Bindings???

[marzNC]

Extremely confused now. Salomon Z10 and Atomic FGG 10 are supposed to be the same binding sold under different brands. And yet FFG 10's weight is different from z10's. (FFG 10 is 1.72 kg per pair, lighter than Salomons.) ?????

Same size brakes?

 

[marzNC]

Found a good video of how a professional with all the right tools installs bindings. Created in 2012 by a ski shop in VT. Had heard of using a "jig" but wasn't quite sure how complex a jig would be. Apparently there are adjustable ones, as well as ones that are made for a specific binding.

In this case, a system binding was mounted but the only difference is that the screws that go into the ski attach the plate and not the toe and heel pieces. Also includes the binding test using a fancy electronic machine. When I had the torque test done at a small shop near Loon, the tech had a device that he hit with his hand until the boot broke free. There is good info in the comments that go with the video.

 

[MaineSkiLady]

I've watched this at my local shop. With regard to adjustable versus binding manufacturer-specific, many shops prefer the latter. Shop employees have to attend training workshops for these, via the binding manufacturer. It does address why some shops carry only certain lines and promote those: because of their binding mount jig set-up and who is trained to do which.

 

[Jilly]

And those jigs aren't cheap. They are not given away with the binding purchase to the shop they have to buy them.

 

[hamster on skis]

Same size brakes?

Yes, seems like Salomon Z10 and Atomic FFG 10 have different weight -- regardless of brakes? My information comes from this:
https://www.salomoncertification.com/manuals/Shop_Practices_Manual_2014_15.pdf

Interestingly, you can find these manuals for different years, and 1) in 2014-2015, Atomic FFG are marketed as freeski bindings, in 2015-2016 as "sport" bindings, whatever this means. Also, the weight of FFG 10 is exactly the same as Salomon Z10 in 2013-2014, but from 2014-2015 FFG 10 is 860g and Z10 is 970g per binding.
Must be different kind of plastic like @MaineSkiLady says? Not that it would make much difference in practice, totally agree.

What I find appalling is that on manufacturers websites, you can only find the DIN range along with some talk of how a particular binding is fantastic for most skiers in most conditions. Shops selling the stuff give you more specs...

I suppose a lot of bindings are really almost the same but it's profitable for the manufacturers to market them under different guises to different groups of buyers???

 

[surfsnowgirl]

Din settings are just something I'm starting to think about now. When you guys demo ski do you tell them what din you want or just tell them your stats, whether you are a type I, II or III skier and let them set the number?

 

[Jilly]

I tell them the number. But I have to sign off that I told them to set them there. There are some people that don't know their DIN or BSL...

 

[marzNC]

Din settings are just something I'm starting to think about now. When you guys demo ski do you tell them what din you want or just tell them your stats, whether you are a type I, II or III skier and let them set the number?

For the set up at a free demo day, I give them real ht/wt and age on the registration form. Then either Type II or Type III depending on conditions and what type of terrain I'm planning to ski that day. If groomers or easy stuff, then Type II. If ungroomed, then sometimes Type III. Never had a problem with pre-release in that type of situation.

For renting demo skis, also tend to say Type II. But there are snow conditions where it needs to be Type III, such as deep powder.

I know my BSL and DIN by heart. At the demo tent set up by a ski shop at Massanutten, they just ask what DIN people want. Most people know. If not, they look at the person's skis and use that setting.

 

[santacruz skier]

I tell them the number. But I have to sign off that I told them to set them there. There are some people that don't know their DIN or BSL...

Ditto with me. I am so lightweight and over 50 and sign a waiver to set DIN where I want it. Otherwise, I just pop out of the skis way too easily... And would really get hurt.

 

[marzNC]

The detail that I learned last about dealing with bindings was how to set "forward pressure." I knew it had to be set correctly before you set the DIN, but how that happened was not obvious. If you watch a tech set up a binding for a boot and the BSL is slightly different from the previous setting, they usually stick the boot in, pop the boot out, use a screwdriver on something, then stick the boot back in, look at something, and repeat as needed. Turns out that there is no consistent way to see if the forward pressure is set correctly. Each brand can be different and perhaps even different models for the same brand, especially if different model years.

For a basic intro, here's one example.

