Robyn
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
And even he has rescinded that first impression from 1995. https://www.billkerig.com/images/pdfs/ski_nov98_shape.pdf
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Women's Skis
- Thread starter tamlyn
- Start date
And even he has rescinded that first impression from 1995. https://www.billkerig.com/images/pdfs/ski_nov98_shape.pdf
mollmeister
Angel Diva
The *new skis aren't the same in the moguls, for sure. Definitely a different feel. And they certainly aren't what pros use for competition-level, straight-line bumps. There is a small market of specialty skis for that.
That said, unless you're zipper-lining all day long, the new skis aren't going to ruin moguls for you. . .
For example:
The instructor my Dad likes to ski with has been skiing for I don't know how many years and teaching for at least 20 years (he's in his mid-60s). He skis a shaped, modern, non-mogul K2 ski for instructing, and he is, even in his 60s, one of the most beautiful, natural, quick-on-his-feet mogul skiers I have ever seen. His son is one of the freestyle coaches in Vail and used to ski competitive bumps. He is also a GORGEOUS mogul skier, on Scott skis these days, I think.
. . . And come to think of it, a bumper friend of mine (who went to Wayne Wong bump clinics in the 80s, lol) *thought* he didn't like the *new* skis for bumps a few years back (after trading in his straight 205s) and bought a specialty mogul ski that he ultimately decided he hated. He's back on the *new technology* and after a half-season of skiing the bumps on these skis, he was skiing them as beautifully as ever.
So while the competition zipper-line mogul skiers want their specialty bump skis, strong, elegant skiers can ski them beautifully on almost any boards, IMO.
I'm sorry if I offended you by suggesting that we do not know as much as a ski pro because I was going off of what you stated. Many of us are here to enjoy the sport and not compete.
SnowHot
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Jonny Moseley Rawks!!!
I know I've heard him say, at one point that "some" modern skis were not good for moguls, but he did not make a statement that NO modern skis were go for moguls. More recently he has made comments about how the current technology in skis has really helped the new generation of competitors sky rocket to the top with better technique.
While at the Diva weekend at Abasin last year, we had a chance to spend some time with Michelle Roark and Patrick Denean. Both of whom are on the USST.
They had a LOT to say about the contemporary advances in skis and the amazing things that they can do in moguls due to the advancement in skis and ski gear.
Here is a candid picture from the day
left to right
Me, Michelle, Volklgirl, Severine, lilabear, pinto.
There are more pics of the day somewhere.
Here is patrick signing his autograph for some young bumpers.
Here is Patrick showing a bit of why he was 2007 WC rookie of the year
Pictures are owned by Bob Barnes and are copyrighted. Please do not duplicate.
I know I've heard him say, at one point that "some" modern skis were not good for moguls, but he did not make a statement that NO modern skis were go for moguls. More recently he has made comments about how the current technology in skis has really helped the new generation of competitors sky rocket to the top with better technique.
While at the Diva weekend at Abasin last year, we had a chance to spend some time with Michelle Roark and Patrick Denean. Both of whom are on the USST.
They had a LOT to say about the contemporary advances in skis and the amazing things that they can do in moguls due to the advancement in skis and ski gear.
Here is a candid picture from the day
left to right
Me, Michelle, Volklgirl, Severine, lilabear, pinto.
There are more pics of the day somewhere.
Here is patrick signing his autograph for some young bumpers.
Here is Patrick showing a bit of why he was 2007 WC rookie of the year
Pictures are owned by Bob Barnes and are copyrighted. Please do not duplicate.
Robyn
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Those are the F17s which have been mentioned in this thread.
The guys at levelnine are great, but I don't think any of them are bump skiers. I would totally take their advice on powder skis, but I'm sure they're just going off of what they've read/heard on bump skis.
I would assume that a "bump ski" is going to be best for bumps, but unless you're really obsessed with bumps or want to compete, I'd just select something that doesn't totally suck in them. Most all mountain skis can ski bumps acceptably (or better). Your best bet is to demo a couple skis that you narrow it down to and then try them in the bumps.
Demoing doesn't have to take a long time. Last time I was debating between skis, I went up and did it all in one day - I think I demoed 6 pairs of skis. Any on mountain shop will let you trade them out all day long, so just go and take 1-2 runs on each pair and take notes. I think this is far more effective than spreading it out over a longer time period, as it's hard to factor in variations in the snow and things can be different day to day. I would take each pair of skis up to the top, ski some moderate bumps down to a fast groomer to see how they carved, over into some trees, and down an icier/steeper groomer to see how they held an edge. If I hated them at that point, they went back and I got another pair. If I liked them, I'd take them on a second run and hit a few more things. After the second run, I'd take them back, get something else, and write down my notes on how they performed in each area.
People do their best when reviewing skis, but there is still nothing like actually trying them out to know what's best for you. There have been skis that I thought I SHOULD like, that I really wanted to like... that just felt horrible on my feet.
