Going over video with drinks in hand sounds just about perfect!
After the video, some people might continue to drink and chat while others can leave.
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Your thoughts on ski clinics.
- Thread starter ski diva
- Start date
After the video, some people might continue to drink and chat while others can leave.
I've thought that a half-day clinic running from 10 to 2, no lunch break, might be good. Just make sure we can get our lift tickets issued in advance. I can be out skiing early. Others can sleep in. We meet at 10:00 on the snow.
Video Analysis - Ugh. I'm sure there is great value in it. But. It seems to disrupt an entire day. In a two-day program, it seems to be scheduled for the second day. So, I go out and screw up. Have my mistakes recorded. See my mistakes. And say Good-bye. Personally, I've never gotten enough out of it to be worth the price in terms of time. I'd rather be out on the snow with a great instructor.
Adding those two comments together ... apparently, I don't like the in-lodge time for any purpose.
The clinic I was in had 2 video sessions, one on the first day of the clinic and the second one on the last day of the clinic.
Also, the second one was a reasonably long run on tape, not just a few turns. I got feed back from the instructor AS I was being taped. The difference was obvious BEFORE and AFTER the shouted feedback.
Even though it was the end of the clinic, it's sobering to see how I did what I thought I was NOT doing! Sitting back, dropping my hand. Then, as I hear the instructor shouting to me (on tape), I started to ski better, like I actually knew what I was doing!
Video analysis is really good. Do not overlook that! You see you skiing, you remember how you felt, muscles etc. Then the instructor dissects it. A second video the next day will be dramatically different! Video is the best tool we as instructors have. I remember one video where I thought I was doing as asked. No way, not even close!
liquidfeet
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
One thing that bugs me in a group taught by a male instructor is when there is one very attractive woman in the group and she gets all the attention, to the detriment of all the other students. This has happened several times when I've been in group lessons. I'm not generalizing, because of course not all male instructors are so irresponsibly susceptible to being smitten by a woman student. But I've run into some that are. As an instructor privy to locker room talk, I've heard the joking about the 40 year old blonde yoga instructor taking a lesson. Older male instructors want that assignment.
Covie
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
The Roxy camp was the first and only clinic I have attended... but I actually experienced being in 2 different levels so it feels like 2 camps haha.
Maybe it was lung infection I was suffering from, or the boot sole adjustment after day 1 but the mid level 4 class on day 2 was very similar to the high level 5 class the day before! Not easier!
So that was a little strange - again it could have just been the state I was in...I did feel that the camp was very general, and it basically was a group lesson just with more people per instructor. I'm pretty sure there were 7 of us to 1 instructor on my 2nd camp day. WB has a Max 4 (ppl) camp this year which takes care of that. I liked that it was all girls and my instructor was really really nice and that I got a free sweatshirt, oh and it was affordable too - sounds great huh?
sooo... what this woman looks for in a clinic:
-must be cheaper than regular group lessons (on the same date)
-non peak season dates
-discount on something or free stuff (swag)
-discounted lift tickets
-high level instructors
Perhaps offer something a regular group lesson does not... specialty instruction or theme for intermediates and up (ie. powder, steeps, racing, moguls, back country etc... attendees could choose which camp would benefit their skiing the most.
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Many good comments in this thread.
I appreciate Covie's remarks regarding the offering of terrain challenges. Yes, there are camps for specific skill developments; steeps, powder, moguls, etc. However, it might be a great way to break up the day to choose an elective mini-course for let's say, the "afternoon session." Of course, this would only work in large clinics due to ski levels, but spending a few hours trying out those avoided , but desired (even secretly) types of runs can be
confidence-building and fun with a good instructor.
Discounted lift tickets should be included in the price. For the more expensive clinics lasting more than 2-3 days, it would be awesome to have an afternoon of equipment evaluation. Having guest techs and bootfitters available to make suggestions---not actual bootfittings---about boot fit, alignment, sizing. Information the skier can take home with her.
Discounted meals. Having a simple luncheon buffet at a specific on-mountain location would save lots of time and give people a chance to meet others. Meal is easier if included in the price of the Clinic Voucher.
And ..........the clinic should offer what is states in the brochure, website, . I went to a 3-day at Mammoth and it was not handled at all like the information stated. I will not return to that clinic.
I appreciate Covie's remarks regarding the offering of terrain challenges. Yes, there are camps for specific skill developments; steeps, powder, moguls, etc. However, it might be a great way to break up the day to choose an elective mini-course for let's say, the "afternoon session." Of course, this would only work in large clinics due to ski levels, but spending a few hours trying out those avoided , but desired (even secretly) types of runs can be
confidence-building and fun with a good instructor.
