They do a bit, but you can have them re-molded. I did at the beginning of the season and they feel like brand new.
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Never ending boot saga continues
- Thread starter SquidWeaselYay
- Start date
They do a bit, but you can have them re-molded. I did at the beginning of the season and they feel like brand new.
tinymoose
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
How long have you had yours? You also ski a lot. I get anywhere, on average, from 15-25 days a season.
This is my third season with my liners, so I figure right now I have about 215 days on them. I seriously need to start looking for new boots.
marzNC
Angel Diva
I recently re-molded Intuition liners to my current boots. Used them in the previous boots for three seasons. Getting new boots had nothing to do with the Intuition liners. Expect to get at least a couple more seasons (~100 days) from the liners.
Was getting new footbeds at Boot Doctors in Taos the other day. One of the boot fitters was talking about Intuition vs Zipfit. Said Zipfit lasted much longer. But seems to me that the number of days for the Intuitions was on the order of 200-300 days. That's far more than 2 seasons for the average recreational skier.
MaineSkiLady
Angel Diva
I also have narrow size 11, but slightly wider at ball of foot.
I've had both models and get better comfort with the Rumor (no longer made!>buy old stock asap!). I had the Soul Sisters heat-molded twice and didn't get a good fit. Rumors were out of the box. I didn't even get the liners heat molded, let "my feet do the molding." (This is an option.) Maybe not perfect, but neither is my skiing. Good enough for close-out price of $219.
However, this likely won't work for OP with her narrow feet (I had previously been in a 98 last that was blown out sixth toe).
Good to know the FTO's have worked out for you. DH wears them as well, Tom Wallisch and Classic. No fighting the on/off!
SquidWeaselYay
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I'm thinking that if 97 is still way too wide, 99 is going to be an even bigger problem (pun intended).
I wish they made a 95 last super low volume boot.
The really low heel to instep ratio is my second fiasco. I can't remember the measurement, but it is really low, a perfect L like @contesstant.
If she could find something, I hope I can too.. Was looking up ZJ race boots (suggested by JH boot fitter), but Lange has too high of an instep for me even in the RX Lv I used to be in, so not sure about that. Maybe Head Raptor.... I'll see what another fitter says and go from there.
I wish they made a 95 last super low volume boot.
The really low heel to instep ratio is my second fiasco. I can't remember the measurement, but it is really low, a perfect L like @contesstant.
If she could find something, I hope I can too.. Was looking up ZJ race boots (suggested by JH boot fitter), but Lange has too high of an instep for me even in the RX Lv I used to be in, so not sure about that. Maybe Head Raptor.... I'll see what another fitter says and go from there.
elemmac
Angel Diva
@SquidWeaselYay - Sorry, a bit long winded post here...
I know boot fitting online is frowned upon, but I'm going to throw this option out to you only because I measure with almost exactly the same width foot. It sounds like you might have a slightly lower instep than me, but mine is low enough to be the general problem area of my boot fitting. I got a pair of Nordica ProMachine 115w's this year...and they are amazing. I measure between a 23.5 and 24, and am wearing a 23.5. I should have probably gone down to the 22.5, to get a slightly more aggressive fit.
With that being said, I've also heard a few people that have a "high" or "medium" instep also like these boots...so I'm not really sure...maybe they're not buckling them as tight as I am (which is normally the 2nd rung for the instep), or they may have a more aggressive fit top to bottom.
When you're getting a boot fitted, keep in mind not all last's are created equal...kind of like flex. Although it's described as the measurement of the widest part of the boot...this is all a bit subjective to where the manufacturer puts the widest part. And there's no real rule to how much narrower each size is than the one above it...a 98mm last in one boot might be 95mm in a 23.5 and another might be 93mm. Further, the shape of the boot matters quite a bit. The last might be the widest part, but then where does the boot go from there? More square in the toes? Does it come to more of a point? How about depth top to bottom in the toe box? What I'm getting at here is don't rule out a boot solely on how it's described last-wise...there are a lot of other things that can change the fit of a "98mm" lasted boot.
With a 90mm foot, in a 23.5 boot I would suspect that your low-volume-ness might be more of the issue than the width itself. Even with a boot at 98mm, that's only 4mm on each side of your foot (that's not even taking into account the reduction based on a small size). A liner and a sock will take up that space pretty quickly. This is not to say your foot isn't moving side to side...but it might be "squishing" side to side rather than sliding flat due to extra space on the sides of your feet. This could also explain some of the pain you're experiencing despite having a very good insole. Have you tried taking up extra space under the liner? This can be achieved by adding a Bontex shim (super cheap online) under your liner.
Just a couple of thoughts to ponder, and hopefully something that will help your boot fitting saga. Good luck!
