when to bump up the DIN?

[Serafina]

I knew that it was time to move from DIN settings for a level 1 skier when my skis started falling off when I executed a tight turn.

Now I am skiing more intense blues and starting to get onto the blacks. And the conditions are thickening up and I am driving my skis, skiing more aggressively, as a result (this at the suggestion of my ski instructor, and it's been working).

It was bad enough when my bindings released prematurely when I was going at a relatively slow speed on a green slope.

It would be catastrophic if they did this while I was doing a string of fast short radius turns down a steep slope on fast snow.

I don't think it's a good idea to wait until I am overskiing my bindings, but I'm not sure at what point it will be a good idea to have my ski guys crank the DIN up.

 

[MaineSkiLady]

Go to this site:
https://www.dinsetting.com/ and plug in honest answers, put in Type 2 for skier type and see where that all comes out. It's pretty dead-on. Then check your current settings to see where they are currently set.

 

[Serafina]

Go to this site:
https://www.dinsetting.com/ and plug in honest answers, put in Type 2 for skier type and see where that all comes out. It's pretty dead-on. Then check your current settings to see where they are currently set.

The current setting is a 6. If I put in type 3 skier, it suggests an 8.

How aggressively does one have to ski before getting premature binding release at the "type 2" DIN settings (assuming these are correct for the skier)? It hasn't happened yet to me, but I don't know how much head-room I am likely to have before it becomes a problem. I don't really pound down the slopes, I don't race, I don't do bumps, but I do like to use lots of tight snappy short turns, and I am starting to get onto the blacks.

I want to do this before it is strictly necessary, but I'm not really sure what the potential costs are to doing it earlier than strictly necessary. (Not monetary costs, I know this is a minor adjustment for the ski guys, but other performance or risk costs I don't know about yet)

 

[MaineSkiLady]

Just for comparative purposes, I indicate "type III" for binding mount, but I am skiing double-blacks and bumps (moderate>not huge). At Sugarloaf. But I'm a lightweight, so I request a higher DIN. You could probably go up to 7 safely, but I'm not sure of your stats, 8 might be pushing it. Fine line between premature release and not releasing at all. At this point, you want some insurance that you will release, when/if necessary.

DH and I often switch out skis, which we can do as we have the same BSL. But he has to crank the bindings down when he uses something of mine. (He does this with a Swiss army knife, just did it last Thurs). When I ski his, I generally behave myself, as I would never release at his setting. We are also plagued and perplexed by the "Magic Age" number that's standard shop fare. So all our bindings are set "per customer request."

 

[ski now work later]

From what you have described about your skiing and experience, you are a type II skier. Type III is a setting for advanced and expert skiers, skiing steep terrain, deep moguls, and other situation where pre-release can be downright dangerous.

I have been skiing with a 5.5 DIN for several years and I'm a confident intermediate skier, still learning my way around bumps and varied terrain. I'm just under 5'7" 145-50 lbs., age 51. That DIN setting is perfect for me, I rarely release but when I have, I've needed to. Serafina, you might want to swing by Competitive Edge in Holyoke or Equipe Sport in Dover or Northern Ski Works in Ludlow and get your bindings checked....

 

[mtngirl]

Its not TERRIBLE if you prerelease as long as the snow is soft and you arent in a no fall zone.. :ROTF:

Mine are set at 7, and I am a pretty aggressive skier, skiing blacks and double blacks, bumps, crud, etc.. I weigh 150 lbs, but I am only 5'3''... I wouldnt go over the chart settings unless you are prereleasing, and have your bindings checked out if that happens... so I second Maineskilady's advice to check the chart..

 

[Blue Diamond]

It was bad enough when my bindings released prematurely when I was going at a relatively slow speed on a green slope.

I don't think your bindings should be pre-releasing in these circumstances on a setting of 6. It sounds wrong! I would have them checked out before skiing again.

From what you ski, mostly blue runs and just starting to do some blacks ones, you are not a type III yet. Type III is pretty much advanced/expert (double blacks, deep moguls, etc).

I would not go beyond 6 if I were you. I am at 5.5 (like SNWL), I'm 5'4", 120 lbs., age 38, and I ski all the blue ones very confidently and some black ones (not so confidently) at Alpine and Squaw.

Having your bindings not release can injure your knee very badly. I am currently recovering from surgery because my tibial plateau "released" before my binding did. It was bad! (my bindings were set up correctly, it was an awkward fall).

 

[litterbug]

What are the costs if you raise your DIN when it's "not strictly necessary"? You've heard and read enough, I'm sure, to know the costs of failing to release--broken femurs, tib-fib factures, torn cartilage and ligaments in your knees.

So, I'm not sure which seems more catastrophic to you--blowing out ligaments and losing the entire season and half of the next, or progressing in a way that allows you to move ahead safely. Orthopedic injuries and surgeries are painful and disabling; I hope never to need the latter again.

