Body image and skiing.

[Jilly]

I know that any european clothing companies seem to fit small. I'm your average. 12-14 and Salomon XL is tight. Yet in an Avalanche I'm a M.

And it seems that the buyers for stores assume that larger women don't want colour. Every left over jacket in the local store at the end of the season in the larger sizes is black. I keep telling the owner, colour, colour, colour.

 

[Abbi]

I know that any european clothing companies seem to fit small. I'm your average. 12-14 and Salomon XL is tight. Yet in an Avalanche I'm a M.

And it seems that the buyers for stores assume that larger women don't want colour. Every left over jacket in the local store at the end of the season in the larger sizes is black. I keep telling the owner, colour, colour, colour.

I’m with you but I want color, at least in jackets, so people see me and don’t run into me! Or if I’m stuck in a snowbank on the side of the trail I want to be pulled out!

 

[MissySki]

Yeah I agree this is tough one. Is there no demand for larger sizes because people above size 14 aren't even trying to find outdoor gear in their size because the marketing so clearly tells them that "skiing [or sport X] is for skinny people"? Or is there no demand for larger sizes because there truly are not people of that size participating in skiing or other outdoor pursuits? I don't have the answer but I do feel there is SOME disconnect. When I look around on the ski hill I would say the average size is around a US10, the ski shops skew smaller in their holdings, averaging around a size 6, and the athletes featured in the ads and magazine are around a 2 or 4.

I also wonder about perception of those around us and in these ads? I'm a size 4, fit into size small usually, and definitely feel the models are way smaller than me so like 0-2 and that many are my size-ish around me in classes and on the slope! Lol perception of self and others can be VERY subjective and I'm probably not the best judge by looking at someone. If you estimate that average is a 10, what does that equate to in letters? L or XL? I would think then that clothing would be more skewed there, so def a disconnect in the chain somewhere if that is the case. I'd love to find real statistics on size distribution of female skiers!

 

[MissySki]

I think you might be right, they might not be ordering as many of the larger sizes, but am glad they are ordering some. I didn't ask about all of the options/ colors , I was mostly interested in trying on some Flylow women's bibs. I tried on a men's Flylow bib, and asked about the women's. They did order the women's but were sold out in all sizes of those already.

As for what sizes sell out first, that seems to be an issue of Murphy's Law and/ or point of view. I feel like I see more S and XS on the sales racks. Maybe we should shop together, I can find the S for you, and you can find the L for me

Yes, that sounds like a good plan!!!

 

[marzNC]

LL Bean has short arms and legs, though! Or mine are both abnormally long - legs, well, I'll grant them that, I guess, but my arms are normal, darn it!

Of course, that means I like LL Bean a lot because I'm at the short end of the size spectrum. I stopped buying anything from Patagonia because they changed sleeve lengths several years ago
so that now nothing fits me when it comes to jackets or shirts.

As for what sizes sell out first, that seems to be an issue of Murphy's Law and/ or point of view. I feel like I see more S and XS on the sales racks.

For sure, XS is usually easy to find on the Clearance rack. DD wears XS, but I need at least S.

 

[GeoGirl]

Thanks for sharing the article! Definitely food for thought.
BTW, Have any of y'all seen Netflix's new series "Strong"? I started the first episode but got turned off real quick. They were saying "Strong is the new skinny!" but guess what? The "before and after" photos all showed the women going from no makeup/sports clothes/normal size to skinnier/evening dresses/beauty queen makeup. And the experts were ALL MALE WTF. Like can you not find any kick-ass female athletes for this show with all-female participants?!
Media shows women using fitness as a tool to be made over into something skinny and socially acceptable, but then seems to squash representation strong women on their own terms.

 

[DeweySki]

10 is a M or L depending on the company. I agree, it would be interesting to figure out where the actual size distribution of skiers is. There was a thread on this forum last year or the year before where everyone was rattling off their height and weight, I believe for determining length of skis. It was really heartening for me, because I realized I was way more average than I realized for a skier. Even being a middle of road size 8/10/M, I still felt "large" mostly because of what sizes of clothing I was seeing in ski shops.

 

[Ski Sine Fine]

I know that any european clothing companies seem to fit small. I'm your average. 12-14 and Salomon XL is tight. Yet in an Avalanche I'm a M.

