Dealing with osteopenia, ways to increase bone density

[marzNC]

I am taking the route of a good vit D supplement (have been on gel caps for years now) and a green smoothie a day, loaded with organic leafy greens to get additional calcium. I eat a lot of dairy (whole dairy!) This way I feel I am ensuring I am getting bio-available forms of calcium vs. a giant tablet that may or may not be absorbed. And with the way glyphosate chelates minerals from the soil, I feel organic is the only way to go.

Green smoothie sounds like a good idea. I've found that balancing nutrition certainly can get complicated when there are competing priorities. I like cheese, but the types I like are not the best choice if being careful for cardio reasons. Not an issue for me, but something my husband is watching.

Here is the recent article from Time mag about calcium supplements:
https://time.com/4053338/calcium-supplements-bone-health/

Thanks for the link. Don't have time to read the medical journal articles referenced in the article right now. Looks like one is a review of studies, then a meta-analysis with "risk of fracture" as the outcome, published in Sept 2015.

 

[contesstant]

I think the gist of the studies point to the fact that taking the supplements show such a SMALL POSSIBLE increase in bone density (like 1% at most) that the possible side effects from them (kidney stones, heart disease) make them not worth it. And of course the supplement industry loves to fund studies to the contrary.

I am a big believer in tangible things like exercise and eating an overall balanced diet (and yes, I love chocolate and as I said, cheese!) I've also found a local gal who will deliver farm fresh eggs to me weekly so have ramped up my egg intake. And I am addicted to the smoothies!

 

[sibhusky]

At 63 I've had a lot of Dexascans by now. They've come back "normal", but two back the doctor said I'd shown bone loss, but I was told normal. So, naturally I was stunned to hear this. I guess "normal" is not "youngster" at my age. He didn't feel I needed drugs yet and at the time my migraines were such a mess that adding more chemicals to the mix was not on my list of things to do. He knows I ski a lot and doesn't seem concerned, but we haven't discussed the last scan, I only got the results from the test. I've been taking calcium for years. I don't drink soft drinks, just Pellegrino or beer. I usually have eggs every morning. Am not an exercise fanatic at all. After breaking two wrists and a knee cap I asked the surgeon if I had a bone problem. He said I had a problem slamming things at high speed into inanimate objects. So not particularly worried yet.

 

[marzNC]

Came across a wellness website with an article 10 Ways to Prevent or Reverse Osteoporosis
that touches on several points to consider in terms of nutrition/diet related to calcium absorption. Not sure #10 about what weight is enough makes sense based on what I'm finding elsewhere but the others are worth knowing about. The fact that the body uses calcium from bones to maintain the proper acidity balance is something I came across elsewhere. Human bodies are such complicated systems!

1. Stop the Pop!
Carbonated beverages such as soft drinks, Champagne, and sparkling water leach calcium from your bones. A Harvard study on 16 to 20 year-old women showed that half of them were already showing bone loss as a result of excess soft drink intake. Carbonated beverages also have excess phosphates, which cause even more calcium loss.

2. Cut down on Protein
Excess protein intake causes acidity in the body, which in turn causes calcium to be lost in the urine. Most people need only two to 4 ounces of lean protein, three times a day. The average American diet contains two to three times this much.

3. Keep Your Stomach Acid!
Many people are on acid blocking drugs, such as Nexium, Protonix, Prevacid, Tagamet, and Zantac, for problems such as heartburn and hiatal hernia. Stomach acid is necessary to absorb minerals such as calcium, magnesium, and zinc. Blocking stomach acid significantly increases the risk of osteoporosis.

These drugs were meant to be used for six to eight weeks at a time, not for years at a time! In fact, most heartburn symptoms are not due to excess stomach acid. Two thirds of the patients on acid blocking agents have too little stomach acid, not too much!

4. Cut out Caffeine!
Each cup of coffee that you drink makes you lose 150 mg of calcium in your urine. Chemically decaffeinated coffee is not the answer either though, because it contains harmful chemicals that interfere with the detoxification process. Naturally decaffeinated teas are a better option, but if you must drink caffeinated coffee, at least increase your calcium intake by 150 mg for each cup you drink.

 

[contesstant]

At 63 I've had a lot of Dexascans by now. They've come back "normal", but two back the doctor said I'd shown bone loss, but I was told normal. So, naturally I was stunned to hear this. I guess "normal" is not "youngster" at my age. He didn't feel I needed drugs yet and at the time my migraines were such a mess that adding more chemicals to the mix was not on my list of things to do. He knows I ski a lot and doesn't seem concerned, but we haven't discussed the last scan, I only got the results from the test. I've been taking calcium for years. I don't drink soft drinks, just Pellegrino or beer. I usually have eggs every morning. Am not an exercise fanatic at all. After breaking two wrists and a knee cap I asked the surgeon if I had a bone problem. He said I had a problem slamming things at high speed into inanimate objects. So not particularly worried yet.

Cheers to beers!