Here's a more detailed example for Salomon bindings. Notice that at the bottom there are links for Marker and Rossi. What you do with a screwdriver is quite different in these examples.

https://theskimonster.com/blog/posts/how-to-adjust-your-salomon-ski-bindings/

 

[marzNC]

This video doesn't really belong in this thread, but for those who started skiing long after auto-release bindings it's an eye-opening glimpse into what type of bindings were being used in the 1940s. Also shows where the idea of AT bindings comes from. I assume one use for this 1941 military training film was to train men who became the 10th Mountain Division. The idea of training men for combat on snow was approved in Sept 1940 but nothing really happened in terms of training until after Oct 1941.

 

[artistinsuburbia]

This video doesn't really belong in this thread, but for those who started skiing long after auto-release bindings it's an eye-opening glimpse into what type of bindings were being used in the 1940s. Also shows where the idea of AT bindings comes from. I assume one use for this 1941 military training film was to train men who became the 10th Mountain Division. The idea of training men for combat on snow was approved in Sept 1940 but nothing really happened in terms of training until after Oct 1941.

Just hung a pair of those skis on my wall in my bedroom at the ski cottage. We were wondering how those bindings worked!!!! My son now wants to have "retro day" Lol. God help me if he finds edges and the springs....

 

[va_deb]

This is a really good binding at a great price:
https://www.evo.com/outlet/alpine-ski-bindings/atomic-ffg-10-2015.aspx#image=89157/391915/clone.jpg
I have had several pairs - they perform flawlessly and are lightweight. They are essentially Salomon Z10 with Atomic name/graphics.
$105. 90 and 100 brake choices.

Pretty sure they're what I got for my pretty Edens, and they were really light.

 

[marzNC]

A fun time-lapse video of a couple of ski shop techs mounting a bunch of bindings over about 2 hours.

 

[AltaEgo]

Another thing to take into account is ramp angle. The ramp angle is the difference between your boot being absolutely level in the binding, or having it a little higher on the heel or lower on the toe. I have Knee Bindings and Marker bindings. The Knee Binding's women's version had a built-in ramp angle, so I had them mounted with a slight riser in the front to neutralize the ramp angle. You may actually want a bit forward ramp angle if you have trouble getting up front or depending on the forward lean of your boots. One last consideration is weight... generally "demo" bindings are heavier than regular ones. It may not seem like much difference, but by the end of the day every little bit less helps!

 

[marzNC]

Yet one more thing to learn about bindings . . . where they are mounted can make a difference. Meaning where in relation to the "balance point" of a ski. For an example of how it can make a difference, here's a thread what @Skisailor experienced with new K2 skis.

https://www.theskidiva.com/forums/index.php?threads/a-tale-of-2-centimeters.20163/

 

[teppaz]

I recently bought a pair of 2014 Kenjas from SkiEssentials — it was a fantastic deal and included Tyrolia Attack 13s, which I'd used a couple of times on demos and liked. Looking more closely at the still-unmounted bindings (after reading this thread!), I realized the brakes are 95mm. Is that within reason or too wide for the pre-redesign Kenjas, which have an 87mm waist? Looking at the Tyrolia site, the Attack brakes appear to jump from 85 to 95mm, with no in-between.

(I have Atomic FFG 12s on my other pair of skis and love them!)

 

[surfsnowgirl]

I have the 97mm attack 13s on my 2015 87 underfoot Kenjas and they are awesome bindings. I haven't had a single issue with them. Stepping into them is a dream.

I also have the FFG 12s on my Elysians and they are good also. They aren't as smooth as the attacks when stepping into them but still good bindings

 

[AltaEgo]

I agree with MarzNC about where bindings are mounted makes a difference. I bought Marker Schizo bindings and found that by moving them up 1 cm it made a huge difference. I remember way back when (when women's specific meant "pretty") and talking with Jeannie Thoren who at that time was recommending that most skis for women be mounted 1 to 2 cm forward of the normal mounting point to account for "the girls" and how they affect our balance. You would think by now that most ski manufacturers mounting points for women would take that into consideration, but then, rockered skis could change everything again. (See what happens when you get an Eastern techno geek going when there is nothing to ski!)

 

[marzNC]

Can't remember if system bindings were discussed in this thread or not. In any case, some useful comments in this thread started in 2012:

https://www.theskidiva.com/forums/index.php?threads/whats-so-bad-about-system-bindings.14514/

My Head Absolut Joy skis came with system bindings but very different from the K2 OneLuv I bought in 2009. The binding is pretty light. Came separately in the box with the skis so I had to get them mounted.