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Body image and skiing.

ski diva

Administrator
Staff member
An excellent piece here on the impact of body image and social media on skiing.

I agree with so much of what she says. Basically, the article explores questions like “When female athletes are told that the sexualization of their bodies is more important than their athletic prowess, then what hope do the rest of us have with our average size 14 bodies?”

Do yourself a favor ahead and read it for yourself. I'd love to hear your impressions.
 

SallyCat

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I can't believe how stunned I was by the radio host O'Connor's disgusting comment about Chloe Kim. After all this time and all of the evidence of misogyny in sports, it still shocked me. What a breathtakingly grotesque thing to say.

Slight rant: The author weirdly referred to Kim as having "sub human" talent when she clearly meant "super human" which threw me a bit (and which is why kids should take Latin in school! Rant over!)

I thought the article was fierce and well done. And necessary. We need more of this.

I hate that I hardly have any pictures of me skiing or mountain biking because I can't stand to look at myself when all I see is a too-large midsection attached to an awkward old lady.

I tapped into the fight a few months ago on another forum where guys were posting pinup photos of professional female mountain bikers; I said a bunch of stuff and then tapped out. It was interesting, though: As the thread progressed, the guys (prior to my comments) had started to post actual action shots of the women racing and talking about their race stats and skills and praising their athletic ability. It was as though the guys sort of knew or sensed that something was wrong with the way they were discussing and portraying women and they were trying to mitigate or drown out the evidence of their grossness with positive, appropriate comments. That didn't stop a few charmers from lashing out in completely predictable ways, though. I really think we forget how early a stage we're in as far as women's equality.
 

newboots

Angel Diva
I hate that I hardly have any pictures of me skiing or mountain biking because I can't stand to look at myself when all I see is a too-large midsection attached to an awkward old lady.

#metoo

I really think we forget how early a stage we're in as far as women's equality.

You must have stopped watching the news!

(little angry face emoji)
 

Abbi

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
You must have stopped watching the news! (little angry face emoji)

I don’t know about you, but my first credit card had to go through my (ex 39 years now!!) husband! I didn’t get anything beyond a $500 limit department store card in my own name until after I graduated from college in my mid 20s! And then I took advantage of all the recent graduate offers!

Sorry for the distraction on the purpose of this post, ski diva!
 

ski diva

Administrator
Staff member
I don’t know about you, but my first credit card had to go through my (ex 39 years now!!) husband! I didn’t get anything beyond a $500 limit department store card in my own name until after I graduated from college in my mid 20s! And then I took advantage of all the recent graduate offers!

Sorry for the distraction on the purpose of this post, ski diva!

Terrible, yes. But let's stick to body image here.

The double standard in sports -- especially skiing -- has long been a hot issue for me. A woman can be the most amazing skier out there, but far too often she's judged more on the way she looks than the way she skis. This isn't the same with men. They could look like a horse (no insult meant for horses), and they get accolades. I've talked about this a number of times here in this forum and on my blog (here's one of several posts), because things just don't seem to change. Far too often, women skiers/ athletes are turned into sexual objects. Yes, I get it. Some of them look great. They've worked hard on their bodies and if they want to show them off, well, the window of opportunity to make some money is short and it's their decision. But why should this even be an issue? Why can't we just value these women for their incredible athletic abilities? And why can't those who don't look like that be celebrated as the athletes they are, without any observations/opinions about how they look?
 
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LKillick

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Wow, this is fantastic. Especially loved the Lynsey Dyer bit.

I'm a Girls on the Run coach this season -- this fits right in with the changes we're hoping to make for young girls moving forward.

We live in a society where women's sports are not valued to the degree that men's sports are -- and when they are, there's so much commentary on the physical. For example, many of our WNBA star athletes have to play abroad in the offseason just to be able to feed their families, where NBA players are making huge money. And when there's news about women athletes... forget reading the comments section. Infuriating.
 

Abbi

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Terrible, yes. But let's stick to body image here.

The double standard in sports -- especially skiing -- has long been a hot issue for me. A woman can be the most amazing skier out there, but far too often she's judged more on the way she looks than the way she skis. This isn't the same with men. They could look like a horse (no insult meant for horses), and they get accolades. I've talked about this a number of times here in this forum and on my blog (here's one of several posts), because things just don't seem to change. Far too often, women skiers/ athletes are turned into sexual objects. Yes, I get it. Some of them look great. They've worked hard on their bodies and if they want to show them off, well, the window of opportunity to make some money is short and it's their decision. But why should this even be an issue? Why can't we just value these women for their incredible athletic abilities? And why can't those who don't look like that be embraced in the same way?

That was supposed to of shown a quote back to new boots! Sorry
 

Skier31

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
The bottom line seems to be money. Men’s sports generate more money (from tv, ads, tickets etc). Sexy sells and not just in sports. Look at news people. It is ok to be a not so attractive, older, bald guy. Double standards are rampant.

