Vail: How it's changed skiing and where it might be going.

[Christy]

Have any of you heard how Vail is reducing hours or days at a number of resorts they've acquired?

From the latest posting in the Storm Skiing Journal:

At least five Vail resorts announced curtailed operating plans in the past weeks. New Hampshire’s Crotched, a sort-of party resort that has historically stayed open until 3 a.m. on select weekend nights, will contract its schedule to five days per week and shutter night skiing by 9 p.m. Snow Valley, Missouri, announced that it would only operate Fridays through Sundays. Unlike New Hampshire skiers, who have several other Vail options within driving distance, Snow Creek is 274 miles from the nearest Vail-owned ski area – Hidden Valley, on the other side of the state. The closest competition is Mount Crescent, Iowa, 165 miles to the north. The ski area will only offer night skiing on Fridays. Hidden Valley in Missouri and Mad River and Boston Mills in Ohio will all open this weekend with reduced hours for the season.

Oh, there are so many good quotes in this article. Vail's Waterloo!

And then, of course, there’s Stevens Pass, the beloved Washington State beauty humping off the top of the Cascades. Vail’s Waterloo.

This isn’t the Irish Famine, so stop paying employees in onions and potatoes

Raise pay, mix in some MTN stock, offer family Epic Passes. Then throw in a free puma and a ride on Rob Katz’s jet. I don’t know – the answer is out there, buried in 170 inches of snow. Figure it out.

And at least throw a steak in with the potatoes next time.

**
I hope patrons of the other areas with cutbacks are inspired by what's going on at Stevens, and file complaints with their AG's office, and if the ski area is on public lands, take it up with the land management agency too.

 

[Iwannaski]

I cannot - emphasis: CANNOT - believe they actually “paid” people in food and are shocked they have a staffing problem.

Yes, it’s seasonal work and the mountain didn’t open. BUT. If people are a critical asset to your operation, you better ensure that you are investing in their retention, otherwise, you might (*cough*WILL*cough*) not be able to retain the employees you need.

 

[teleskichica]

Does anyone know if these various locations are leased public lands, private lands now owned by Vail Resorts or some other situation?

So many many many thoughts about the employee issues that I am restraining from saying but it's probably already fairly obvious in my short time here how I feel about exploiting human labor for (gross) profits.

 

[marzNC]

Does anyone know if these various locations are leased public lands, private lands now owned by Vail Resorts or some other situation?

At this point VR is dealing with a variety situations when it comes to public and private land. A few locations are publicly owned but VR is the operator. Mount Sunapee in New Hampshire was part of the Triple Peaks deal that included Okemo and Crested Butte. In PA, pretty sure all the land is private. Same for Hunter in the NY Catskills. Not sure about Wildcat and Attitash in New Hampshire. Pretty sure Stowe is a mix. AIG kept the private land with the luxury slopeside lodging.

I discovered that two of the midwest ski areas that Peak Resorts had are in an Ohio state park. In general, you don't hear much about the midwest "urban" ski areas that Peak had acquired in the years before VR decided to make the Boyd family an offer they couldn't refuse.

 

[newboots]

Okemo is partly on state forest lands. I don't know about the others, but I wouldn't be surprised.

 

[newboots]

Another article:

Too Big to Vail: The Downfall of the North American Mega Resort | The Inertia

Locals at Vail Resorts-run mountains like Stevens Pass and Whistler are starting to say, "enough is enough," pushing back against lift lines and low wages.

www.theinertia.com

 

[KWlovessnow]

I'm in the Detroit Metro area and Mt. Brighton is owned by Vail. Currently it is still only 48 percent open and they cut their weekday hours. They used to run from 9am-9pm and now only run from 1pm-9pm. All the other hills around us are 100 percent open with their normal operating hours. I have bought Epic passes for the past few years since we can use them close to home as well as on our trip out West but I really think we will change to IKON in the future. It's not worth it any more. We have been buying day passes at the local hills because the skiing experience is so much better, and still have not skied Mt. Brighton. Makes the Epic pass no longer worth it.

 

[Christy]

I'm in the Detroit Metro area and Mt. Brighton is owned by Vail. Currently it is still only 48 percent open and they cut their weekday hours. They used to run from 9am-9pm and now only run from 1pm-9pm. All the other hills around us are 100 percent open with their normal operating hours. I have bought Epic passes for the past few years since we can use them close to home as well as on our trip out West but I really think we will change to IKON in the future. It's not worth it any more. We have been buying day passes at the local hills because the skiing experience is so much better, and still have not skied Mt. Brighton. Makes the Epic pass no longer worth it.

Is there any movement by passholders to ask for 52% of the pass price back? Can't hurt to ask.

 

[Iwannaski]

@KWlovessnow … there is an Epic hilll about 45 min from us, and then the hill we go to. I regularly ride the lift with people who live near me who are Epic pass holders who get the pass for their Colorado ski vacation, but pay to come to our hill instead of skiing the local pass hill.