Discounted lift tickets should be included in the price. For the more expensive clinics lasting more than 2-3 days, it would be awesome to have an afternoon of equipment evaluation. Having guest techs and bootfitters available to make suggestions---not actual bootfittings---about boot fit, alignment, sizing. Information the skier can take home with her.
Discounted meals. Having a simple luncheon buffet at a specific on-mountain location would save lots of time and give people a chance to meet others. Meal is easier if included in the price of the Clinic Voucher.
And ..........the clinic should offer what is states in the brochure, website, . I went to a 3-day at Mammoth and it was not handled at all like the information stated. I will not return to that clinic.
volklgirl
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
My favorite clinics have been the old on-snow Jeanie Thoren clinics....3 days of exploring heel lifts, footbeds, and cant strips, all while demoing a range of skis and even boots and getting instruction from some fantastic L3 women. Not to mention the tireless Tom doing boot-fit work for those whose boots were already appropriate but maybe not dialed in.
I'd also way rather have a video analysis or tuning/waxing session than a wine tasting or spa treatment during group gatherings.
I've never done video analysis WITHOUT alcohol involved, so I don't know why those two things wouldn't go together anyway.
Spa treatment - well, that would be lovely, but I'm a little afraid of the price at a resort. And you can always arrange that on your own - or call it an option for a ski tuning clinic or time for a massage/spa treatment...
Breaking down groups appropriately is always a challenge, especially with smaller events. But good instructors can mitigate it to some extent, and I think it takes a bit of patience and understanding on the part of the participants too. It's not a private lesson and there are so many factors aside from just skill - fitness, fear, complete lack of fear (which can be even worse), pace, talkativeness....
Things I've enjoyed as part of camps - the video analysis, the group fun of exploring new terrain I hadn't found on my own... I did a steeps camp at Snowbird that involved rappelling off of the Cliff Lodge in ski boots - that was fun. I don't even know what the point of that was but it was a blast. Most of the steeps camps I've done also involve some backcountry/beacon training, which is very useful.
Magnatude
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I've done one women's all-day clinic (in Revelstoke, Canada), and a two-day weekend clinic in NZ (with accommodation included).
We had female instructors at both, which was great, though to be fair, I've never had a bad lesson from a guy either.
Both clinics were aimed at intermediate level and up, but the Revelstoke one only had three students in the advanced class, which was bliss. The NZ clinic had around 8, which meant the instructor had less time to focus on individual students. Neither used video analysis, but it would certainly have been useful.
The Revelstoke clinic included a very nice lunch at the base restaurant, but nothing else apart from the lessons. The day was ridiculously good value at around $CAD60. (The ski pass was extra, and full-priced). It also didn't hurt that the day involved being guided around some very remote parts of the huge in-bounds off-piste skiing at Revelstoke, which I would never have dared to go looking for otherwise. It's very easy to get lost there.
The NZ clinic was around $NZ250 ($US202), but included day 1 lunch, an apres-ski yoga session, apres-ski bubbles, 2-course dinner, bunk accommodation at the club lodge, day 2 breakfast, a snow safety session (including a bit of mucking around with transceivers etc) with a ski patroller, lunch at the cafe, prizes, and two full days of lessons. The intermediate group did have video analysis. I thought this clinic was also pretty good value, though it could have been improved with a smaller group size (adding another instructor) and video analysis for everyone. The yoga was a nice touch to end the first day, though I'm sure a session in the morning pre-skiing would have been a reasonable alternative.
We had female instructors at both, which was great, though to be fair, I've never had a bad lesson from a guy either.
Both clinics were aimed at intermediate level and up, but the Revelstoke one only had three students in the advanced class, which was bliss. The NZ clinic had around 8, which meant the instructor had less time to focus on individual students. Neither used video analysis, but it would certainly have been useful.
The Revelstoke clinic included a very nice lunch at the base restaurant, but nothing else apart from the lessons. The day was ridiculously good value at around $CAD60. (The ski pass was extra, and full-priced). It also didn't hurt that the day involved being guided around some very remote parts of the huge in-bounds off-piste skiing at Revelstoke, which I would never have dared to go looking for otherwise. It's very easy to get lost there.
The NZ clinic was around $NZ250 ($US202), but included day 1 lunch, an apres-ski yoga session, apres-ski bubbles, 2-course dinner, bunk accommodation at the club lodge, day 2 breakfast, a snow safety session (including a bit of mucking around with transceivers etc) with a ski patroller, lunch at the cafe, prizes, and two full days of lessons. The intermediate group did have video analysis. I thought this clinic was also pretty good value, though it could have been improved with a smaller group size (adding another instructor) and video analysis for everyone. The yoga was a nice touch to end the first day, though I'm sure a session in the morning pre-skiing would have been a reasonable alternative.
melchap
Certified Ski Diva
For a ski clinic I'd be looking for something more on the coaching side. I don't even care if it's women only or mixed gender.
