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What's so "bad" about system bindings?

deannatoby

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
#1
I've read a couple of different threads where they talk about a ski redesigned for next year that also is going to get rid of its system bindings, and that's supposed to be a good thing. What's wrong with system bindings, or at least what's not so good about a system binding? Does it affect how the ski feels that much?
 

altagirl

Moderator
Staff member
#2
my personal thoughts..
lack of choice (lots of people are picky or loyal to one binding)
can't mount skis with tele or AT bindings
can't adjust to unusually small or large boot sizes
unnecessarily heavy
 

snow addict

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
#3
I only ever saw carvers or "all-moutain carvers" sold with integrated system bindings. I don't think it's a bad thing, at least you don't need to worry about chosing them yourself.
 

marzNC

Angel Diva
#4
I only ever saw carvers or "all-moutain carvers" sold with integrated system bindings. I don't think it's a bad thing, at least you don't need to worry about chosing them yourself.
When I started thinking about buying good skis, being able to get integrated bindings was a plus. Mainly because locally there isn't much to choose from in the way of ski shops. Choosing a ski with limited demo opportunities was hard enough, didn't want to deal with bindings too. The only negative for me is that integrated bindings are generally heavier. While I'm starting to enjoy side-country, tele and AT bindings are not in my future.

Interesting . . . for the Rossi Temptation line, the skinnier 74, 76, 78 are set up with the integrated binding, while the 88 is only sold flat. For the 82, there is a choice a getting them flat or with the binding.
 
#5
I have a couple of pairs of skis with integrated bindings and my most recent pair came flat. I love them all and don't notice any real pros or cons with any of them when I am on the ski. I might not have enough experience to notice subtle things like that I'm not sure..
 
#6
This may well be a trend on its way out, based on sales - and possibly destined for lower-end skis where the buyer wouldn’t want to have to make a binding choice. The integration feature adds weight. There’s (obviously) no binding choice. And then there’s the BSL limitation...

Some skis have offered a variation of this, such as the ones I usually use: Dynastar Idyll. There is a “Fluid” model. It comes with bindings and a mounting plate. It also is available flat. (Same with some K2, re: availability) I chose flat, so I could pick binding I wanted, with some versatility, plus I did not want the weight of the plate.

Perhaps sales reflect that such offerings tip toward flat being the more popular?

The one trend I was happy to see vanish was rail-mounting. Ugh. (Notably offered several years back by Fischer, that I recall.)
 

tinymoose

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
#7
My first two pairs of skis had system bindings. At the time I think they worked well enough, since I wouldn't have wanted to also deal with trying to pick out bindings as a novice. That said, the downside of them for me was the weight.

My new skis came flat, and I chose the easy route and just picked Look bindings that were recommended for my ski, since I still no squat about bindings.
 

marzNC

Angel Diva
#8
So, is selling skis with an integrated binding a bit easier since they will fit more boot lengths? I know skis can have bindings mounted more than once. Do people generally keep the bindings and sell the skis flat?
 
#9
My new skis came flat, and I chose the easy route and just picked Look bindings that were recommended for my ski, since I still no squat about bindings.
Idylls, right? If you got the Look NX, you got a winner. I have had at least 6 or 7 sets of these, never a glitch.
So, is selling skis with an integrated binding a bit easier since they will fit more boot lengths? I know skis can have bindings mounted more than once. Do people generally keep the bindings and sell the skis flat?
Actually, there seem to be some issues with the spread of BSL that a system binding can accommodate, as witnessed by a member's recent issue with Fuegos (won't go short enough). No, system bindings stay with the ski.
 
#10
Actually, there seem to be some issues with the spread of BSL that a system binding can accommodate, as witnessed by a member's recent issue with Fuegos (won't go short enough). No, system bindings stay with the ski.
Wasn't my question . . . when selling skis that were bought flat, do people usually keep the binding and just sell the skis?
 

Jilly

Moderator
Staff member
#11
System bindings are a lot easier for the shop too. No need to buy/get templates to drill. Most craving skis need a lifter so you don't "boot out". The system binding has that incorporated into the plate. You don't necessarily need a lifter on a wide skis that would be 82 or 88 temptation for example.