I do not know the answer. What I do know is that we can be honest with ourselves about what is healthy and not cave to the anorexic, photoshopped model image.

What we can all do is be the best version of ourselves and that is different for everyone.

What we can do is to be proud, strong and confident about who we are.
 

LKillick

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Agreed — totally about money in many ways... but why the willingness to spend that money to watch male athletes but not female ones? Does it come back to beauty there, too? So figure skating is popular but women’s basketball less so?

Of note, apparently female basketball players are very well respected in Europe. Wonder if the same is true for other female athletes, even if not thin/traditionally beautiful. I lived in the UK for awhile but was in a bit of a cultural bubble...

Agree re: proud, strong, confident... and I’ll add try to help the next generation with that. Research suggests girls self esteem peaks at 9. Trying to help them keep that prepubescent sense of self is important, I think.
 

marzNC

Angel Diva
Agree re: proud, strong, confident... and I’ll add try to help the next generation with that. Research suggests girls self esteem peaks at 9. Trying to help them keep that prepubescent sense of self is important, I think.
Very important to provide role models and direct support for tween girls who enjoy outdoor sports. Check out SheJumps to see if they are active in your region. Not only working to encourage girls to have fun being active outdoors in all seasons, also just as encouraging for adult women who haven't considered skiing or mountain biking or surfing as a possibility for themselves even if they think it's good for girls.
 

mountainwest

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I'm really glad that this article was published by SnowsBest. Social media is sooo full of this: "When female athletes are told (or instigate themselves on social media) the message that the sexualization of their bodies is more important than their athletic prowess." It's way too hard to find female skiers to follow on Instagram who don't also post, as the article mentioned, "gratuitous provocative bikini pics" or even selfies looking like they just stepped out of a salon. It sometimes makes me wonder if I'm the only short-haired, sweaty beast on the mountain.
 

MissySki

Angel Diva
Maybe a different take, but I get a bit hung up on seeing so many things lately in articles and social media that state that the average woman is size X or we need sizing for "real women" in snowsports or ads with "real women" in fitness.

This supposed average or "real woman" sizing doesn't fit me in the least nor does it fit many people I know, and we are most certainly real women. Is the average being thrown around of a size 14 for women overall in the US, or those who are actually recreationally active in sports like skiing?? That makes a huge difference to understanding how far off the branding and marketing of these companies actually are and I wonder how misleading it is. If they are intentionally targeting their largest audience correctly, I'm not sure you can ping them for being so out of touch with reality, perhaps that's their reality and that's who they want to focus on to get the most bang for their marketing bucks.

I also don't feel like ads for outdoor clothing like LL Bean/REI/Patagonia/North Face/Athleta etc. are using anorexic models in their ads, when I look at them I see fit athletic women who are attractive, but not unrealistically so in either regard and seem to be becoming much more inclusive in body types being represented.
 

BlizzardBabe

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Maybe a different take, but I get a bit hung up on seeing so many things lately in articles and social media that state that the average woman is size X or we need sizing for "real women" in snowsports or ads with "real women" in fitness.

This supposed average or "real woman" sizing doesn't fit me in the least nor does it fit many people I know, and we are most certainly real women.

Sizing is a quandary for me. I don't like tight-fitting ski wear and I have one helluva time finding XL in local ski/outdoor stores. My favorite shop, for instance, doesn't even stock XL because "there is no demand." What? I know fer shure that I'm not the only XL woman skiing out there.

And what's the deal with Helly Hanson? Their XL fits like a size 10. Do they not want "larger" women wearing their stuff? Do they think it will detract from the brand somehow? I'm not sure I want to know the answer to that.
 

diymom

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
My local ski shop did have some L and XL sizes when I went in a few weeks ago. But most of the styles/ colors I liked best they only had left in smaller sizes. Apparently if I want to be able to try them on in store, I need to go right when they get them in for the season before they sell out....in early August.
 

MissySki

Angel Diva
Sizing is a quandary for me. I don't like tight-fitting ski wear and I have one helluva time finding XL in local ski/outdoor stores. My favorite shop, for instance, doesn't even stock XL because "there is no demand." What? I know fer shure that I'm not the only XL woman skiing out there.

And what's the deal with Helly Hanson? Their XL fits like a size 10. Do they not want "larger" women wearing their stuff? Do they think it will detract from the brand somehow? I'm not sure I want to know the answer to that.

Could be different fits in different brands, which is admittedly annoying as all get out in general, don't even get me started on jean sizing from brand to brand!!! Related to pants in general and ski pants in particular my issues come from a skinny waist while having more curvy thighs and butt, oh and then I have longer legs than some brands apparently deem necessary for my height.. lol Some brands are fine like Northface has various length options and has an adjustable waist, I can fit into a small and be pretty good on most of their pants. However, I cannot fit into Patagonia pants AT ALL. The thighs are SO tight unless I go way up in sizing and then they fall down on me, literally. So definite different shapes being catered to there.