I know boot fitting online is frowned upon, but I'm going to throw this option out to you only because I measure with almost exactly the same width foot. It sounds like you might have a slightly lower instep than me, but mine is low enough to be the general problem area of my boot fitting. I got a pair of Nordica ProMachine 115w's this year...and they are amazing. I measure between a 23.5 and 24, and am wearing a 23.5. I should have probably gone down to the 22.5, to get a slightly more aggressive fit.
With that being said, I've also heard a few people that have a "high" or "medium" instep also like these boots...so I'm not really sure...maybe they're not buckling them as tight as I am (which is normally the 2nd rung for the instep), or they may have a more aggressive fit top to bottom.
When you're getting a boot fitted, keep in mind not all last's are created equal...kind of like flex. Although it's described as the measurement of the widest part of the boot...this is all a bit subjective to where the manufacturer puts the widest part. And there's no real rule to how much narrower each size is than the one above it...a 98mm last in one boot might be 95mm in a 23.5 and another might be 93mm. Further, the shape of the boot matters quite a bit. The last might be the widest part, but then where does the boot go from there? More square in the toes? Does it come to more of a point? How about depth top to bottom in the toe box? What I'm getting at here is don't rule out a boot solely on how it's described last-wise...there are a lot of other things that can change the fit of a "98mm" lasted boot.
With a 90mm foot, in a 23.5 boot I would suspect that your low-volume-ness might be more of the issue than the width itself. Even with a boot at 98mm, that's only 4mm on each side of your foot (that's not even taking into account the reduction based on a small size). A liner and a sock will take up that space pretty quickly. This is not to say your foot isn't moving side to side...but it might be "squishing" side to side rather than sliding flat due to extra space on the sides of your feet. This could also explain some of the pain you're experiencing despite having a very good insole. Have you tried taking up extra space under the liner? This can be achieved by adding a Bontex shim (super cheap online) under your liner.
Just a couple of thoughts to ponder, and hopefully something that will help your boot fitting saga. Good luck!
contesstant
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Heads are a close second for me in fit, but the race boots just wreaked havoc on my stance.
I used Bontex shims fairly successfully in a few different boots, but nothing, not Intuition, not Zipfits (which I really did like) come close to what the Boot Doc liners have done.
Nordica is also a pretty good fit for me, but for whatever reason, Tecnica is just a bit better. If I recall, the Tecnica lengths are actually a tad LONGER in relation to their lasts compared to other brands, which allows me into a 22.5 when I truly measure a 23.5. A 22.5 in a Nordica is a toe squisher. Boots progressively get narrower as they get smaller.
If I have one complaint about the Tecnicas, it's that they're very "lively", meaning, I get a lot of snow feedback. This is preferable to some, but I would prefer they were a bit quieter on snow. That being said, they fit my foot (with the BD liner.)
I used Bontex shims fairly successfully in a few different boots, but nothing, not Intuition, not Zipfits (which I really did like) come close to what the Boot Doc liners have done.
Nordica is also a pretty good fit for me, but for whatever reason, Tecnica is just a bit better. If I recall, the Tecnica lengths are actually a tad LONGER in relation to their lasts compared to other brands, which allows me into a 22.5 when I truly measure a 23.5. A 22.5 in a Nordica is a toe squisher. Boots progressively get narrower as they get smaller.
If I have one complaint about the Tecnicas, it's that they're very "lively", meaning, I get a lot of snow feedback. This is preferable to some, but I would prefer they were a bit quieter on snow. That being said, they fit my foot (with the BD liner.)
SquidWeaselYay
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Update: I added a shim under the zipfits. This is the best it has felt so far. My toes are a little compressed and get cold faster, but the lateral slop is gone and i can actually flex my boots better. The calf pain is gone. Control > toe comfort lol.
I think I took too much omfit out of the tongue and inside ankle of the right boot, but I'm going to ski them a few more times and see. I can add it back easily if so.
This is the closest I have been to a good fit, I am hoping I am a few small tweaks away from boots I want to marry!
I think I took too much omfit out of the tongue and inside ankle of the right boot, but I'm going to ski them a few more times and see. I can add it back easily if so.
This is the closest I have been to a good fit, I am hoping I am a few small tweaks away from boots I want to marry!
As opposed to boots you want to cheat on!
mustski
Angel Diva
Or throw out!
SquidWeaselYay
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Well, it felt good for a while....but even with the shim, the lateral slop is somehow BACK. Don't ask me how, I have no idea and it makes zero sense. It is fine while cruising blues, but going down anything steep with bumps and I can feel my foot squishing against the sides. I did try to put a thicker shim in, but then it started getting painful and my heel is not in the pocket in the shell as well and I can feel it starting to blister a little. Also, once the temp dropped after twilight, my boots became concrete blocks and I had trouble flexing again. :/
And I noticed that I have trouble getting to my outside edge and getting off of my inner edges. I was doing whirlibirds to try to feel what the issue is, and I actually couldn't release my inner edge and down I went. And no matter how hard I try to keep my right knee parallel to the left, it collapses inward.
