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Question: Would different skis make it easier to ski steeper terrain?

CindiSue

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I am an intermediate skier and really don't ski often enough to break through and get really good. Maybe next year... (I always say that...) I feel like I'd need to go every day for a while, and just not sure I would every be willing to do that. But the problem I have is I live in Sun Valley and the mountain in general is very steep, just a bit steeper than my skill level. I can ski it, but it's not pretty.

My skis are Atomic Cloud 8's from 5-6 years ago. They seem to work fine but I have no idea how I would tell. I just don't feel that demo'ing something that would help me because I don't think I could tell the skis from my own skiing. Some people tell me skis have changed a lot latey. I am not opposed to "buying skill" if new skis would somehow make it easier to ski on steeper slopes. Any thoughts about that? Or do I just need to put in the time :-)
 

badger

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I think taking a few lessons would offer the most benefit to you. Your instructor can check all the important issues when seeing you ski. Technique and confidence will bring so much to your skiing that you might want to demo some other skis after you've gained more on-mountain time. If you are comfortable with your present skis you should use those to create a foundation of familiarity while learning new terrain. Like you said, a different ski could throw off your perception. But after a lesson or two, you'd probably love to get on some of the newer models.
 

marzNC

Angel Diva
I am an intermediate skier and really don't ski often enough to break through and get really good. Maybe next year... (I always say that...) I feel like I'd need to go every day for a while, and just not sure I would every be willing to do that. But the problem I have is I live in Sun Valley and the mountain in general is very steep, just a bit steeper than my skill level. I can ski it, but it's not pretty.

My skis are Atomic Cloud 8's from 5-6 years ago. They seem to work fine but I have no idea how I would tell. I just don't feel that demo'ing something that would help me because I don't think I could tell the skis from my own skiing. Some people tell me skis have changed a lot latey. I am not opposed to "buying skill" if new skis would somehow make it easier to ski on steeper slopes. Any thoughts about that? Or do I just need to put in the time :-)
How did you learn to ski? As a adult or younger? If you were skiing at Dollar, would you be able to make short, medium, and long turns at full speed?

I got to check out Sun Valley for the first time in Jan. Certainly can understand that the greens and blues can be pretty tough, especially if snow conditions are on the scraped off side. I'm an advanced skier but in the afternoons I was avoiding slick areas. In my case, the fact that I was using Black Pearls was a factor. Had I had my carvers, I probably would've been happier.

I started demo'ing skis when I was an older intermediate who had only skied 30 days in 20 years. I could still tell the difference between skis. Either a ski was fun or it was too much work. But what made a bigger difference was when I got properly fitted boots.
 

mustski

Angel Diva
I will be the enabling voice! The new technology does make turning easier. Would that help on steeper slopes? Maybe. If you are able to turn more often and easier then theoretically you can control speed more easily which helps on steeper terrain. However, without proper technique equipment won't help much. I'm with Marz on this one, invest your dollars in lessons and let the instructor make equipment suggestions as you progress.

BTW Skiing more often is really HUGE in improvement and the better you get, the more you will want to ski!
 

sibhusky

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I found myself enjoying some of the steeps here way more with my newest pair of skis. They are turnier than I've had before AND I've changed my side edge bevel to 3°. But that was just this year and it started with the ski. I always worried before that 1) my ski wasn't going to "come around" in time or 2) hold on to the hill when it did. Both pieces working have made me much more confident and stuff that used to terrify me I go down eagerly.
 

Jilly

Moderator
Staff member
The Cloud 8 is still a current model with Atomic. So there is really nothing wrong with your skis. I agree with above that a lesson would be money well spent. Confidence and knowledge that a lesson will impart will go a long ways.
 

nopoleskier

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
^^ DItto what Jilly said.. Cloud 8 are modern ski and really nice intermediate learning tool..

I too visited Sun Valley this winter. Yes it is Steep! If you can master SV you'll be happy at other Mts! Yes I agree, Take some lessons, try for the same instructor have them help you master 'huey, duey and leuy" then you can hit the big black ones that run down to Warm Springs!

Ski ski ski.. best way to get better..
 

tinymoose

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I'm going to ditto all of the very wise people in the post above. Please don't make the mistake I did. I had a pair of Volkl Lunas that were a GREAT intermediate ski to learn on. They were 142 in length so too short for me at 5'1". I replaced them with Idylls briefly and then Kenjas, but I should have just picked up a longer pair of Lunas since I liked them minus the length issue. Instead I landed myself on some Volkl Kenjas. Fun ski, I enjoyed skiing them a ton and felt I could control them just fine... they were very confidence inspiring, but in the end they were realistically way too much ski for my size and ability. Going softer again this year has been incredibly helpful for me. Even though I only skied 14 days this year, I can see a difference on video in my turns this year vs. last year. Be wary of going to too much ski too soon, because it certainly can hold you back. In retrospect now I wish I hadn't spent two years on such a stiff ski. I still improved as a skier in those two years, but I think the ski still limited me.
 

marzNC

Angel Diva
Hmm, I thought I saw a duplicate.

