Question: How hard are lessons supposed to be?

[Jilly]

For group lessons, 6 or 7 students is normal. Any instructor worth their pay can do it. In a lot of cases the same problem can be prevalent in a couple of students. It's when there is a big gap in skill set that the issues start. I've taught lessons like that. You really don't want to teach to the bottom of the group, so you have to find a happy medial that is good for everyone.

 

[mmtyler]

I'm not at your level, but I've been the slowest in groups so I know how you feel. They should move you if it's an issue, so I'm sure you're fine. My experience its actually hard to find a lesson where everyone really skis good together.

 

[mustski]

Wow! You did sign up for a hard lesson. 5.5 hours on blacks, even in the best conditions is going to be an athletic day. No escaping that fact.

The bummer was that you were the one at the bottom of the group. I hate being "the worst skier " in the group for exactly the same reasons you outlined. If you had been in the middle to top of the group you would still feel exhausted but I don't think your confidence would be impacted as it is.

Out of the 5, what place did you ski down? Did you go last? It sounds like you did as you felt you were holding every body up. Next time, I would ski down first or second behind the instructor.

Yes!It is easy to feel that you should go last because you are the slowest when the reality is that you should go first. That way, no one is waiting for you. You are waiting for everyone else. Remember, if you go last, they all get to rest longer than you. Go first, so you get the rest time. You will ski better if less exhausted.

YES! this is it! this is EXACTLY what happened. They're all chatting and getting feedback, and when I get there, I get the bullet point about the conversation, theyre rested and I have to keep moving. This is exactly what it is.

If you go first, you will her all the conversations and not a bullet point summary. When we ski in mixed groups, we try to take turns going first. That way everyone gets to lead.

 

[vickie]

I wasn't more than 20-25 turns behind the group. But there were a few times on some of the more (for me) challenging runs where everyone was done and waiting at the bottom for minutes - the worst time was probably somewhere between 5 and 10 minutes.

A lot of this story bothers me, but the part above is the worst. If you are 20-25 turns behind or if you are 5-10 minutes behind the rest of the group, I doubt the instructor can even SEE what you're doing in order to teach you. You're not in a lesson ... you're out there skiing by yourself. (I could be wrong. That's just how it feels.)

Talk to the ski school. (You could print your comments from here and hand it to them.) The instructor(s) may be trying to get a re-division, but the school might not listen. It costs them money to send another instructor out. If the school learns that you are dissatisfied -- and if they learn that the entire group feels cheated -- they may be more likely to do something. Might also help for some of the others in your group to complain to the ski school. Might be good to let the instructor and your lesson group know that you are going to, or did, complain.

If your group lays this problem at the ski school's doorstep -- and they are the only ones who can fix it -- it may reduce any tension, perceived or real, that exists between you and the other members of your lesson group.

I believe the ski school will do the right thing if they are convinced this is not just some minor problem.

 

[vickie]

If you talk to the ski school, be clear about what you would consider as acceptable solutions ... new group that covers your ability level, or full refund of your lesson cost (since you did not get reasonable value from the first one), or ....

 

[Albertan ski girl]

Thanks everyone for your feedback. I think for the time being, I'm going to stay in the group I'm in and see how the next lesson goes. And I'll keep an open line of communication with the instructor. The forecast shows sunny skies and not much new snow, so I'll see how the next round goes if the conditions are a little less challenging (i.e. I can see) and we focus a little bit more on technique. And then, if I'm still feeling overwhelmed, I will go and speak to the ski school.

Oh, and I will definitely keep you all updated about how it goes next week!

 

[Albertan ski girl]

Ok - everyone, I thought I would give an update on the rest of my 4 pack lessons.

So, the first day I described and today (the last, 4th day of lessons) were the hardest. I can definitely say that I learned a TON. My instructor is a really technical skier, and to tell you honestly, we basically have been working on turns for the past three lessons. All sorts of things about turns - shape, speed, terrain, angulation, compression etc. And my lessons could be summed up as entirely focusing on improving our turns.

