Alterra moves ahead (Mammoth, Squaw, Deer Valley, former Intrawest)

[Albertan ski girl]

I'm really curious as to what will happen with MCP - and what will be left of it. I'm curious if AltaBird and JHMR will stay on MCP - but likely that won't happen. This was our first year on MCP and we're really happy with it because it gives us the variety here in Eastern BC/Alberta, but also the ability to go elsewhere. If MCP is really downgraded next year, I may just get a season pass somewhere here and stick to that - but it would be nice to have options in Alberta/BC.

 

[marzNC]

I'm really curious as to what will happen with MCP - and what will be left of it. I'm curious if AltaBird and JHMR will stay on MCP - but likely that won't happen. This was our first year on MCP and we're really happy with it because it gives us the variety here in Eastern BC/Alberta, but also the ability to go elsewhere. If MCP is really downgraded next year, I may just get a season pass somewhere here and stick to that - but it would be nice to have options in Alberta/BC.

I disagree that it's likely that Alta, Snowbird, and JH will drop out of the MCP. I expect the Partner resorts on the Ikon Pass to only include a few days, along the model of the MAX Pass, with no discounts for additional days. Aspen created the MCP and is continuing to participate. I doubt Aspen would bother if the other key MCP mountains that have been included the longest were to drop out.

Also, it's been a perk for premium season passholders at MCP resorts to get the 50% discount at other MCP resorts. So they already figured out a way to keep people from jumping from a season pass to the MCP. I think they can figure out how to leverage the Ikon Pass and an MCP that includes not only resorts in Ikon, but also places like Taos, Telluride, and LL/Sunshine.

 

[Albertan ski girl]

I disagree that it's likely that Alta, Snowbird, and JH will drop out of the MCP. I expect the Partner resorts on the Ikon Pass to only include a few days, along the model of the MAX Pass, with no discounts for additional days. Aspen created the MCP and is continuing to participate. I doubt Aspen would bother if the other key MCP mountains that have been included the longest were to drop out.

Also, it's been a perk for premium season passholders at MCP resorts to get the 50% discount at other MCP resorts. So they already figured out a way to keep people from jumping from a season pass to the MCP. I think they can figure out how to leverage the Ikon Pass and an MCP that includes not only resorts in Ikon, but also places like Taos, Telluride, and LL/Sunshine.

I didn't realize that Aspen created the MCP - I thought that they might drop out of the MCP now with the Ikon. I had assumed that it was going to be like Whistler dropping out of MCP. That's really good to know. Hope that they do find a way to leverage the Ikon and the MCP - that might make it really interesting for us, especially if we can get a few days at a place like Big Sky. I guess we'll see in the next few weeks.

 

[marzNC]

I didn't realize that Aspen created the MCP - I thought that they might drop out of the MCP now with the Ikon. I had assumed that it was going to be like Whistler dropping out of MCP. That's really good to know. Hope that they do find a way to leverage the Ikon and the MCP - that might make it really interesting for us, especially if we can get a few days at a place like Big Sky. I guess we'll see in the next few weeks.

The situation for Whistler and Aspen are completely different. Whistler-Blackcomb was bought by Vail. So moved into the Epic Pass. No Vail resort has even been on the MCP. The owners of Aspen deliberately kept the ownership unchanged. The family are investors in Alterra.

Note that Snowbird is owned separately by the family that also own Powdr. For the Ikon Pass, Snowbird and the Powdr resorts are Partners.

Aspen mgmt announced early on that Aspen would stay in the MCP for 2018-19. Who knows what will happen after that. All of the multi-resort cooperative agreements are relatively new. Pretty clear they were created in reaction to the original Epic Pass. The business of figuring out how to keep slopes open and make a profit one way or another keeps evolving.

 

[mustski]

I'm a bit of a naysayer here. It may take another year, but resorts will choose one pass or the other. Unlike everyone else, I do not think Alterra intends to compete with the Epic pass (Vail); I think they intend to replace both the MCP and the MAX pass.

 

[Albertan ski girl]

Yeah - I do have to say that I really like these multi-resort passes, they definitely do open up new possibilities, and do make skiing more affordable (even though it is still a very expensive sport!).

 

[Albertan ski girl]

I'm a bit of a naysayer here. It may take another year, but resorts will choose one pass or the other. Unlike everyone else, I do not think Alterra intends to compete with the Epic pass (Vail); I think they intend to replace both the MCP and the MAX pass.

That was my first thought, but I'm not sure...who knows?

 

[rhymeandreason]

This article from Outside in 2014 discusses the effects of multi destination passes on small mountains.

https://www.outsideonline.com/1928236/how-low-cost-combo-passes-affect-small-ski-areas

And this post from Silverton seems to support this idea

https://silvertonmountain.com/heli-skiing-walmat-and-the-epic-pass-era/

 

[Albertan ski girl]

Well, isn't this interesting. It appears that Telluride is joining the Epic pass, which likely means it's off the MCP.

https://www.epicpass.com/info/telluride-faqs.aspx

 

[just jane]

Silverton is such a unique mountain on so many levels though. I can’t think of anyplace else that’s comparable.

 

[rhymeandreason]

It’s confirmed that Telluride will no longer be a part of Mountain Collective next year.

https://www.epicpass.com/info/telluride-faqs.aspx

Crested Butte is one of the few CO resorts without a tie to either Epic or Ikon.