What I mentioned in the post that didn't end up making it was that Sun Valley has a multi-week program for women.

Early season lessons can be good when fewer people are thinking about lessons so more likely to get a solo lesson or only one other student.
 

Jilly

Moderator
Staff member
Hmm, I thought I saw a duplicate.

What I mentioned in the post that didn't end up making it was that Sun Valley has a multi-week program for women.

Early season lessons can be good when fewer people are thinking about lessons so more likely to get a solo lesson or only one other student.

Fixed it...
 

SallyCat

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I'll tell a story that sounds like the message is "buy fancy gear," but in fact I wholeheartedly agree with everyone here who says take lessons: in my limited experience, good form and practice are what build confidence. But also: definitely demo if you get a chance, if for no other reason than to get a sense of how different skis feel, what that means for you, and which skis make you feel confident, which ones expose your weak areas, etc. All of that will help with your skiing overall.

So here's the story: I took a couple of lessons and worked hard on my form this season (my first in 30 years) on a pair of K2 Comanches, which I think came from some dusty, neglected back closet in the rental area. Or possibly a time machine. They were basically fine: a limp-noodle beginner ski with dull edges; probably hadn't been tuned in a decade. But I learned the basics and developed some good habits and was having fun practicing as much as I could.

The first fancy/ spendy thing I bought were good boots from a quality ski shop that takes care with fitting them properly. Nothing hard core: just some beginner-level Salomons. I figured that would help me progress better than staying in the rental boots, and that I didn't care too much about what type of ski I was on as long as the length seemed right.

Then one day for fun I paid $50 bucks and demoed some skis at Camelback (in the Poconos). First ski: Rossignol Temptation 88. Hated it. Probably I just didn't know what to do with it. Brought it back and the guy recommended the Volkl Charisma, so I took them out. On the chair ride I looked them up on my phone and saw that they were billed as "expert" skis, and I thought "No way are these for me. It's probably not even safe that I'm on them. I should ski slowly back the the lodge and return them, backing respectfully away from the demo counter, averting my eyes from all of the other skis I'm not worthy of."

So I got off the chair and proceeded to style the green slope with unbelievably precise, powerful carves of varied sizes. (I know, it was just a beginner slope, but I hadn't come close to that feeling of precision before, or to that level of confidence and competence. Holy cow!) So I went on some blue trails and did the same, with a few predictable intermediate mistakes: backseat driving, picking up my downhill ski, etc. whenever anything got a little steep or choppy. But the bottom line was that these skis literally made me a better skier. They didn't let me get away with lazy form, and they were carving machines with amazing edge hold, which meant I could control my speed better, make turns with more intention, zip confidently around obstacles (i.e. snowboarders strewn about the trail as though they'd been casualties of an artillery barrage).

Here's the takeaway, I think: The Charismas made me a better skier because they allowed me to really use the skills that I had been honing on the wet noodles. They showed me why good form and technique mattered, and where it could take me. They would be terrible beginner skis, I'm sure. But I would have avoided them as an intermediate, too, because they were labelled "Mega-Expert-Shredder-Mountain Goddess" and that ain't me.

I'm so glad the guy in the demo cave prodded me to try them. I'm about to buy a pair to be my frontside carvers and main ski. I'm not ready for black diamonds yet but I'm getting there, and not just to hurl myself down them as a flailing, terrified victim of gravity, but as a confident skier with good technique enhanced by equipment that works to my advantage.
 
@SallyCat I had a similar experience with the Charismas. I danced with them for a couple of years, demoed them but ended up buying other skis. Demoed them last year and one thing my guy noticed was that I was skiing more parallel with them. However, I don't think I was ready for them just yet. Took some lessons over this past year and worked my tail off. Demoed them again over this past presidents day weekend and bam, smiling from ear to ear and love at first sight. Sold my other carvers and now have these. I love these skis so much that I have a pair of 2013s that I bought for teaching and just bought a brand new pair of 2016s to use when I'm not teaching. I have taken numerous lessons and just worked very hard and will continue to work hard.

That said lessons are very important, VERY and without proper technique these skis aren't everything but I tell ya what I sure feel great on a steep with these skis attached to my feet. As I said lessons are VERY important and I take them often. I may actually take one this weekend.

