Quad fatigue on mellow slopes

[Christy]

Why do I feel some quad fatigue on gentler slopes but not steeper? This is a fairly recent development; it might have started when I got my Black Pearls, but I'm not sure of that. Any ideas of what this could be caused by? Or maybe somehow my form is not good on less steep slopes anymore?

 

[Serafina]

For me, I sometimes have to remind myself to get "forward" on mellow slopes, but I never need that reminder on steeper terrain. If I'm going into the backseat, which doesn't happen often thank heavens, it's going to be on some green cruiser. I start to zone out, look at the scenery, next thing I know, my quads are giving me the old WTF...

 

[2bjenny]

On the mellow slopes, I tend to get "lazy" on my skis and start to notice quad fatigue particularly in my right leg. Since my weak turn is to the right, I can sometimes overuse my right leg to compensate for not being more forward. As soon as my right leg starts to burn, it's going to be a long day if I don't sort it out...

 

[mustski]

Mellow slopes tend to cause slower skiing and I find it harder to ski slow than fast. I'm not technically savvy enough to understand the reason, but I have experienced that also. I solve it by focusing on reaching more for my pole plants.

 

[2bjenny]

I agree. I tend to forget where my hands are when skiing slow and end up dropping my uphill hand back instead of "reaching" for my pole plants. I have to work a little harder with my legs to turn because I'm in the backseat and having to "catch up."

 

[Christy]

I'll try to really think about technique tomorrow and see what happens. I don't ski slower on these trails, but maybe I get lazy.

 

[Christy]

But the weird thing is, this didn't happen before my current set up. I've gotten new skis, bindings, boots and custom insoles in the last year, and I just can't remember ever having this issue before.

 

[mustski]

That's a lot of new gear. Maybe, it's an adjustment issue. Do your footbeds have heel lifts and, if so, did the boot fitter get a look at your bindings? I absolutely love my heel lifts but there has been a lot of chatter here lately about them leading to "back seat" issues for some women.

ETA: I did experience this more in my old boots which had a much less upright stance.

 

[Christy]

I need to experiment with taking the heel lift out. Today I used my old footbeds without lifts rather than the new ones. I think I'm having an issue staying forward on my BPs in general, except on steeper slopes, which seems odd. I've been fiddling around trying to figure things out. Yesterday I put 12 strips of duct tape under my boots at the toes at the suggestion of my fitter to erase the binding differential, and that made me more balanced in general.

The more I think about it, it seems really unlikely that my form is that great on steeper slopes.

 

[mustski]

I wish they would just make all bindings with the same ramp angle. That way we wouldn't have to make adjustments inside out boots to compensate for different ramp angles on different sets of skis. It's just annoying. Good luck.

 

[Skisailor]

Hi Christy! If things changed with your new setup it really sounds like your ramp angle changed. So it seems like the duct tape experiment is a good one.

About the difference on mellow slopes - could it be that on mellow stuff you tend to open up your hip socket more? I mean stand up straighter with your torso? I think that's a natural thing for us all to do. And that straighter up torso might no longer match your lower leg angle - hence the quad fatigue.

When on steep slopes do you bend forward at the waist just a bit more? That's a naturally more aggressive stance that might match that lower leg angle.

Just a guess.

 

[MaineSkiLady]

All of the above could be contributing - but in addition, I offer that just easy cruising involves static (versus dynamic) engaged muscles. That alone can produce fatigue. I have noticed it (in absence of any equipment changes) myself early in the season.

 

[DanniAB]

For me, I sometimes have to remind myself to get "forward" on mellow slopes, but I never need that reminder on steeper terrain.

Your question is interesting, for I also experience the same phenomenon.

This quoted answer is interesting, because that's exactly what happens!

 

[Christy]

Hi Christy! If things changed with your new setup it really sounds like your ramp angle changed. So it seems like the duct tape experiment is a good one.

About the difference on mellow slopes - could it be that on mellow stuff you tend to open up your hip socket more? I mean stand up straighter with your torso? I think that's a natural thing for us all to do. And that straighter up torso might no longer match your lower leg angle - hence the quad fatigue.

When on steep slopes do you bend forward at the waist just a bit more? That's a naturally more aggressive stance that might match that lower leg angle.

Just a guess.