Carrying sizes in general goes back to my question on demand I guess. There has to be a serious lack of demand in a particular location if the store doesn't want to carry the inventory or assume the risk that they won't sell it. Presumably if more people were requesting it, they would probably carry it to meet the demand. Although I guess you don't know how many people actually ask about it, they might just assume their size isn't there and then the shop owner wouldn't know there was more demand. When I shop for end of season sales though, I often find larger sizes remaining, I know this because it irks me that I often can't get the end of season deals on really cute things that are there, but not in my size.

LL Bean in particular has a huge variety of sizing in outdoor wear. Some snowpants go up to XL and others go up to 3X and same with jackets.
 

MissySki

Angel Diva
My local ski shop did have some L and XL sizes when I went in a few weeks ago. But most of the styles/ colors I liked best they only had left in smaller sizes. Apparently if I want to be able to try them on in store, I need to go right when they get them in for the season before they sell out....in early August.

That's interesting as it's the opposite of what I've seen at Sunday River in particular! I notice the smaller sizes going quicker and am always worried about not getting something when I first see it if I think I might want it later because it could definitely be gone. Did you specifically ask if they had all of the options/colors in the larger sizes to begin with? If they are going that fast it seems strange not to have more of those sizes for further into the season (or when it even begins at all!!)
 

Jenny

Angel Diva
LL Bean in particular has a huge variety of sizing in outdoor wear. Some snowpants go up to XL and others go up to 3X and same with jackets.
LL Bean has short arms and legs, though! Or mine are both abnormally long - legs, well, I'll grant them that, I guess, but my arms are normal, darn it!
 

MissySki

Angel Diva
LL Bean has short arms and legs, though! Or mine are both abnormally long - legs, well, I'll grant them that, I guess, but my arms are normal, darn it!

That's funny, I actually find them to have longer arms compared to some others for jackets. I have wide shoulders and monkey arms and their sleeves work well on me, I was just there trying on some puffy jackets the other day and definitely thought "Ahhh these sleeves are so nice and long!" lol I was pleasantly surprised as this is a place where some brands don't work for me as well. I wonder if they changed anything there, I do know in the past that some of their sweatshirt sleeves were too short on me. I don't have as much experience with their pants, but I do have a soft shell pair I wear that are fine lengthwise. You are much taller than me though, I just have a bit longer legs for my height and a shorter torso.
 

DeweySki

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Maybe a different take, but I get a bit hung up on seeing so many things lately in articles and social media that state that the average woman is size X or we need sizing for "real women" in snowsports or ads with "real women" in fitness.

This supposed average or "real woman" sizing doesn't fit me in the least nor does it fit many people I know, and we are most certainly real women. Is the average being thrown around of a size 14 for women overall in the US, or those who are actually recreationally active in sports like skiing?? That makes a huge difference to understanding how far off the branding and marketing of these companies actually are and I wonder how misleading it is. If they are intentionally targeting their largest audience correctly, I'm not sure you can ping them for being so out of touch with reality, perhaps that's their reality and that's who they want to focus on to get the most bang for their marketing bucks.

I also don't feel like ads for outdoor clothing like LL Bean/REI/Patagonia/North Face/Athleta etc. are using anorexic models in their ads, when I look at them I see fit athletic women who are attractive, but not unrealistically so in either regard and seem to be becoming much more inclusive in body types being represented.
Sizing is a quandary for me. I don't like tight-fitting ski wear and I have one helluva time finding XL in local ski/outdoor stores. My favorite shop, for instance, doesn't even stock XL because "there is no demand." What? I know fer shure that I'm not the only XL woman skiing out there.

And what's the deal with Helly Hanson? Their XL fits like a size 10. Do they not want "larger" women wearing their stuff? Do they think it will detract from the brand somehow? I'm not sure I want to know the answer to that.
Yeah I agree this is tough one. Is there no demand for larger sizes because people above size 14 aren't even trying to find outdoor gear in their size because the marketing so clearly tells them that "skiing [or sport X] is for skinny people"? Or is there no demand for larger sizes because there truly are not people of that size participating in skiing or other outdoor pursuits? I don't have the answer but I do feel there is SOME disconnect. When I look around on the ski hill I would say the average size is around a US10, the ski shops skew smaller in their holdings, averaging around a size 6, and the athletes featured in the ads and magazine are around a 2 or 4.
 

diymom

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Did you specifically ask if they had all of the options/colors in the larger sizes to begin with?
I think you might be right, they might not be ordering as many of the larger sizes, but am glad they are ordering some. I didn't ask about all of the options/ colors , I was mostly interested in trying on some Flylow women's bibs. I tried on a men's Flylow bib, and asked about the women's. They did order the women's but were sold out in all sizes of those already.

As for what sizes sell out first, that seems to be an issue of Murphy's Law and/ or point of view. I feel like I see more S and XS on the sales racks. Maybe we should shop together, I can find the S for you, and you can find the L for me :smile:
 

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