I would assume that a "bump ski" is going to be best for bumps, but unless you're really obsessed with bumps or want to compete, I'd just select something that doesn't totally suck in them. Most all mountain skis can ski bumps acceptably (or better). Your best bet is to demo a couple skis that you narrow it down to and then try them in the bumps.
Demoing doesn't have to take a long time. Last time I was debating between skis, I went up and did it all in one day - I think I demoed 6 pairs of skis. Any on mountain shop will let you trade them out all day long, so just go and take 1-2 runs on each pair and take notes. I think this is far more effective than spreading it out over a longer time period, as it's hard to factor in variations in the snow and things can be different day to day. I would take each pair of skis up to the top, ski some moderate bumps down to a fast groomer to see how they carved, over into some trees, and down an icier/steeper groomer to see how they held an edge. If I hated them at that point, they went back and I got another pair. If I liked them, I'd take them on a second run and hit a few more things. After the second run, I'd take them back, get something else, and write down my notes on how they performed in each area.
People do their best when reviewing skis, but there is still nothing like actually trying them out to know what's best for you. There have been skis that I thought I SHOULD like, that I really wanted to like... that just felt horrible on my feet.
Gloria
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Where the lines are getting blurred here ( no pun intended ) is that there is a significant difference between a carving ski and a mogul ski. Yes, there is less side-cut to a mogul specific ski because they are not intended to carve like a race ski would. To ski the zipper line, you really need to not carve the ski as you would on a race course. You actually use the running length combined with downward pressure in the trough to control speed in the turns. Soooo, trying to find a super stiff ski is going to limit what you can do with the ski in the bumps as well. That being said, there are alot of skis that can do both for a recreational skier but really if you are looking for a top performer in each category, you are probably really looking for two pairs of skis. How do you ski the bumps? If you rise to the top and pivot and come down the backside, a carving ski may work great for you. If you ski down the zipper and use flexion and extension, and this is something you really want to work on, then you probably want a softer flexing ski with less side cut that is a little narrower underfoot. Can you use a softer flexing ski mountainwide as a good skier? Yes, personally I have found that now that I have learned to ski the zipperline, a softer flexing ski has benefited me greatly mountain wide. I still ski my super stiff skis when it's super icy and I need that edge, but I am finding the verstility the softer ski combined with the new skills I have added have opened up alot of opportunity for me and I really enjoy ripping it up on the more malleable ski.
volklgirl
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Are they P60s or Racetigers? The P60s were 2005 and earlier, the Racetigers are 2006 and later. Exactly the same ski construction-wise and dimensions until you get to 2007/2008 when they went to the >27m for 180cm and up. I have the 2006 and 2007 Racetiger WC GS race stock (>21m), 180cm.
In that case, the Aurora is going to feel A LOT different.
I'm a bump lover, but need something that will perform in all Eastern conditions (not a quiver gal...although I'm thinking of twin tips for powder). I've got volkl AC30s (unisex)...prior to that I had Super Sports - which were just a bit too tough to zipper in bumps. The AC30s has the volkl-ness I love, but a little pop to get me through bumps easier.
The skis you own are not designed for quick turns - I don't know mechanics/tech specs, but I do know a GS ski is not good in moguls (my DH has had GS type skis at times and bitches about them in moguls lol). There are definately skis that will get you all over the mountain and then in bumps. If I had a bump ski, I could count on one hand the # of days I could use it here,. Monday was a nice bump day on some runs here (manmade snow)...I was zipping down some bumps quite nicely (will say so myself) and I ended up catching some ice when turning my right ski - tail end caught some hard ice and for the first time ever I lost an edge on a volkl ski (which I realized earlier in the day were dull as can be), did some fancy ballet moves to try to recover and ended up falling back and landing on the back of my head (helmet saved me a concussion I believe). I think if I skied a bump ski most of the time, stuff like this would happen more often, as it's a rare day in ME when you don't find ice/crud somewhere (even on the powder day with 18" of snow there was still ice that can't hold fresh snow).
The skis you own are not designed for quick turns - I don't know mechanics/tech specs, but I do know a GS ski is not good in moguls (my DH has had GS type skis at times and bitches about them in moguls lol). There are definately skis that will get you all over the mountain and then in bumps. If I had a bump ski, I could count on one hand the # of days I could use it here,. Monday was a nice bump day on some runs here (manmade snow)...I was zipping down some bumps quite nicely (will say so myself) and I ended up catching some ice when turning my right ski - tail end caught some hard ice and for the first time ever I lost an edge on a volkl ski (which I realized earlier in the day were dull as can be), did some fancy ballet moves to try to recover and ended up falling back and landing on the back of my head (helmet saved me a concussion I believe). I think if I skied a bump ski most of the time, stuff like this would happen more often, as it's a rare day in ME when you don't find ice/crud somewhere (even on the powder day with 18" of snow there was still ice that can't hold fresh snow).
Robyn;
Yes I see , but then he didn't actually rescind the statement without qualification.