 

[skibum4ever]

Here's an interesting comparison of the 2 passes:


https://zrankings.com/articles/ikon-pass-vs-epic-pass

 

[rhymeandreason]

I used to be sure that Ikon wouldn’t offer an unlimited sub $1000 product like the Epic pass, but after reading about Vail’s business model, it seems silly for Ikon not to follow lead. Vail has figured out how to make money in off seasons, which was usually the doom of ski resorts, by massively preselling passes. However, Alterra may be able to sell their passes at a higher price due to the prestige of their mountains. We shall see!

As someone who considers PCMR to be my home mountain (even if I am only there on holidays), I found this article on the Vail business model very interesting.

https://www.theatlantic.com/busines...ness-the-economics-of-big-ski-resorts/252180/

 

[CarverJill]

I'm late to this discussion but wanted to add that I think its too bad there will likely not be a pass like the MCP. The early season price of that was unbeatable if you could make it to at least 2 of the mountains. Also spending $300 (or whatever it was) wasn't a huge commitment, spending $1000 for a pass is a completely different story IMO.

 

[VickiK]

I wonder sometimes if I'll ever be priced out from the skiing market. I dearly love to go skiing, but I guess if that were the case, I'd find something else. Terrible thought.

 

[marymack]

I wonder sometimes if I'll ever be priced out from the skiing market. I dearly love to go skiing, but I guess if that were the case, I'd find something else. Terrible thought.

I know....what I have found is that skiing is becoming/maintaining affordability(ish) for the people that go a lot. They have their own equipment, they know to pack their own lunch, they don't need lessons, they know where to get deals (e.g. liftopia or online from the resort ahead of time) or it makes sense for them to get a pass. If you go enough having a pass is totally worth it, I paid $450 for my Max pass last spring, and had basically "paid for it" skiing 6 times in December.
In addition, there are a lot of deals out there for the rank beginners (lift, lesson, rentals for under $100 for the day, some places (e.g. Ragged Mountain) have FREE beginner packages).
Where I see the biggest hit is for the family that goes skiing say under 5 times a season. If they are renting equipment each day, putting the kids in lessons, buying lunch from the cafeteria and paying the window rate on lift tickets, its easy to see how quickly it adds up to a ridiculous amount. Although my BF and I get out to ski a lot right now, I do wonder what will happen once we have kids and other priorities.

The other solution: work for the mountain! I teach 2 nights a week and in exchange get free skiing at my home hill, "letters" to take to other mountains to get usually at least 50% off, deals on equipment through PSIA, 50% off food in the cafeteria (I often skip lunch on the days I know I'm teaching because I know I can get a chicken wrap and soda for under $5 when I get to the hill). Plus I figure any money I make pads out my wallet a bit so when I'm skiing on the weekends it pays for gas to get to the mountain and a waffle at the end of the day.

 

[VickiK]

I have a season pass and have my own equipment. Staying in condo means I can cook my own breakfast and dinner, although usually 1 of 2 nights is dining out. I've caved to my BF's meal-planning concept of "trail mix, jerky, and a banana, there's a meal", so buying food/drink is a rare occurrence.

I'd like to work for a resort after I retire, so yes, those are great and useful perks!

 

[rhymeandreason]

I know....what I have found is that skiing is becoming/maintaining affordability(ish) for the people that go a lot. They have their own equipment, they know to pack their own lunch, they don't need lessons, they know where to get deals (e.g. liftopia or online from the resort ahead of time) or it makes sense for them to get a pass. If you go enough having a pass is totally worth it, I paid $450 for my Max pass last spring, and had basically "paid for it" skiing 6 times in December.
In addition, there are a lot of deals out there for the rank beginners (lift, lesson, rentals for under $100 for the day, some places (e.g. Ragged Mountain) have FREE beginner packages).
Where I see the biggest hit is for the family that goes skiing say under 5 times a season. If they are renting equipment each day, putting the kids in lessons, buying lunch from the cafeteria and paying the window rate on lift tickets, its easy to see how quickly it adds up to a ridiculous amount. Although my BF and I get out to ski a lot right now, I do wonder what will happen once we have kids and other priorities.

The other solution: work for the mountain! I teach 2 nights a week and in exchange get free skiing at my home hill, "letters" to take to other mountains to get usually at least 50% off, deals on equipment through PSIA, 50% off food in the cafeteria (I often skip lunch on the days I know I'm teaching because I know I can get a chicken wrap and soda for under $5 when I get to the hill). Plus I figure any money I make pads out my wallet a bit so when I'm skiing on the weekends it pays for gas to get to the mountain and a waffle at the end of the day.

I agree - the consolidation of resorts makes it more affordable for ski enthusiasts to ski at destination resorts. That is, we are saving more money per trip, but probably spending more per season. But most people don’t become a skier at a destination resort. It is a big gamble to outlay that much money to test out the sport at a big hill. They learn at their local hill and if they love it, they commit their time and money to a ski holiday.

I am worried about the small independent hills that don’t have the benefit of diversified locales to offset a bad winter. Did any on the east coast have to shutter last year because of the poor snow?

 

[mustski]

I think it comes down to where you are and how often you ski. Currently, the Cali4nia pass has worked for me because I ski BBMR every weekend (when we ACTUALLY have snow!) and the slight increase in cost for including Mammoth was totally worth it. The Ikon pass will have to be within a reasonable range for me to choose it. I can happily buy a pass for SV and then buy one of the various Epic pass offerings for my 2 weeks of travel.

 

[Randi M.]

If anything be hears about any multi mountain passes to replace Max Pass that are great for east coast skiing, please post them. I know they aren’t as exciting as the activity for the elite mountains but for us east coasters it makes a huge difference. So far I’ve only been able to find Peak Pass and it’s not a great substitute. TIA!