And it seems that the buyers for stores assume that larger women don't want colour. Every left over jacket in the local store at the end of the season in the larger sizes is black. I keep telling the owner, colour, colour, colour.

Amen to that! What makes it worse is only certain colors look good on me. Although I love, and have lots of, jackets, they’re almost always black. I wish more jackets come in autumn colors.

 

[diymom]

10 is a M or L depending on the company

I accept that each brand sizes differently, frustrating as it is. But is it too much to ask that their own size chart accurately reflect the size of the product? I recently ordered some ski pants online, confident that I had the right size since my measurements fell perfectly in the middle of the range for both hips and waist on the manufacturer's size chart. They were way too big. I got my tape measure back out, and the pants were a full 4 inches wider at the waist than expected. Back they went.

 

[BlizzardBabe]

I have to retract what I said about Helly Hansen. I ordered a pair of bibs in XL "just to see," and they arrived yesterday. I could fit one and half of me in them. I may have to go down to a medium!

 

[elemmac]

I'd like to add a couple perspectives from someone that has been involved with buying for a ski shop. One factor for stocking more small sizes is because tall kids, tweens or teenagers are often times lumped into the XS and S sizes. For similar reasons more color is considered in those sizes. There's also the thought process that black never goes out of style, so if it doesn't sell this year, it is more likely to sell on the discount rack. Whereas color trends change from year to year. A couple years ago it was hard to find a color that didn't look like a Skittle. More recently, muted colors are becoming a trend.

Plus most people on this site are kind of an anomaly to the "average customer", 90% of skiers own only one ski jacket, whereas 90% of skiers on this site own 2+ (and 85% of all statistics are made up...but you get the point).

I would be interested in seeing how many people walk out of a shop due to the shop not having their size though. I'm wondering if they're not stocking sizing correctly because of what people are leaving the store with, and less of what people go into the shop to find.

 

[DeweySki]

I'd like to add a couple perspectives from someone that has been involved with buying for a ski shop. One factor for stocking more small sizes is because tall kids, tweens or teenagers are often times lumped into the XS and S sizes. For similar reasons more color is considered in those sizes. There's also the thought process that black never goes out of style, so if it doesn't sell this year, it is more likely to sell on the discount rack. Whereas color trends change from year to year. A couple years ago it was hard to find a color that didn't look like a Skittle. More recently, muted colors are becoming a trend.

Plus most people on this site are kind of an anomaly to the "average customer", 90% of skiers own only one ski jacket, whereas 90% of skiers on this site own 2+ (and 85% of all statistics are made up...but you get the point).

I would be interested in seeing how many people walk out of a shop due to the shop not having their size though. I'm wondering if they're not stocking sizing correctly because of what people are leaving the store with, and less of what people go into the shop to find.

Very interesting! I had honestly never thought about it this way, probably because I don't know any teenage girls, but it makes total sense.

I agree about this forum. I was going to say something similar about "people on this forum probably don't represent the average," but was having trouble articulating my thoughts. Something along the lines of, "though we may represent average sizes, our shopping habits are probably not average, we probably buy more technical gear and research prices and buy online more than the average day skiier, etc. etc."

 

[Ski Sine Fine]

You mean, the average skier doesn’t do a happy dance when weather gets cold?

 

[Christy]

I get a bit hung up on seeing so many things lately in articles and social media that state that the average woman is size X or we need sizing for "real women" in snowsports or ads with "real women" in fitness.

It drives me nuts whenever I see someone use the term "real women" like that. "Average Woman", sure. But equating average with real? Why is it okay to diss smaller women, to insinuate they aren't "real women"? Isn't the point to not judge anyone's size? One of the first Facebook comments where this article was posted was about real women and how "everyone knows skinny women can't survive in the mountains." WTF does that even mean? I had to remind myself there is no point in arguing with a stranger on FB.

As for what sizes sell out first, that seems to be an issue of Murphy's Law and/ or point of view. I feel like I see more S and XS on the sales racks.

You must be right because I swear there are never any XSs left on the sale racks. It's all larger sizes!

 

[Christy]

It's way too hard to find female skiers to follow on Instagram who don't also post, as the article mentioned, "gratuitous provocative bikini pics" or even selfies looking like they just stepped out of a salon. It sometimes makes me wonder if I'm the only short-haired, sweaty beast on the mountain.