Just be straight with yourself. There's a fine line between enthusiasm and recklessness, and I recommend the former.

 

[mountainxtc]

The current setting is a 6. If I put in type 3 skier, it suggests an 8.

How aggressively does one have to ski before getting premature binding release at the "type 2" DIN settings (assuming these are correct for the skier)? It hasn't happened yet to me, but I don't know how much head-room I am likely to have before it becomes a problem. I don't really pound down the slopes, I don't race, I don't do bumps, but I do like to use lots of tight snappy short turns, and I am starting to get onto the blacks.

I want to do this before it is strictly necessary, but I'm not really sure what the potential costs are to doing it earlier than strictly necessary. (Not monetary costs, I know this is a minor adjustment for the ski guys, but other performance or risk costs I don't know about yet)

You know how you said in your first post that you knew it was time? You will know again. But. As a guide. A type I is a beginner. A type III is an expert. Everyone else is type II.

When you are skiing in situations that cause you to worry about pre-releasing (i.e. super fast or super steep or super gnarly bumps) then think about turning up your DIN. Until then, if you are pre-releasing and your DIN looks to be set at the correct number for you as a type II, get your forward pressure checked.

 

[Serafina]

I'm a Type 2 skier now, but I didn't know at what point a person crosses over that line.

My bindings are not prematurely releasing now - I didn't stay at a Level 1 for very long, and I was having problems with early release then. I haven't had any problems at all with them releasing inappropriately since they got set up for a Type 2 skier, but I've also really made substantial progress in where I'm going, how I'm doing that, and what I expect my skis to do for me. What prompted this post was that I realized that at some point I would probably start over-skiing the bindings again and that I didn't know how much more I can request from the current setup before it demonstrates that the present settings are inadequate (hence, my question about at what point the DIN usually needs to get bumped up).

The chart setting for my height/weight/boot at Type 2 is between 6 and 7. I'm an Amazon. I am 5'10" and 190lbs, skiing on a DIN 6 and starting to get into black groomers (and also discovering that I need to drive my skis harder to contend with the variable conditions we're seeing lately).

I am not skiing recklessly. I am extremely careful to ski within my comfort zone, and if I feel that I might be getting into a place where I could not dump all of my speed quickly on short notice, I put the brakes on. But I also do not have a mellow casual big-wide looping carving style, and I am working on cranking up the amount of speed I feel comfortable carrying and at the same time, the amount of control I exercise over the skis.

I have also had major injuries from bindings that did not release...I am VERY well aware of those problems...but the injuries I had came from bindings that were correctly set - I just fell in a weird way. So, yes, if they bindings don't blow when they need to, it's a problem...but I can also see it being a big problem if they blow when they shouldn't.

 

[litterbug]

Not sure how relevant this is, but I've watched almost every World Cup race this season. I've seen 3-4 pre-releases, and the skiers have all walked away, whereas there was some serious pain and a few helicopter rides when the bindings held.

Sounds like you're getting some expert advice, though. Just call us over-protective of a friend.

 

[Serafina]

Oh, I'm not in a blazing hurry to crank these things up...and I know that the Ski Divas dish out terrific information and advise. Best possible place to come for anything that doesn't require in-person, hands-on assistance!

I was watching the world cup racing, too, and was mightily heartened by the observations of the commentators as they explained the wipe-outs...first, because the wipe-outs for the pros were being caused by the same things that cause my wipe-outs (i.e., putting weight into backseat, catching an edge, not keeping hands forward), second, because the pros - as amazing as they are - still screw that stuff up from time to time.

Nothing like watching Julia Mancuso rear up and lean back and wipe out to make me feel better about myself when I do it too.

 

[litterbug]

I've learned a ton from watching WC races. Right now I'm trying to stay detached from the pure carved turn because I'm still getting balanced and strong enough to control my speed while doing it (I can slow down with a smeared turn, to some degree, but still). Not sitting back, changing the amount of weight on the inside ski depending on different variables, engaging the tips, even trying to learn how to let the skis run without that dreaded edge-catch.

I'm still worried about Svindal, who crashed after the finish line because the run-out was too short to stop before reaching the barriers!! Heard anything about him?

 

[snow addict]

I am 112# and looks like the shop put me as Type III - I am not super aggressive and not an expert, but I try to ski mostly steep terrain and deep moguls (and after 6 weeks without new snow they ARE deep). Here they use the term "good skier" when they ask about the stats to set the DIN. Bit confusing, so I told them I was average, not aggressive, but said where I skied so they set it as they saw appropriate. My bindings are set at 6.5. The chart above shows 6 so seems pretty accurate. When it was needed they released otherwise my skis are staying put. 6-7 will probably work well for you and you don't need to change it for a higher setting unless you change the terrain where you may release not from a fall, but from an impact.