There may also be some physics involved with flex patterns. Not an engineer for don't know about that.

And I agree with MSL about the rail type - Salomon had them too, pilot system they called it.

If I bought new skis, I would buy new bindings, not transfer. You have better luck selling the set then just the skis only.
 
#12
Wasn't my question . . . when selling skis that were bought flat, do people usually keep the binding and just sell the skis?
Oops, sorry. I think it depends - have seen it done both ways. I personally sell the whole package, mounted bindings, sayonara.
 
#13
There may also be some physics involved with flex patterns. Not an engineer for don't know about that.
Newer bindings have taken this heavily into consideration in recent years (comparatively). There was a time when it did make a difference. Now the actual mounting points have been changed such that the ski flex isn't altered as drastically as it would have in the past. (This from DH/engineer, who was "into" this stuff at one point.)
 

altagirl

Moderator
Staff member
#14
If I bought new skis, I would buy new bindings, not transfer. You have better luck selling the set then just the skis only.
This totally depends, in my experience, on who you are selling to. If I can sell the whole setup, I usually will, but there are plenty of people around here locally that want to put their own bindings on them, whether it's AT/tele bindings, guys who will only use race bindings with a ridiculously high DIN, etc. So plenty of times, I have kept my old bindings, sold them just the flat ski, re-mounted my old bindings on new skis. Of course, my "old" bindings tend to not be very old. I wouldn't do that if you keep your skis for a lot of years.
 

tinymoose

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
#15
Idylls, right? If you got the Look NX, you got a winner. I have had at least 6 or 7 sets of these, never a glitch.
Yup! Idylls and Look NX 11 I think. So far they seem to do what bindings are supposed to do. :smile: I love how light they are.
 
#16
When I was struggling with trying to get balanced in my boots/on my skis, the fact that I had system bindings with a defined ramp angle that couldn't be changed was a real thorn in my side. I talked to my bootfitter and ski shop about this and they both just shook their heads and said, tell ski manufacturers to stop only making skis with system bindings (a few years ago I had virtually no choices for flat frontside skis--everything was system. This seems to be changing). I was chatting with Contesstant in another thread and she can't ski her Lotta Luvs without excruciating quad pain due to the system binding ramp angle.
 

litterbug

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
#17
Couldn't they do something to raise your forefoot to compensate? Someone was talking about "gas pedals" under the you of the

Ack-it's too easy to hit reply!

anyway, gas pedals would goo under the toe of your liner or something to compensate for ramp angle. Maybe mention it to find out why it wouldn't work.
 

altagirl

Moderator
Staff member
#18
Couldn't they do something to raise your forefoot to compensate? Someone was talking about "gas pedals" under the you of the

Ack-it's too easy to hit reply!

anyway, gas pedals would goo under the toe of your liner or something to compensate for ramp angle. Maybe mention it to find out why it wouldn't work.
Only if you have that much space inside the boot, I'd think.
 

tinymoose

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
#19
Only if you have that much space inside the boot, I'd think.
I don't have system bindings anymore, but my bootfitter thought I could benefit from toe lifts, if that's what is meant by "gas pedals?" But I had this issue, that when the toe lifts were in, my toes were squashed to the point they'd go numb after skiing for a bit, so we had to scrap them altogether. Luckily they weren't all that necessary in the end.
 

deannatoby

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
#20
Well, how informative. On the plus side, sounds like a non-system binding DOES help with ski performance. On the negative side, one more new thing to understand about skiing. My skis are heavy, and I'll bet the system binding contributes to that. I don't like the heaviness.

I wonder if the price points of the skis will be significantly cheaper when they go from system to non-system. Bindings ain't cheap!

Next question: How many of you use a plate under the binding? I know the kids' race skis, which use Marker bindings, have a plate to slightly elevate the whole foot. Is that just a race thing or good for all skis? One good thing with kids about that plate is you can easily change the binding length without having to redrill the ski. Awesome advantage when you've got either growing kids or need hand-me-downs!
 

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