I am bent more at the waist and have a more aggressive stance on steeper slopes, but how could I have the same kind of stance on a green run-out?

I did practice making pretty turns this morning on the easier runs and it was fine. So I guess it isn't all the time I have an issue. But later when I got tired, wow. Ouch. I looked for the steepest way down. And I still had so much fun on steeper runs I hated to quit, but the thought of the inevitable green run-out made me call it a day sooner than I otherwise would have.

So this...

All of the above could be contributing - but in addition, I offer that just easy cruising involves static (versus dynamic) engaged muscles. That alone can produce fatigue. I have noticed it (in absence of any equipment changes) myself early in the season.

...is very interesting.

Though I still need to figure out why this is happening now, but it didn't used to.

And I also have my husband reminding me that Sun Valley always wears me out, though the different pitches wore me out equally before.

 

[snow addict]

This is strange. BP would generally let you know you are not forward enough before you develop quad fatigue.

 

[Skisailor]

I am bent more at the waist and have a more aggressive stance on steeper slopes, but how could I have the same kind of stance on a green run-out?

It's about that matching angles concept so it's a relative thing. Whether you are fully flexed or fully extended, you still want to be balanced over the balls of your feet and using all 3 leg joints - hip, knee and ankle - to match your angles: ankle to knee, knee to hip, hip to shoulders. If your torso is too straight up and down relative to your lower leg angle you are in the back seat and you will likely have quad burn. Sometimes it's a very subtle adjustment - for example, bending or flexing your hip joint just an inch or two to match up your angles can make all the difference.

I'm somewhat passionate on this subject because I was the poster child for quad burn for years and years until I learned this concept and then bought new boots which made it easier to keep those angles matched up.

Now I ski from first chair to last chair with no quad fatigue even though I avoid off season strengthening regimens like the plague!! Lol.

 

[Skisailor]

https://www.theskidiva.com/forums/index.php?threads/some-ski-porn-for-us-snow-deprived.18334/page-2

If you haven't seen this thread check it out. If you have, you may want to re read it in light of your current problem.

Much better explanation than I can give!

 

[Christy]

This is strange. BP would generally let you know you are not forward enough before you develop quad fatigue.

How so? I am actually wondering if these are a little long for me. I have the 166 (5'4", 116). Sometimes my tips feel squirrelly. I didn't have that problem with other skis. My next move is to use my old Lottas with my new boots to see what happens.

 

[MaineSkiLady]

How so? I am actually wondering if these are a little long for me. I have the 166 (5'4", 116). Sometimes my tips feel squirrelly. I didn't have that problem with other skis. My next move is to use my old Lottas with my new boots to see what happens.

Similar stats as you, a little bigger @ 5'6/118. Ditto the 166. How: because there is considerable tip rocker on the Black Pearl. In order to engage the tips, a lot of forward pressure on the tips is required. I don’t think it’s the actual length of the ski that’s a problem - but the huge tip rocker is.

I was going to mention this before things got uber-technical with stance discussion. Your idea of switching up skis is a good one. Next up, if possible/feasible, would be to try your old boots with new skis. Process of elimination?

I was skiing tough conditions (very heavy snow, slick where groomed, mashed and refrozen where not), and the amount of forward pressure I had to exert on the skis to maintain tip contact - and in a new, more upright boot cuff - created intense shin burn and pain, the likes of which I haven’t felt in decades. It’s 10 days later, and some of the muscles around one shin are STILL sore.

Conditions were nowhere near this tough the next time out, but I was back in old (still fairly new) boots and old skis. No issues, not like this. Next up for me is new boots/old skis.

 

[snow addict]

If you

How so? I am actually wondering if these are a little long for me. I have the 166 (5'4", 116). Sometimes my tips feel squirrelly. I didn't have that problem with other skis. My next move is to use my old Lottas with my new boots to see what happens.

if your tips feel "squirrelly" it's the sign that you need to get forward. Just pay attention and do it and your quads will be fine. BP are very good at that - they let you know immediately and let you recover form without trying to get your ligaments. The length is ok. I don't think shorter ski will behave differently if weight is not forward. Don't forget that tail is also soft and rockered, and shorter length will bring it closer. This tail won't like a skier sitting back either. Just replicate the form you have on steeper slopes on greens and you will be fine.