 

[snow addict]

Oh, I'm not in a blazing hurry to crank these things up...and I know that the Ski Divas dish out terrific information and advise. Best possible place to come for anything that doesn't require in-person, hands-on assistance!

I was watching the world cup racing, too, and was mightily heartened by the observations of the commentators as they explained the wipe-outs...first, because the wipe-outs for the pros were being caused by the same things that cause my wipe-outs (i.e., putting weight into backseat, catching an edge, not keeping hands forward), second, because the pros - as amazing as they are - still screw that stuff up from time to time.

Nothing like watching Julia Mancuso rear up and lean back and wipe out to make me feel better about myself when I do it too.

They experience quite higher g-forces than us, so it's quite understandable that they screw up. There are probably more 'screw- ups' then wipe-outs as they manage to recover control more often than not even at these speeds. I was watching freeride and then commentary when parts of the performance of a particular skier were taken out, shown in slow motion and analysed, so it was visible when control was lost and skier was taken for a ride and when it was regained.

But I remember you saying you were not interested in off-piste and moguls, and if you are not zooming fast black trails at mach speeds Type II settings will serve your needs. I changed mine from Type II I had all the time in January on a shop advice. I had boots with shorter bsl so had to adjust the bindings and they told me to change the DIN to a higher one too. I was a bit reluctant as I am always worried about the ski not releasing in a fall, my friend damaged her ACL and meniscus because her skis didn't release, and I damaged mine ages ago and they were never surgically repaired so in my mind I always consider myself a bit challenged in this department, more injury prone and want to avoid this. but shop explained that there are higher impact forces acting on a binding and on our popular bump field losing a ski can be very tricky, even if the fall itself is nothing for a skier. can be a very long 'walk' down though I am not sure "walk" is the right term - I haven't worked out the logistics of it in case it happens;). So I've changed to Type III and it seems to work for me. I had a wipe out on a black groomer and binding released, though it was so spectacular it would've probably released even on a higher setting. And overall I don't fall very often, until this season hadn't fallen for two and I had been skiing black groomers for couple of years then. So I suppose I should appreciate the extra support and protection from being ejected that higher setting gives me if this is true. And for you Type II should work well and you shouldn't ski out of it. For bumps you may need higher if you decide to go this way. But on groomers I don't think you'll want a higher DIN. Without the off-setting benefits you don't want to lose the security of bindings releasing when needed. And on groomers, when most impacts occur it is when you actually want and need the bindings to release. Even at low speeds the torque can be sufficient for the ACL.

 

[lynseyf]

You know how you said in your first post that you knew it was time? You will know again. But. As a guide. A type I is a beginner. A type III is an expert. Everyone else is type II.

When you are skiing in situations that cause you to worry about pre-releasing (i.e. super fast or super steep or super gnarly bumps) then think about turning up your DIN. Until then, if you are pre-releasing and your DIN looks to be set at the correct number for you as a type II, get your forward pressure checked.

This, I am your height and weight and have been skiing for 7 years, around 200 days. I have had my DIN settings at 6 or 6.5 for 5 of those years. I ski blacks ( with good technique unless it's icy ) and off-piste and my skis only come off when I fall. It's actually pretty rare to hurt yourself when you fall so I wouldn't worry about pre-releasing. People that are scared of pre-releases tend to ski no fall zones, ie. if they fall they will slide off a 20ft cliff or into a huge band of rocks and seriously hurt themselves, I don't think most people who ski on piste worry too much about pre-releases.

However I did buy a pair of skis with some Marker M11 bindings which I literally kept stepping out of. These were the only skis I have had this problem with so I was loathe to put up my DIN, in the end I sold the skis anyway and am now skiing Marker schizos with a DIN of 6.5 quiet happily, I would avoid the M11 bindings rather than see this as a reason to crank my DIN up.

 

[Witchery]

I had a go at the website suggested for correct DIN settings and was way off. Mine are set on 3.5-4, they have never released early only when absolutely needed. I'm a fairly aggressive skiier, skiing black and double blacks. I keep up with my husband so i'm not too slow either. I have always had my DIN setting at 3.5-4 as I have two injured knees and don't want them hurt when i'm skiing so I opt for release rather than retention.

Not sure what i'm doing that makes my ski's stay on??

 

[mountainxtc]

Not sure what i'm doing that makes my ski's stay on??

Probably staying in balance!! But seriously, if you're skiing double blacks at Whistler, please turn your DIN up to 5. Knee injuries or not, that's dangerous.

 

[skidaup]

I went from 6 to 6.5 and haven't had any more problems, we are about the same. I feel better too and I know they still will come of when they need to.

 

[Witchery]

I'll probably step my bindings up with my new skis as they are longer and will probably release earlier with the extra leverage. My instructor did say I was very balanced, probably due to skiing blades for a few years...interesting though!