It turns out that, I think, this was exactly what I needed. The first powder day lesson was hard. The next two were on bluebird-ish packed powder groomers and soft bumps, and were much easier because of conditions. And all we worked on were turns! I learned I had a lot to work on - my shoulders, how I enter the turn, making my pole plant better (apparently my timing was off and i don't go low enough!), etc etc. Well, today, on the last day, we had another powder day! And we skied trees, bumps, steeps and powder all day...and I can say that I think all of that turn work has really really paid off.

I don't know if I looked better skiing everything today - but I felt so much better. I felt like a boss on bumps. I skied tree runs tighter and steeper than I ever had before. The highlight of the day today - our instructor took us on a 15 minute hike over to a bowl I never would have skied 4 weeks ago. It's technically listed as a single black - but the entry is really hairy and steep, and lots of big boulders to avoid, and the snow there gets really really deep. We've had quite a storm cycle over the past 4 days, and the top of this bowl was untracked, maybe 60 cm deep, and the first 3-4 turns were the hardest. But I did it! And I think I felt what bottomless pow feels like! And then I fell over but it was really easy to get up because basically my feet were right under me because the snow was so deep. And then the bottom of the run was really easy. All of the my classmates fell at least once on the run, so I didn't feel too bad about my fall.

We ended off the day skiing some mellow but fun bump runs, and my only regret about these lessons is that they're over I totally want to do this again next year!

 

[Crr]

Ok - everyone, I thought I would give an update on the rest of my 4 pack lessons.

So, the first day I described and today (the last, 4th day of lessons) were the hardest. I can definitely say that I learned a TON. My instructor is a really technical skier, and to tell you honestly, we basically have been working on turns for the past three lessons. All sorts of things about turns - shape, speed, terrain, angulation, compression etc. And my lessons could be summed up as entirely focusing on improving our turns.

It turns out that, I think, this was exactly what I needed. The first powder day lesson was hard. The next two were on bluebird-ish packed powder groomers and soft bumps, and were much easier because of conditions. And all we worked on were turns! I learned I had a lot to work on - my shoulders, how I enter the turn, making my pole plant better (apparently my timing was off and i don't go low enough!), etc etc. Well, today, on the last day, we had another powder day! And we skied trees, bumps, steeps and powder all day...and I can say that I think all of that turn work has really really paid off.

I don't know if I looked better skiing everything today - but I felt so much better. I felt like a boss on bumps. I skied tree runs tighter and steeper than I ever had before. The highlight of the day today - our instructor took us on a 15 minute hike over to a bowl I never would have skied 4 weeks ago. It's technically listed as a single black - but the entry is really hairy and steep, and lots of big boulders to avoid, and the snow there gets really really deep. We've had quite a storm cycle over the past 4 days, and the top of this bowl was untracked, maybe 60 cm deep, and the first 3-4 turns were the hardest. But I did it! And I think I felt what bottomless pow feels like! And then I fell over but it was really easy to get up because basically my feet were right under me because the snow was so deep. And then the bottom of the run was really easy. All of the my classmates fell at least once on the run, so I didn't feel too bad about my fall.

We ended off the day skiing some mellow but fun bump runs, and my only regret about these lessons is that they're over I totally want to do this again next year!

Wow I loved hearing this update and an ecstatic for you! What a great report and I’m sure you are a boss now at turns and powder. That bowl you mention sounds amazing, where was that? Or is it a secret powder stash ? Anyways wonderful job to you and happy skiing!

 

[Albertan ski girl]

Wow I loved hearing this update and an ecstatic for you! What a great report and I’m sure you are a boss now at turns and powder. That bowl you mention sounds amazing, where was that? Or is it a secret powder stash ? Anyways wonderful job to you and happy skiing!

Hey @Crr - not a secret powder stash. Do you know Paris Basin? You basically get off the chair at Wawa, and then hike left for about 15 minutes and drop in. I don't think the hike is usually that long - I think it took us longer because of how much snow there was, and because we had to break trail. If you look at Paris basin from the wawa chair (over to the far left), you'll see several cliff bands. If you scan left past those cliff bands, you'll see a kind of gully or chute - that's where we entered. It was totally untracked on the upper part - I think that's largely because people don't go over that far. They stay closer to the Wawa lift. Not sure if that description makes sense. Another way of visualizing where it is is that it is the gully pretty much directly in line with the run-out to Waterfall.