What I'd really love would be to go to a mogul camp during the summer. But all the mogul camps seem to be a week long plus an extra weekday for travel. That's just too much time for me to take of work and too much vacation time without my family. I wish there was a summer mogul camp that was 4 days of skiing and included weekend time so I could take less than a week off of work or finish out the week with family time.
What I'd really love would be to go to a mogul camp during the summer. But all the mogul camps seem to be a week long plus an extra weekday for travel. That's just too much time for me to take of work and too much vacation time without my family. I wish there was a summer mogul camp that was 4 days of skiing and included weekend time so I could take less than a week off of work or finish out the week with family time.
litterbug
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
bounceswoosh
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Maybe there's a summer mogul camp in Chile?
SnowHot
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
To the OP:
One element that I'd like to see added to a ski is gear analysis in relation to the instruction.
I've been a ski gear geek for some time, a boot fitter, and an instructor for a short bit.
The one thing I see from both sides of my view is that there are many women who are on gear chosen by their SO, or they are on gear that a guy advised them on at a ski shop, often a guy who hasn't skied any of the stuff they're selling.
What I found when I was shadowing some of the senior instructors at the women's clinic at Mt Rose was that women were in boots too big, or skis that are wrong for their style/technical ability/current instruction focus.
Ideally,I'd like to see
- ...a good bootfitter shadow clinic groups to check alignment(and/or fit)
- ...A knowledgeable ski gear person(preferably a woman who skis a majority of the skis during test days) to share info about the right ski for the person in question
- ...A demo tent with a nice variety of women's specific skis
At Mt Rose, I had the benefit of taking women to the bobo's demo tent to put them on different skis that worked with them instead of against them.
I agree, however.... the catch-22 is that I wonder if women who allow other people to choose their gear or just by whatever because someone in a shop told them to.... are they going to be interested in demoing/learning about gear? I seem to think that if they were, they wouldn't be in that situation in the first place.
I guess what I'm saying is a marketing thing. If you market that as a big focus, you probably would get the gear geeks who don't have that many gear issues in the first place. The trick is bringing in the people who need gear help but don't know that they need gear help, right?
I would say that this was done to some extent in our Roxy group. Covie was having problems with her boots and mountainxtc got her to the boot fitter Saturday night. Now it wasn't part of the clinic. But we had a knowledgeable coach that could help. To incorporate that into that particular clinic, we would need an extra day. Or myabe a clinic that focuses on that would be appropriate.
Magnatude
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I've only ever had two instructors who passed comment on my gear: one said my boots were too stiff, and he was probably right, though they were also too big; and the other who had us cut 10-15cm off our poles (made a huge difference). I'm surprised more don't mention gear, since it plays such a huge part in how we ski.
I'm a bit ambivalent about having demo skis at a ski clinic -- if you end up having lessons on the demo gear, knowing that you're not going to/able to buy it, the whole clinic could end on a depressing note. I once had a lesson on demo skis (Nordica Victory) and ended up having to buy them because I couldn't face going back to my old skis, though it took until the following year, when I found a pair I could actually afford. On-snow bootfitting advice and/or actual boot-fitting though, that's a great idea. As is any sort of gear advice, if it comes from someone knowledgeable.
I'm a bit ambivalent about having demo skis at a ski clinic -- if you end up having lessons on the demo gear, knowing that you're not going to/able to buy it, the whole clinic could end on a depressing note. I once had a lesson on demo skis (Nordica Victory) and ended up having to buy them because I couldn't face going back to my old skis, though it took until the following year, when I found a pair I could actually afford. On-snow bootfitting advice and/or actual boot-fitting though, that's a great idea. As is any sort of gear advice, if it comes from someone knowledgeable.
marzNC
Angel Diva
One of the draws for the NASTC clinic for me was the fact that demo skis were available. I was at the stage of starting to learn more about my skiing and the options for buying skis, as well as picking skis to rent when out west.
I think a low key approach to teaching a bit about the advantages of working with a boot fitter and basic considering for choosing skis is a good idea. Especially for clinics geared towards intermediate women who learned as adults. Just because someone has been willing to follow the lead of their SO or ski shop sales person doesn't mean that they wouldn't be interested in learning more. Quite possible they are in the stage of learning that they don't know what they don't know . . . and neither does their SO when it comes to women's gear.
I think a low key approach to teaching a bit about the advantages of working with a boot fitter and basic considering for choosing skis is a good idea. Especially for clinics geared towards intermediate women who learned as adults. Just because someone has been willing to follow the lead of their SO or ski shop sales person doesn't mean that they wouldn't be interested in learning more. Quite possible they are in the stage of learning that they don't know what they don't know . . . and neither does their SO when it comes to women's gear.