 

[artistinsuburbia]

you know this brings to mind a discussion I had with the pediatrician once. My middle child was allergic to dairy and so getting in calcium was a concern. Doc looked at me and said..."teach her to eat leafy greens, where do you think the cow got it?" And I am still convinced of her answer to this day...cows, such large mammals, don't nurse forever, yet their bones are sustained on miniscule blades of grass.

 

[marzNC]

Here is the recent article from Time mag about calcium supplements:
https://time.com/4053338/calcium-supplements-bone-health/

I think the gist of the studies point to the fact that taking the supplements show such a SMALL POSSIBLE increase in bone density (like 1% at most) that the possible side effects from them (kidney stones, heart disease) make them not worth it. And of course the supplement industry loves to fund studies to the contrary.

Have looked more at the articles referenced in the Time article. The "studies" were not clinical trials. They were analyses based on meta-data taken from as many studies as possible that fit certain criteria. All the studies were selected because they compared the risk of fracture between groups. No data was considered related to measuring the change in bone density of the subjects. That's my reading as a statistician who worked in the pharmaceutical industry. Although more based on grad school courses than professional work since I was more interested in the data that goes into an analysis, as opposed to the analysis methodology itself.

That's not to say there aren't studies that show that the risk-benefit of high levels of calcium supplements is such that it should not be the first approach for dealing with bone loss.

In any case, with all supplements the question is always "how much?" because too much of any medication or vitamin is toxic in some way.

Given all the complications that go with medications and supplements, personally I'm much more interested in exploring the exercises that have shown clear benefit. In particular because exercises can target specific areas such as the spine or the hip. In my case, I only have to add exercises that will help build bone in the spine. The studies about heavier weight at fewer reps (<5) that I've looked at so far are pretty clear. That also matches with what my personal trainer learned a while back as she got into the business after retiring from being a teacher for almost 30 years. I'll post more when I have some references organized.

 

[marzNC]

As for weights, I have a whole regimen that I do, and the weights vary according to the exercise. I don't go really heavy -- just enough to feel like I'm getting a workout and not enough to strain myself -- and I generally do 12 reps in a set (and generally 3 sets of a particular exercise). There's a good article on how much weight to use here.

Took a look at the article and noticed that while there was mention of building strength, muscle, or muscle endurance, there is no mention of building bone.

"Keep in mind that how many reps you do can be just as important as how heavy your weights are, explains Justice. If you want to increase strength, go for 1-8 reps per set. If you want to build muscle, go for 5-12 reps per set. And if you want to improve muscle endurance, go for 12-20 reps per set."

What I was doing with my personal trainer last week was starting to figure out how heavy I could go for various exercises using dumbbells or a kettlebell. If I can do 12-15 reps, then the weight is too light for the purpose of building bone. She wants enough weight that doing 8 is pretty much the maximum possible for a set. For the single arm lift, I started with 10 lbs to get the form figured out. I should know in a few weeks what weight makes sense for the next few months. I'm working with her weekly until my ski season starts in earnest in early Jan.

There has be to stress in order to simulate bone growth. That's why the video shows a 66yo woman with a 26 lb kettlebell, not 12 lb. Also why it's very important to work up to heavier weights and can be better to work with someone else who can help make sure that correct form is used.

 

[Pequenita]

.cows, such large mammals, don't nurse forever, yet their bones are sustained on miniscule blades of grass.

I think cows also have the whole being heavy thing that helps with bone density. But, yes to the calcium part.

 

[contesstant]

Have looked more at the articles referenced in the Time article. The "studies" were not clinical trials. They were analyses based on meta-data taken from as many studies as possible that fit certain criteria. All the studies were selected because they compared the risk of fracture between groups. No data was considered related to measuring the change in bone density of the subjects. That's my reading as a statistician who worked in the pharmaceutical industry. Although more based on grad school courses than professional work since I was more interested in the data that goes into an analysis, as opposed to the analysis methodology itself.

That's not to say there aren't studies that show that the risk-benefit of high levels of calcium supplements is such that it should not be the first approach for dealing with bone loss.

In any case, with all supplements the question is always "how much?" because too much of any medication or vitamin is toxic in some way.

Given all the complications that go with medications and supplements, personally I'm much more interested in exploring the exercises that have shown clear benefit. In particular because exercises can target specific areas such as the spine or the hip. In my case, I only have to add exercises that will help build bone in the spine. The studies about heavier weight at fewer reps (<5) that I've looked at so far are pretty clear. That also matches with what my personal trainer learned a while back as she got into the business after retiring from being a teacher for almost 30 years. I'll post more when I have some references organized.

Yes, me too.

 

[marzNC]

Some thoughts about when to get the first bone density test . . . per usual just my personal opinion (not a medical professional).

Found out that a friend who is about my age started having bone density tests in her 40s because it was offered for free by her employer (a big pharma company). Results came out normal until the last one, which was a few years after menopause. Bottom line is that she was not thinking that any extra effort would be needed. Obviously she can start weight bearing/resistance exercises to build bone now, but it would've been better to start doing something beyond good nutrition 10 years ago.

