going for the top rated low volume narrow foot, then planning to spend on any modifications needed and still come out ahead financially.
I mean, that's the thing. Back in the day, I tried buying boots because the literature and reviews said they sounded right for me. They were intolerable, and it was a total waste of money, and ski days finding out how terrible they were. It wasn't possible to modify them to work for me, as it turned out, and they just got sold at a swap at a near total loss. I learned the hard way that any extra money spent on bootfitting is way more likely money saved than money wasted.
 

SnowHot

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
That’s like going to a car lot and letting someone who’s knowledgable about cars tell you what to buy… and of course they’ll make adjustments for free when you’re paying 2-300 more for the initial pair. Boot fitters didn’t go to a literal school ha and aren’t magical, half are literally just working in a ski shop as a second job….. but that’s cool if you prefer to only buy from them and put all your faith in them. Also I never said Nordicas were for groomers those are known for being good all around the mountain, I said technica mach 1 105’s are reviewed by experts (people who I trust most then your local bootfitter) as being better on groomers then in powder. It’s not memorizing facts it’s reading about ‘experts’ -experiences and descriptions combined with real life personal use. I’ve had 2 boot fitters at the same location recommend total different flex ratings for me ha. Trial and error is the best method
Whew, its the difference between a ski boot salesperson and ski bootfitter.
Sorry you have been dealing with that.
 

Rachel614

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
While its possible you're able to do the research on your own and come to a decent selection for your foot, there is so much more to ski boot fit than the literature you can find out there in the ether.
You mention last width and the Mach 1's....
Last width is only one aspect of the volume of a boot. Vamp, cuff, and heel pocket are other aspects that are not usually addressed in literature.
As a fitter, we take measurements that most skiers don't think about.

Mach 1s...which one? There are several flexes and several volumes available. Some are good for aggressive skiing and others are no where close to being okay for an aggressive skier.

Also, how stiff of a boot a fitter will put you in may have more to do with your physiology such as foot mobility and ankle ROM than how aggressive you are.

I think I shocked @mustski when I stuck her in a boot that is a stiff 110+ (has the abilty to have a plate installed to make it 120 flex.
She is a small woman who is not a super aggressive skier. With her limited ROM this boot is perfect for her.

So, you see, you can do a ton of research and read reviews but there is more to it than what you read out there.
Yes I’ve been measured and been fitted and know what it’s about. All boot fitters end up having opinions based on their own experience and beliefs which may or not be accurate with your needs. For example most boot fitters would probably recommend softer flex based on my experience and size but I bought 115’s and do great. Mach 1 105’s. They seem too specialized them for what I need but def interested in trying one day. I would rather save money from not buying in store and have more fun in trying multiple boots with the money saved than being stuck with 1 pair. Same goes for running shoes… when I started trusting my own intuition and watching reviews and trying multiple shoes I finally found new favorites and still have multiple for depending what type of run I want to do
 

SnowHot

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
@Rachel614 I really feel that you'll find a different experience if you see a "real" bootfitter.
Everything you've posted suggests that you have not had good experiences thus far and I know that life as I was in an area where they didn't really have good options for several years.
When I met him at Crystal Mountain Michigan who did a proper boot fit with me and set me up for success I was elated. He is the person who inspired me to become a fitter.
I recently bumped into him at WSM in Utah and we chatted about where I was and where I've ended up.
He said, "if you want to move back to Michigan I'll fucking hire you!"

I don't think you're a hard person to fit based on your descriptions but I do think you'd benefit from a fit session with someone who knows what their doing.
If you come to Tahoe I'd happily work with you.
 

mustski

Angel Diva
Out of curiosity ... in all those fittings with qualified boot fitters ... what boots did "they" recommend for you AND who were the boot fitters?
BTW .... @SnowHot does not work in a shop. She recommended a boot for me... I bought it online on sale ... and she and her husband made numerous adjustments to make it work right. They even skied with me and made adjustments in the base lodge!
 

Rachel614

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I mean, that's the thing. Back in the day, I tried buying boots because the literature and reviews said they sounded right for me. They were intolerable, and it was a total waste of money, and ski days finding out how terrible they were. It wasn't possible to modify them to work for me, as it turned out, and they just got sold at a swap at a near total loss. I learned the hard way that any extra money spent on bootfitting is way more likely money saved than money wasted.
Well back in the day it seems like options and technology were limited so I’m sure there were plenty sh**ty boots. Along with the fact online shopping wasn’t so popular or easy to save money with even 5 years ago. I’d rather kick myself than want to kick a boot fitter over some boots I don’t like. Reselling youre still likely to get a fair price on eBay
 

Rachel614

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
@Rachel614 I really feel that you'll find a different experience if you see a "real" bootfitter.
Everything you've posted suggests that you have not had good experiences thus far and I know that life as I was in an area where they didn't really have good options for several years.
When I met him at Crystal Mountain Michigan who did a proper boot fit with me and set me up for success I was elated. He is the person who inspired me to become a fitter.
I recently bumped into him at WSM in Utah and we chatted about where I was and where I've ended up.
He said, "if you want to move back to Michigan I'll fucking hire you!"

I don't think you're a hard person to fit based on your descriptions but I do think you'd benefit from a fit session with someone who knows what their doing.
If you come to Tahoe I'd happily work with you.
Thank you for offering… I just feel like as a nurse and athletic person I’m pretty good on judgement and adaptive enough to make boots work for myself, I don’t have anything against the process of boot fitting, I just have too many expensive hobbies to want to spend a ton extra on a pair of boots by buying in store. And again would rather just try multiple models even if I hate half and end up reselling just so that I don’t miss something that ends up working great for me
 

SnowHot

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Out of curiosity ... in all those fittings with qualified boot fitters ... what boots did "they" recommend for you AND who were the boot fitters?
BTW .... @SnowHot does not work in a shop. She recommended a boot for me... I bought it online on sale ... and she and her husband made numerous adjustments to make it work right. They even skied with me and made adjustments in the base lodge!
FWIW I am not afiliated wiht any brand or shop.
I work based on fit, function and performance for the individual.
@mustski is an example of that.

I thoroughly believe that fitting is individual and not brand specific.
 

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