He pointed out both advantages and disadvantages. What I don't want in a ski is a wide middle. A wider tip and tail ...OK but I would like to keep the middle around the mid 60's for a quicker edge change. This is one of the things he did mention in he last paragraph of he article you sent me the URL for. Another consideration for me is I am going to be skiing on ice (moguls or otherwise) 80% of the time and while wide skis have an obvious advantage in powder or packed powder, on ice you really don't need the floatation.
Having said that it looks like he Line Celebrity skis are still up for my consideration. The Head Super moguls are 89 60 80 so I may also eliminate them since that is not going to help me get used to the newer skis. The more I read I am now leaning towards the Roxy Helter Skelter. Both of these are 90 in the center but that seems to be a little wide to me, another one is the Dynastar Legend 8000. The side cut is 116-80-102mm, but they are supposed to be a bit on the soft side (not a good thing on boilerplate). The Roxy Joyrider now has some impressive specs 124 76 104 and stiff with a slalom type turning radius. The Volkl Aura, as popular as it is here is a fatty and that is something I definitely don't want in the east. The K2 Missdemeanor sounds good, but I have had 3 pair of K2 skis and hated every one of them except the 710 slalom and they were race stock, even then they were not my favorite skis. My favorite skis in the 50 years I have been skiing were Rossi ST Comps in 203s. I won more slalom medals on them than any other ski I owned, they were fun to free ski and were a blast in moguls, maybe that helps to understand what I look for in a ski. I don't like my skis to be too damp, I like to FEEL the feedback I get when the snow changes, so if anyone knows of a ski that has that characteristic it would have a huge impact on my decision. The Roxy Joyrider is also a strong contender 126 74 105 really appeals to me! As does the Roxy Tease Me 114 74 104 both of these have the narrow waist that will facilitate a quick edge change and lastly the Salomon XW Fury Skis 128-86-112(184 length). Of course I will demo any I have the chance to. I would be interested in anyones opinion given the guidlines I want to stick to. Narrow waist for quick edge change, long and stiff for hold on ice, powder is not a concern, not too damp, fast but not to bomb the hill, more for quick turns, and fun in moguls. Oh and pretty if possible but not a deal breaker maybe a tie breaker.
Cheers
Tami (gravity girl)
Yes I see , but then he didn't actually rescind the statement without qualification.
He pointed out both advantages and disadvantages. What I don't want in a ski is a wide middle. A wider tip and tail ...OK but I would like to keep the middle around the mid 60's for a quicker edge change. This is one of the things he did mention in he last paragraph of he article you sent me the URL for. Another consideration for me is I am going to be skiing on ice (moguls or otherwise) 80% of the time and while wide skis have an obvious advantage in powder or packed powder, on ice you really don't need the floatation.
Having said that it looks like he Line Celebrity skis are still up for my consideration. The Head Super moguls are 89 60 80 so I may also eliminate them since that is not going to help me get used to the newer skis. The more I read I am now leaning towards the Roxy Helter Skelter. Both of these are 90 in the center but that seems to be a little wide to me, another one is the Dynastar Legend 8000. The side cut is 116-80-102mm, but they are supposed to be a bit on the soft side (not a good thing on boilerplate). The Roxy Joyrider now has some impressive specs 124 76 104 and stiff with a slalom type turning radius. The Volkl Aura, as popular as it is here is a fatty and that is something I definitely don't want in the east. The K2 Missdemeanor sounds good, but I have had 3 pair of K2 skis and hated every one of them except the 710 slalom and they were race stock, even then they were not my favorite skis. My favorite skis in the 50 years I have been skiing were Rossi ST Comps in 203s. I won more slalom medals on them than any other ski I owned, they were fun to free ski and were a blast in moguls, maybe that helps to understand what I look for in a ski. I don't like my skis to be too damp, I like to FEEL the feedback I get when the snow changes, so if anyone knows of a ski that has that characteristic it would have a huge impact on my decision. The Roxy Joyrider is also a strong contender 126 74 105 really appeals to me! As does the Roxy Tease Me 114 74 104 both of these have the narrow waist that will facilitate a quick edge change and lastly the Salomon XW Fury Skis 128-86-112(184 length). Of course I will demo any I have the chance to. I would be interested in anyones opinion given the guidlines I want to stick to. Narrow waist for quick edge change, long and stiff for hold on ice, powder is not a concern, not too damp, fast but not to bomb the hill, more for quick turns, and fun in moguls. Oh and pretty if possible but not a deal breaker maybe a tie breaker.
Cheers
Tami (gravity girl)
Volkl Girl:
Actually they are 2005 P60's, he sold them to me as Racetigers and I never noticed until you posted this. He did disclose it but I didn't pay much attention since he said they were the same except for cosmetics. Mine are 175's. Thanks for the heads up! :D
Cheers
Tami (gravity girl)
ski now work later
Angel Diva
You've been skiing for 50 years! Dang, I am
I started skiing in 2005, at age 45, hey, maybe I'll still be skiing at 95!
