High speed pivot slip?

[canadianjem]

I was just perusing EpicSki....
I was reading a tread titled "high speed pivot slip"...WTF???
I was thinking to myself this morning.."Boy, are you getting good fast! And you did it all by yourself".... Insert pat on back,high five, and a smidgen of gloat here.....
As I read this thread, my big head instantly deflated and I felt a bit like
How do I know if I am doing this " High speed pivot slip" or actually carving?
It feel like I am carving...Every turn i make i feel the inside edge of my downhill ski cutting in the snow.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated...

 

[Skier31]

Pivot slips are a drill using pure rotary action - no carving. Pivot slips are a higher level drill that look easy but are difficult to do correctly.

How do you know you are doing them? Find a Level 3 instructor or above to watch you and let you know if you are doing them. I think there should be some examples on the PSIA website. I will see if I can locate a link for you.

 

[Skier31]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=SG&feature=related&hl=en-GB&v=iUuCWQ_2WOo

 

[abc]

How do I know if I am doing this " High speed pivot slip" or actually carving?
It feel like I am carving...Every turn i make i feel the inside edge of my downhill ski cutting in the snow.:

You're probably doing a combination of both carving and slipping. Typical of many skiers.

How to tell?

Find a quiet run right after they groomed it. Do a few turns. Look back at your track, especially the part when you were heading down hill.

More likely than not, you'll find the track at the top and bottom of the turn, when you're going across the hill, are clean lines like a pair of railroad tracks. While the part of the turn you were going down the hill, your tracks might look like a set of wide 4x4 tire tracks: your edge were slipping!

 

[bounceswoosh]

Pivot slips are a little like the falling leaf drill, if you've done that ...?

 

[canadianjem]

From what I have read on the aforementioned thread.... Pivot slips mean I have no idea what I am doing?! I think
Also, I ave no idea what a falling leaf is in skiing....snowboarding ...yes

 

[abc]

Also, I ave no idea what a falling leaf is in skiing....snowboarding ...yes

Same.

Imagine you've only got one ski (on your downhill foot)...

 

[bounceswoosh]

Falling leaf is somewhat described here: https://sports.specialolympics.org/...ach/Coaching/Alpine_S/Teaching/Alpine_S-2.htm

I think of it as a technique for avoiding trees =) You can use it to "back out of" a bad line in the bumps. It requires good edge control, in that you practice not using your edges.

I am not great at pivot slips, but the animation here pretty much says it all. Again, the ability to not apply your edges is crucial: https://www.epicski.com/t/79108/pivot-slip

 

[KatyPerrey]

Pivot slips are a little like the falling leaf drill, if you've done that ...?

Sorry but pivot slips are nothing like falling leaf if done correctly!!

 

[KatyPerrey]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=SG&feature=related&hl=en-GB&v=iUuCWQ_2WOo

Great find Skier31!

 

[Downunder Diva]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=SG&feature=related&hl=en-GB&v=iUuCWQ_2WOo

Great vid Skier31

 

[bounceswoosh]

Sorry but pivot slips are nothing like falling leaf if done correctly!!

Do you agree they both involve learning how to release your edges?

(As I mentioned, I am not the world's best pivot slipper ... so maybe I've missed the point ... DH is a world champion poster child of the pivot slip drill, and I only hate him a little for it.)

 

[KatyPerrey]

Pivot slips are a rotary movement not an edging movement so there is no releasing of edges.

 

[bounceswoosh]

Pivot slips are a rotary movement not an edging movement so there is no releasing of edges.

First, I am not trying to be difficult! Honest! Just trying to understand what you're saying.

Second - in order to do a rotary movement, don't you need to be not on your edges - meaning you have to release your edges at some point? Maybe I just meant "not on your edges," but "releasing" sounded better. But perhaps less accurate. Whether or not you are on your edges before you start, a pivot slip requires not being on your edges - right? Or wrong?

 

[Jilly]

BW - did you watch the video? The lower body is going side to side the upper body is facing downhill. Right there is no edging, this is for counter rotation and stance and balance.

Gotta see what you ladies are calling "falling leaf".

 

[vickie]

Gotta see what you ladies are calling "falling leaf".

For those (like me) who need to read/hear the details of "how" ...
https://www.ehow.com/how_2036662_falling-leaf-technique-skiing.html

 

[bounceswoosh]

BW - did you watch the video? The lower body is going side to side the upper body is facing downhill. Right there is no edging, this is for counter rotation and stance and balance.

Gotta see what you ladies are calling "falling leaf".

Right. I'm just clarifying my understanding because Katy specifically said you don't release your edges. In my mind, the default is at least some edge, so not using edges translated to releasing them. So I'm trying to clarify what I think is more a difference of terminology (with mine being inferior) than a difference in understanding ... but if I'm wrong about that and I fundamentally misunderstand the drill, well, that would be good to know, too! Like I said, DH loves the drill and I struggle with it - maybe the reason I say it's "like" falling leaf is because I tend to not have the fore/aft balance correct, and/or catch a bit of edge, so I end up sliding forward, which easily leads to sliding backwards to "correct" myself back into my intended "lane," sort of falling-leaf-ish. If I were doing pivot slips correctly, I believe I wouldn't drift out of my "lane."

Sorry for the derail! This is just an exercise that has vexed me since last season, so if I don't understand it, that could explain a lot! But I think it's just that I don't have excellent balance and edge control.

 

[snow addict]

I love pivot slips ever since my instructor showed me how to do them. Before I go to some really difficult terrain I try to do my mountain top to bottom on pivot slips. Takes much longer but inspires amazing confidence once I feel I can bring my skis around without edging. Good drill for moguls too.

 

[KatyPerrey]

Right. I'm just clarifying my understanding because Katy specifically said you don't release your edges. In my mind, the default is at least some edge, so not using edges translated to releasing them. So I'm trying to clarify what I think is more a difference of terminology (with mine being inferior) than a difference in understanding ... but if I'm wrong about that and I fundamentally misunderstand the drill, well, that would be good to know, too!

No problem bounceswoosh! but I will ask- How do you release an edge when you are not on the edge??

The drill is "pivot slips" and if you watch the video that skier31 posted it shows NO edging! Hence NO releasing of the edges! Again it's a "Rotary Movement" drill not an "Edging Movement" drill.

 

[abc]

I'm confused though.

1) the definition of pivot slip was "linked side slip...".

I always thought side slip has edge components. That's how we slow down in tight space, is it not?

2) I can keep the ski flat by standing tall and facing the tip. But it's really awkward to NOT tip the ski on edge when facing sideways.

Granted, that might be part of my problem of why I can't seem to be able to do a flat 360!