I’m really not sure what their strategy is. I see businesses make counterintuitive decisions all the time, and I’ve learned to figure out why/how by ignoring what my logic would be. BUT STILL? This isn’t sustainable. Unless the goal is to kill everyone BUT the Colorado resorts and drive traffic west because the other regions become unsuitable for skiing?

 

[newboots]

Is there any movement by passholders to ask for 52% of the pass price back? Can't hurt to ask.

OR, start a petition, like the angry passholders at Stevens Pass did. And ditto for Wildcat and Attitash skiers. Put pressure on them; they are wrecking skiing!

 

[teleskichica]

’m really not sure what their strategy is. I see businesses make counterintuitive decisions all the time, and I’ve learned to figure out why/how by ignoring what my logic would be. BUT STILL? This isn’t sustainable. Unless the goal is to kill everyone BUT the Colorado resorts and drive traffic west because the other regions become unsuitable for skiing?

Maybe a long stretch but I wonder if it is similar to hospitals or grocery stores in rural places being bought up, limped along a bit, and then shut down because they aren't profitable to run. The ownership brings equity to their books, there is usually some kind of inflow of cash - like the many, many pass buyers, and the huge increase in stock value, and the equity - and then once eviscerated they are shed. Meanwhile the bigger resorts become more and more inaccessible or cater to a specifically profitable crowd. It's like cutting ICU beds and ERs while opening elective surgery centers (a tactic that was working brilliantly until Covid)...

Tangent but I'm beginging to wonder if this is applicable: Grocery stores aren't big money makers unless they are Whole Foods or New Seasons but the buildings/land are worth something. We have a grocery store here in Tacoma that was bought and then immediately closed for the last decade because it was cheaper to make property payments and wait for the appreciation in value of the property than run the store in a poor neighborhood. It wasn't even "worth it" to the mega parent company to lease the building to another entity so someone else could use it. So it sits (as assets/equity on their books) waiting for the neighborhood to further gentrify or??

I wonder...

At this point VR is dealing with a variety situations when it comes to public and private land. A few locations are publicly owned but VR is the operator. Mount Sunapee in New Hampshire was part of the Triple Peaks deal that included Okemo and Crested Butte. In PA, pretty sure all the land is private. Same for Hunter in the NY Catskills. Not sure about Wildcat and Attitash in New Hampshire. Pretty sure Stowe is a mix. AIG kept the private land with the luxury slopeside lodging.

I discovered that two of the midwest ski areas that Peak Resorts had are in an Ohio state park. In general, you don't hear much about the midwest "urban" ski areas that Peak had acquired in the years before VR decided to make the Boyd family an offer they couldn't refuse.

Thanks.

 

[tinymoose]

I discovered that two of the midwest ski areas that Peak Resorts had are in an Ohio state park. In general, you don't hear much about the midwest "urban" ski areas that Peak had acquired in the years before VR decided to make the Boyd family an offer they couldn't refuse.

It looks like Boston Mills/Brandywine is in a National Park? I'm not sure about Alpine Valley, but I'm assuming it's the other one you're referring to b/c I don't think Mad River Mountain is. Mad River Mountain is near where I grew up, and I've been there a handful of times as a kid and a couple times more recently as an adult.

I'm disappointed to see the reduced hours for Mad River. It's really one of the very few options in the state, especially on the western side of the state. Most everything else is up in that northeast quadrant.

 

[marzNC]

It looks like Boston Mills/Brandywine is in a National Park? I'm not sure about Alpine Valley, but I'm assuming it's the other one you're referring to b/c I don't think Mad River Mountain is. Mad River Mountain is near where I grew up, and I've been there a handful of times as a kid and a couple times more recently as an adult.

I'm disappointed to see the reduced hours for Mad River. It's really one of the very few options in the state, especially on the western side of the state. Most everything else is up in that northeast quadrant.

Boston Mills is where I stopped for a look on my way from Cleveland to NC. You're right . . . National Park, not state park. Looked "old school" but the looks that the few guys gave me as I walked around weren't that friendly. Not the same feel as I've had doing the same at independent small hills in the east.

Ohio was very warm in December so they were just starting on snowmaking. Apparently opening up today, Jan. 7. Completely missed the holiday period.

 

[marzNC]

Here's Mike Goar's attempt to do damage control for how the holiday period went at Park City. KPCW is a local radio station in Park City. The interviewer seems to be very well known.

January 6, 2022

Park City Mountain COO Mike Goar - January 6, 2022

Park City Mountain COO Mike Goar explains the challenges the resort has faced over the busy holiday weekend and the outlook for getting the mountain and restaurants open.

www.kpcw.org

Goar was VP for the Tahoe region and in charge of Heavenly starting in 2017. He moved over to Park City in 2019. He worked at Canyons when it wasn't part of VR's Park City. For the transition after VR took over both Park City and Canyons. Bill Rock got to deal with that "merger" back in 2015. Rock joined VR from Snowshoe, starting at Northstar, then PC, and is now an exec in Broomfield. I was tracking GM/COO changes for VR for a few years.