I love these skis so much. They are stable, fun to ski on, turn like a dream and OMG what edge grip. I feel very comfortable to tackle just about any terrain when I ski the Charismas. I feel very similar about my Volkl Kenjas but bring out the Charismas on icier/more bioler plate days.
 

SallyCat

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
@surfsnowgirl I agree absolutely about lessons being the first and most important answer to Cindisue's question. Instruction, feedback, and practice, practice, practice are what made the Charismas work for me. I tried them at just the right point in my progression.

PS: Who's the proud owner of a brand-new pair of mounted 2015 Charismas as of 2:30 this afternoon. THIS Diva in training! Woohoo!!
 
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bounceswoosh

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I haven't noticed skis being better or worse for steeps per se. There are skis that work better for me at any angle, and others that are worse. If a ski works well for me, I have confidence, and confidence is key on steeps.

Steep, by the way, is completely relative - your steep might be my mellow, or vice versa. When you get on something you find steep, fear creeps in. You're afraid of letting your skis run, and you're afraid of the consequences if you lose your grip on the snow. So you get nervous, and you start doing things you would never do on a less-steep run. But the thing is, good skiing is the same on a steep run as it is on a mellow run. So ... back to where I started. The best ski for steeps is the ski you are already happy with on less-steep terrain, because when you're nervous, at least you'll have narrowed it down to being nervous about your own ability - not being nervous because you're not sure if the ski will do as it's told.
 
I haven't noticed skis being better or worse for steeps per se. There are skis that work better for me at any angle, and others that are worse. If a ski works well for me, I have confidence, and confidence is key on steeps.

Steep, by the way, is completely relative - your steep might be my mellow, or vice versa. When you get on something you find steep, fear creeps in. You're afraid of letting your skis run, and you're afraid of the consequences if you lose your grip on the snow. So you get nervous, and you start doing things you would never do on a less-steep run. But the thing is, good skiing is the same on a steep run as it is on a mellow run. So ... back to where I started. The best ski for steeps is the ski you are already happy with on less-steep terrain, because when you're nervous, at least you'll have narrowed it down to being nervous about your own ability - not being nervous because you're not sure if the ski will do as it's told.

I guess I've found the skis that work better for me are the stiffer ones, particularly on the relative term of something steep. I ski on a lot of ice/hard pack and just really like ginsu knives attached to my feet and I've just found the a fairly stiff ski with metal digs right in there and settles me right down so I can do what I need to do. I find I ski better on something I consider steep because I have to pay attention and focus on what I'm doing. When I'm on something I consider steep I have my moment of freak out and then I calm right down and focus on skiing down. I tend to ski better on steeper I am finding. I get into trouble on a flat or less steep because I get lax and my technique can falter a bit.

I don't love a ski just because of how it performs on "steep" terrain. I love a ski because of how it feels overall when I'm skiing it. When I'm carving down a groomer and feel like the skis is under me and solid I feel confident and more willing to take it on more challenging terrain. I feel this way about all my skis currently so I feel like we'll be together for a good long while.
 

marzNC

Angel Diva
There is an interesting discussion here that might be of interest apropos of intermediates on more advanced skis:

https://www.epicski.com/t/65117/intermediate-skiers-who-prefer-expert-skis
Note that this thread is from 2008. The comments may still apply but then again perhaps skis marketed towards intermediates have changed some what since then.

When I started demo'ing, I was an intermediate on groomers. I didn't really worry too much about whether a ski was considered for intermediates or advanced. What I ended up buying first was a K2 ski that was considered advanced but not expert.
 

mustski

Angel Diva
The Cloud 8 is still a current model with Atomic. So there is really nothing wrong with your skis. I agree with above that a lesson would be money well spent. Confidence and knowledge that a lesson will impart will go a long ways.
Sorry to disagree. The OP said the skis were 5 or 6 years old so no tip rocker. The new Cloud 8's have tip rocker and, from my experience, tip rocker makes all the difference in the world in the turny feel of the newer technology. I agree that lessons are still the best investment, but she is not on the most current technology.
 

Liquid Yellow

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I found myself enjoying some of the steeps here way more with my newest pair of skis. They are turnier than I've had before AND I've changed my side edge bevel to 3°. But that was just this year and it started with the ski. I always worried before that 1) my ski wasn't going to "come around" in time or 2) hold on to the hill when it did. Both pieces working have made me much more confident and stuff that used to terrify me I go down eagerly.

Absolutely this!! The 'turny' factor makes such a difference, along with faith in the edge grip. I've found myself enjoying the ride rather than panicking inwardly about hitting ice and sliding to the bottom.
 

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