Mikaela Shriffin has been a notable exception, though this year I'm noticing that there are more social media shots of her looking dolled up/glamorous. Tasteful, still, but I wonder how much she will be able to resist the pressure of sponsors who want her to get all the Instagram likes possible. And showing skin gets the likes. Maybe she can resist because she makes a decent amount of prize money. Most skiers don't. They need the income they get from sponsorships.

I really enjoyed the New Yorker article on a couple (Emily King and Corey Smith) making a living by posting on Instagram as #vanlife. They had sponsors, of course, and pressure to produce content and garner likes. It's kind of all you need to know about social media.

King clicked on the account’s most successful post, which has more than eight thousand likes. In the image, the back seat of the van is folded down into a bed; King faces away from the camera, holding a sheet to her chest, her hair cascading down her naked back. The second most popular post was of King wearing a bikini, standing on the van’s front bumper. In the next most popular, King is in a bikini, slicing lemons.

“People really want to see beautiful locations,” King said.

“They want to see Emily in a bikini, they want to see a sun flare, they want to see the van,” Smith said. “Ones of Emily in the van waking up with Penny, they crush it.”

“It’s real and it’s kind of moody—”

“It’s a naked female,” Smith said. “If I’m in that picture, it gets three thousand likes.”

 

[Little Lightning]

It drives me nuts whenever I see someone use the term "real women" like that. "Average Woman", sure. But equating average with real? Why is it okay to diss smaller women, to insinuate they aren't "real women"? Isn't the point to not judge anyone's size? One of the first Facebook comments where this article was posted was about real women and how "everyone knows skinny women can't survive in the mountains." WTF does that even mean? I had to remind myself there is no point in arguing with a stranger on Facebook.

Thank you!

 

[Little Lightning]

I would be interested in seeing how many people walk out of a shop due to the shop not having their size though. I'm wondering if they're not stocking sizing correctly because of what people are leaving the store with, and less of what people go into the shop to find.

Last year in store #1 I tried 4 pr of XS ski pants in women's all too large. Someone told me snowboarder pants fit smaller, so I tried a couple pr in XS, too big and baggy. I tried girls sizes. One size close but needed a little more room. Size up too big. Same experience in store #2. Went to REI no better experience. Finally ordered a pair of XS Armada shell pants from EVO. Fit almost perfect. In Sept. I went to a Labor Day sale. Not many small sizes. Had pretty much given up. Then on a separate rack I found a pair of Descente Pants in a size 4. Perfect fit. And they were the color I had been looking for.

It's so tiring of being told, "You're so lucky all the small sizes are always on sale", as if to say because I'm small every small size will fit. I'm no different than anyone else. Some brands fit well, some don't. Finding clothes that fit is always a guessing game no matter what your size.

 

[newboots]

I read today (I think it was SKi magazine) that Mikaela was chosen for Maxim’s “hot 100” or something. She planned to turn it down, but finally posed wearing a ski jacket with her Olympic medals. Which Maxim accepted.

Proud of her. There must be a lot of pressure.

 

[mustski]

I wonder if social media and the constant photo trend of instagram is amplifying the problem of negative body image or just exemplifying it. I have noticed that young women rarely post a picture without using filters to eliminate "flaws" such as pores! On the other hand, I won't buy even the most comfortable piece of athletic wear unless I feel that it is flattering on me. There is no point. If I don't like the way it looks on, then I won't ever wear it. I'm not sure if that's negative body image or just an ego issue.

As for sizing for "real" women .... what the heck is that exactly? We come in such a variety of sizes and shapes that it must be quite impossible to design a line of clothing for everyone. I have short people problems because manufacture believe I am WAY below average in height - I'm 5'2" but I'm a size 8. Apparently, I'm supposed to be about 5'7"! I get too frustrated even trying on ski pants in stores. I order online, and I pretty much stick to Columbia at this point. Their short pants fit me well. As for jackets ... I have accepted that sleeves are always too long on me. It's not that big a deal - ski gloves hold them up!

 

[Skier31]

I think there is a middle ground between dressing to look your best and “filtering” your appearance. Wearing clothes that fit appropriately with accessories and some makeup can make a huge difference in how we look and how we are perceived.