Good to have a baseline in order to be able to track how your personal bone density numbers change over time. To me, that says it's good to have a bone density test done before any menopause symptoms. Or at least discuss with your physician sooner (40+) rather than later (65+). If your health insurance covers a bone density screening test after age 50, then probably worth doing before age 60. It's quick, maybe 15 min once you are in the room with the scanner. Pretty much just lie on a table for 5-10 min.

All humans lose bone after a certain age. Just the way the body works. It's a slow process that happens over years, not months. Waiting until there is a clear symptom--a first broken bone from a minor fall or a curved spine--to have a bone density test is not a good idea.

 

[Swamp Dog]

you know this brings to mind a discussion I had with the pediatrician once. My middle child was allergic to dairy and so getting in calcium was a concern. Doc looked at me and said..."teach her to eat leafy greens, where do you think the cow got it?" And I am still convinced of her answer to this day...cows, such large mammals, don't nurse forever, yet their bones are sustained on miniscule blades of grass.

thanks for this. I've been saying this for years. Milk is great. If you're a calf. We are the only species who drinks another specie's milk for most of our lives. Just weird if you ask me. There is more than an adequate supply of calcium in leafy greens. We just have to eat them.

 

[Gloria]

Took a look at the article and noticed that while there was mention of building strength, muscle, or muscle endurance, there is no mention of building bone.

Depending on how advanced the bone loss is, there I a transition in programming from building bone to protecting what is remaining. At that point strength training supercedes to prevent falls etc and less weight is used to prevent breaks.

 

[marzNC]

Depending on how advanced the bone loss is, there I a transition in programming from building bone to protecting what is remaining. At that point strength training supercedes to prevent falls etc and less weight is used to prevent breaks.

Certainly a different situation if someone is not diagnosed until they have osteoporosis. At that point, even doing certain pilates moves is a bad idea. Tai chi is a good idea at any stage.

Personally, I'm much more interested in learning about the kind of exercises that can help to build bone for someone on the edge of osteopenia, or young enough that they can still build up a higher bone mineral density (BMD) before the inevitable bone loss starts by age 40 or a bit before. There are plenty of comparison studies that show significant results after 6 months or a year of effort on the part of the group doing a specific exercise regimen. I'm looking for studies that measured bone density, as opposed to studies that use risk of fracture as the outcome. Since it's such a problem, there are studies done where the subjects are all post-menopausal women.

 

[Gloria]

I can't think of any right off the top of my head but the ones I've read usually compare different loading techniques and such. Try adding the term axial loading to your searches and see if anything comes up. Contraindicated, along length of bone would be a couple others that might pull up what you need.

 

[altagirl]

This thread made me think of a friend who was suffering a lot of broken bones from mountain biking. At first, you think, well impacts do that, but it was weird bones, like his humerus, and from minor falls. I think he was like 35 at the time? Turned out to be osteoporosis. Which is definitely not the first thing you expect in a relatively young, highly active male. (Though he was very thin.) I don't know if they ever figured out why it happened, but just goes to show how random things can be. And he's doing much better with supplements and such.

 

[marzNC]

One reason I'm staying focused on exercises is that every time I delve into causes or nutrition related to bone density, it gets very complicated, very quickly. Genetics, diet, history of exercise, type of exercise, hormones . . . lots of interactions.

While women are much more likely to get diagnosed with osteopenia or osteoporosis, especially after menopause, it's definitely a problem for men as well. Young adults who pay attention and do simple things that encourage bone growth (more density, not overall size) before age 35 can help themselves a great deal in the long run.

 

[Gloria]

The diet part or what I have been reading on this thread is certainly interesting though. Especially the protein considering many popular diets today are protein heavy like the paleo, ketogenic, Mediterranean etc. Not to mention all the protein supplements that are used in strength and body building. It can kind of make your head spin trying to keep it all straight.

 

[artistinsuburbia]

This thread made me think of a friend who was suffering a lot of broken bones from mountain biking. At first, you think, well impacts do that, but it was weird bones, like his humerus, and from minor falls. I think he was like 35 at the time? Turned out to be osteoporosis. Which is definitely not the first thing you expect in a relatively young, highly active male. (Though he was very thin.) I don't know if they ever figured out why it happened, but just goes to show how random things can be. And he's doing much better with supplements and such.

I'd be curious that he didn't have celiac's or some other malnutrition type disease...wow 35!

 

[marzNC]

One of the more useful websites I found looking around was created by a professor (not in a medical field) who learned from personal experience that it's possible to reverse bone loss in a couple years. She started researching the topic and put together what she found out about causes and potential solutions. References to scholarly articles are included. Her writing style is easy to understand, unlike some medical websites. It's a good place to start to figure out what works for one individual.

https://www.osteopenia3.com

I've been collecting what I find most useful about exercises good for older skiers in a personal blog. Needless to say, there are now entries related to building bone mineral density mixed in with general ski conditioning ideas. Although the topic of bone mineral loss is important to younger women as well. The entry about lifting weights includes the idea that heavy weight is needed if the objective is to build new bone. I tend to include a short video clip in my blog entries because I'm a visual learner.

How to lift weights to stimulate osteoblasts to build new bone

Ways to improve bone density, not just for people with osteopenia/osteoporosis