Looking forward to going back there again soon!

And, I don't know if I would actually call myself the boss of bumps - but it does feel so much better skiing them! I'm looking forward to trying some bigger icy bumps with the new skills I've learned.

 

[VickiK]

Fantastic - so glad it worked out!

 

[Jenny]

Good for you!

 

[marzNC]

So, the first day I described and today (the last, 4th day of lessons) were the hardest. I can definitely say that I learned a TON. My instructor is a really technical skier, and to tell you honestly, we basically have been working on turns for the past three lessons. All sorts of things about turns - shape, speed, terrain, angulation, compression etc. And my lessons could be summed up as entirely focusing on improving our turns.

It turns out that, I think, this was exactly what I needed. The first powder day lesson was hard. The next two were on bluebird-ish packed powder groomers and soft bumps, and were much easier because of conditions. And all we worked on were turns! I learned I had a lot to work on - my shoulders, how I enter the turn, making my pole plant better (apparently my timing was off and i don't go low enough!), etc etc. Well, today, on the last day, we had another powder day! And we skied trees, bumps, steeps and powder all day...and I can say that I think all of that turn work has really really paid off.

Thanks for the update. Sounds like a pretty good experience overall.

 

[newboots]

OH yeah! You are now officially THE Boss of Bumps!

 

[Albertan ski girl]

OH yeah! You are now officially THE Boss of Bumps!

Lol. that was funny!


And...if anyone is going to be at Sunshine Village anytime soon, I defintely have suggestions for good instructors if you are interested in lessons!

 

[marymack]

So glad it ended up being such a worthwhile experience...just want to point out:

And all we worked on were turns!

as I tell my students when they complain "can't we just go straight!" "why do we have to work on turns"....I say, well all skiing is is turning! Going straight is just sliding, might as well go sledding. haha. There really is so much finesse to getting that perfect turn and when it happens, well skiing becomes effortless!

 

[Jenny]

Lol. that was funny!


And...if anyone is going to be at Sunshine Village anytime soon, I defintely have suggestions for good instructors if you are interested in lessons!

Will they still be doing any lessons in April?

 

[Albertan ski girl]

Will they still be doing any lessons in April?

Oh yeah - lessons run until 3rd weekend in May!

 

[marzNC]

@Albertan ski girl : when the instructor was having the group do drills, did you learn about places to practice certain drills?

For the lessons I have at my home hill (Massanutten in northern VA), learning which trails or sections of a trail to practice a drill related to a fundamental skill has been very useful. Most of the trails have double fall lines and change pitch. The group clinic sessions are usually on blue runs, even though the Gold Clinic is for advanced skiers (Level 6-8 out of 9-pt scale). The semi-private lesson I had with the Examiner on staff recently started on the harder green. I learned how moving one hip correctly should feel on the green. It was a small adjustment but key. After a couple runs on the green, then I could replicate the move on on steeper pitch. Several years ago, another Aha Moment happened on the same green when my coach was trying to get a man doing the Over 50 Clinic to do a basic drill correctly.

 

[Crr]

Lol. that was funny!


And...if anyone is going to be at Sunshine Village anytime soon, I defintely have suggestions for good instructors if you are interested in lessons!

My husband just injured his mcl and is out for the rest of the season, so I thought about your post and maybe will get brave and go myself and take lessons since we have seasons passes. I am afraid to try the group thing cause I would likely be the worst of the blacks and I wouldn’t be happy but if you have some names maybe I will see about semi private or private. I am similar to you, can get down most blacks but need work on turns , finesse, etc so I thought your insights on who would be best for me would be very helpful. I usually like a more mature individual since I am ahem ... a mature lady (really just means over 50 and classified according to din ratings as official old lol!) . Thanks so much !

 

[Albertan ski girl]

Hi @Crr - I'll PM you!