I feel like my left ski is skiing flatter than my right, but I don't know what is up with my alignment. I'm starting to worry that the instaprints I got done in Jackson may not correct my pronation enough. My right ankle has worse pronation than my left, and that is the ski that I have more difficulty getting off of my inside edge. This is all in the uncanted x max shells.
I tried to put the whole shebang (zipfits, istaprints) into my canted set of xmax shells and then my forefoot squishes against the outside of my boots, and I am bowlegged until I am flexed (then I am good). The canting I had done to correct my knock-knees was with the Atomic canting system in my old superfeet footbeds, so probably can't use the canted shells with the new footbeds, I assume.
Also; the sole canting I had done was to correct my knees collapsing inward when I flex on a dynamic surface (flexing on foam from the atomic kit). Standing upright was pretty neutral. Anybody else get canted like that? The guys at JH told me that canting is to correct alignment with standing, not with dynamic movements. I actually went out and bought a set of used xmax shells (same model and size, a season older) in JH because they said I needed to go back to neutral, but now I can't seem to get off my inner edges. I'm neutral when I'm standing, but i'm knock-kneed when I flex. It happens when I do squats too, unless I slightly angle my feet outward.
I'm so confused.
This is looking more and more like I need to just start from absolute scratch again. Just like every year for the past 3. I thought I was onto something last night, but after a few runs, I could feel the slop again. I'm gonna go get collagen injections in my feet.
And I noticed that I have trouble getting to my outside edge and getting off of my inner edges. I was doing whirlibirds to try to feel what the issue is, and I actually couldn't release my inner edge and down I went. And no matter how hard I try to keep my right knee parallel to the left, it collapses inward.
I feel like my left ski is skiing flatter than my right, but I don't know what is up with my alignment. I'm starting to worry that the instaprints I got done in Jackson may not correct my pronation enough. My right ankle has worse pronation than my left, and that is the ski that I have more difficulty getting off of my inside edge. This is all in the uncanted x max shells.
I tried to put the whole shebang (zipfits, istaprints) into my canted set of xmax shells and then my forefoot squishes against the outside of my boots, and I am bowlegged until I am flexed (then I am good). The canting I had done to correct my knock-knees was with the Atomic canting system in my old superfeet footbeds, so probably can't use the canted shells with the new footbeds, I assume.
Also; the sole canting I had done was to correct my knees collapsing inward when I flex on a dynamic surface (flexing on foam from the atomic kit). Standing upright was pretty neutral. Anybody else get canted like that? The guys at JH told me that canting is to correct alignment with standing, not with dynamic movements. I actually went out and bought a set of used xmax shells (same model and size, a season older) in JH because they said I needed to go back to neutral, but now I can't seem to get off my inner edges. I'm neutral when I'm standing, but i'm knock-kneed when I flex. It happens when I do squats too, unless I slightly angle my feet outward.
I'm so confused.
This is looking more and more like I need to just start from absolute scratch again. Just like every year for the past 3. I thought I was onto something last night, but after a few runs, I could feel the slop again. I'm gonna go get collagen injections in my feet.
Skisailor
Angel Diva
The one tidbit I can provide is that canting is generally not a good way to correct for pronation. It sounds like you need custom footbeds - not superfeet - and the pronation is corrected on the bottom of the footbed by building up the inside half to tip your foot out a bit. Anytime you can make corrections inside the boot, start there.
SquidWeaselYay
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I had superfeet custom footbeds (the kind that hey heat up and vaccuum seal to your unweighted foot, lasers are involved to align you leg with your toes correctly), but I switched to Instaprints in Jackson Hole. The instaprints were semi-weighted (while I was seated) and I noticed that the arch was not as high (I have flat feet).
SquidWeaselYay
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Thinking of looking into Daleboots. Thoughts?
Are either of these foot beds plastic or cork? The cork for some people doesn't last. I had to have new Sidas custom footbeds made for the last pair of boots. He also had to align me. I got happy faces on my knees out it. So not sure about the system they used for you. Ah, and my guy does some national team member and lots of level 4 ski instructors. He's really good.
https://skiconnexions.ca/boots/alignment/
https://skiconnexions.ca/boots/alignment/
SquidWeaselYay
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
The Superfeet Custom were plastic, the Instaprints seem to be a rigid foam.
SquidWeaselYay
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
General question: Should canted boots feel weird to stand in, but neutral/flat when you flex against the tongue? Or should you feel flat and neutral standing in them?
liquidfeet
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
You are in the wrong boots. Fit comes first, then canting.
Blisters are a sure sign that the foot is moving in the boot.
Either the volume or width or length or some combination of the three is too big.
This is so sad, but it happens. It shouldn't happen. You need a better bootfitter and new boots.
Dale boots can be made to fit wide, tall (high volume) feet very well.
Where are you again?