 

[skinnyfootskis]

Boston Mills is where I stopped for a look on my way from Cleveland to NC. You're right . . . National Park, not state park. Looked "old school" but the looks that the few guys gave me as I walked around weren't that friendly. Not the same feel as I've had doing the same at independent small hills in the east.

Ohio was very warm in December so they were just starting on snowmaking. Apparently opening up today, Jan. 7. Completely missed the holiday period.

View attachment 17370View attachment 17371

I grew up skiing at Brandywine and Snow trails in Mansfield!!! From the top straight down....

 

[Iwannaski]

So, the GM of Attitash is leaving. Did y’all see that?

 

[marzNC]

So, the GM of Attitash is leaving. Did y’all see that?

Moving on within VR, or just being replaced? You mean Greg Gavrilets?

December 8, 2021

Days Tech - 재테크, 경제, 생활정보, 돈, 게임 정보

재테크, 경제, 생활정보, 돈, 게임 정보

daystech.org

October 2020

Greg Gavrilets Named Attitash GM - Ski Area Management

SAM Magazine—Bartlett, N.H., Oct. 29, 2020—Tennessee native Greg Gavrilets is the new general manager of Attitash in New Hampshire. He succeeds longtime Attitash leader John Lowell, who is retiring from his role as vice president and general manager of Attitash and nearby Wildcat effective Nov....

www.saminfo.com

October 2020

Attitash ski exec John Lowell to retire Nov. 1

BARTLETT — John Lowell, 67, has announced that effective Nov. 1, he is retiring from his post as vice president/general manager at Attitash Mountain Resort.

www.conwaydailysun.com

 

[MissySki]

Moving on within VR, or just being replaced? You mean Greg Gavrilets?

December 8, 2021

Days Tech - 재테크, 경제, 생활정보, 돈, 게임 정보

재테크, 경제, 생활정보, 돈, 게임 정보

daystech.org

October 2020

Greg Gavrilets Named Attitash GM - Ski Area Management

SAM Magazine—Bartlett, N.H., Oct. 29, 2020—Tennessee native Greg Gavrilets is the new general manager of Attitash in New Hampshire. He succeeds longtime Attitash leader John Lowell, who is retiring from his role as vice president and general manager of Attitash and nearby Wildcat effective Nov....

www.saminfo.com

October 2020

Attitash ski exec John Lowell to retire Nov. 1

BARTLETT — John Lowell, 67, has announced that effective Nov. 1, he is retiring from his post as vice president/general manager at Attitash Mountain Resort.

www.conwaydailysun.com

He resigned.

 

[Christy]

This made me smile. The political cartoonist for the Seattle Times takes aim. And I like his note about why this matters.

Stevens Pass skiers snowed

A Change.org petition says Vail Resorts has oversold Stevens Pass season passes and is failing to honor the promises made in the marketing of those passes.

www.seattletimes.com

Getting cheated on your ski area season pass definitely falls under the category of First World problems, but, in a region with a legion of snow sports enthusiasts, it is not inconsequential.

For generations, Stevens Pass has been a favorite venue for local skiers and snowboarders. It is not a destination resort in the league of Whistler or even Crystal Mountain, but, because of diverse terrain, plentiful snow and fairly long runs, a day or night at Stevens offers some seriously fun skiing just 90 minutes from the heart of Seattle.

Will Vail find a way to address this blizzard of complaints? Or is it just too cozy inside those corporate offices in Colorado for them to care?

 

[marzNC]

He resigned.

Very interesting. A young man that was put in charge of one of the first three midwest urban ski areas also didn't last too long. He went to Purgatory but then disappeared.

Gavrilets is clearly quite capable. He was a GM with Peak Resorts before taking over at Attitash. Not someone with a long career with VR.

" . . .
This is the third general manager position Gavrilets has held in his relatively young career, which began in 2005 as a ski patroller at Ober Gatlinburg, Tenn. In 2012, he was promoted to the role of terrain park and snowsports development manager there. He was featured as a SAM “10 Under 30” in 2015 before he took on his first GM role at Paoli Peaks, Ind., in 2016.

He took over as GM of Hidden Valley, Mo., in 2017, where he oversaw the installation of a $2.5 million ZipTour attraction that opened last year.

Gavrilets, who holds an MBA from the University of Tennessee, said he arrived in New Hampshire last week. “I am grateful for the opportunity to lead the team at Attitash and continue elevating the guest experience at our resort,” he said. “The White Mountains of New Hampshire are a special place and I look forward to building on the legacy at Attitash and supporting our employees, guests, and local community.”
. . ."