Thanks to this forum I discovered that my insane quad burn since switching out my ski boots is not crazy. So bad I almost cried after one run and I wasn’t able to ski at all during my mammoth vacation (due to shortages no one had any demos or rentals that weren’t too soft ). Does anybody have recommendations for boot models that are more upright that have worked for them? For better or for worse I learned to ski with a very stiff upright boot in the 80’s and I turn by flexing against the boot- and after 30 years they disintegrated. I assumed that stiff flex was what I needed but now I realize after trying various new fangled options that the angle of the stance pitches me too far forward. Does anybody have recommendations for boot models that are more upright that have worked for them? I am (or was) and advanced, aggressive skier. Thanks in advance for any advice.
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Upright stance boots for quad burn?
- Thread starter Esk
- Start date
I’m in Santa Monica- I have a good boot fitter waiting to help me once I buy the boots but I can’t wait for full retail price next fall. Also I’d like to ski this spring break. I went to just about every fitter in Mammoth and none had any understanding of this stance issue. They recommended some boots based on stiffness but I ordered them and even in my home I could tell they would cause the same issue. I’ve tried soooo many and I’m trying to see if I can order some on deep discount because it’s end of season.
Often the discovery of quad burn in new boots is that the boot might have a rear spoiler attached at the back of the cuff top. I haven't seen too many spoilers on boots in recent years, but it is the first thing you will want to check. IF you have one there just remove it. (it's velcro attached.)
Not certain a more upright boot will eliminate quad burn. From my experience, quad burn is usually a sign that the skier is too far back on the skis. And that is caused by so many factors!! Make sure you can flex your ankles in the boot enough to help you stay over the skis. Your comment about flexing agaisnst the boot to turn has me puzzled.
A lesson would also be of great benefit. Another set of eyes of your skiing might reveal something that you are doing or not doing that could be contributing to that quad burn. Even the ski coud be a factor.
Not certain a more upright boot will eliminate quad burn. From my experience, quad burn is usually a sign that the skier is too far back on the skis. And that is caused by so many factors!! Make sure you can flex your ankles in the boot enough to help you stay over the skis. Your comment about flexing agaisnst the boot to turn has me puzzled.
A lesson would also be of great benefit. Another set of eyes of your skiing might reveal something that you are doing or not doing that could be contributing to that quad burn. Even the ski coud be a factor.
Thanks- it’s not only quad burn I also get cramps all up the side of my lower leg when I try boots that are too soft and have a stance that is too low. Does this make any sense? I def want to get a lesson or two to assess my technique once I get a boot that I can deal with. It’s hard to describe but it’s like I push into my boot and the resistance helps me to carve. When there is no resistance my legs give out. I considered that it might be the ski so I demoed best of the boots that they had in Mammoth that were available in my size but they were only a 90 flex Technica, way too soft and pitched Forward but I could tell that the K2 skis that came in the package were phenomenal. Like butter to turn but the boots still killed me. I was pretty devastated thinking that my ski days might be over and then I found this forum and it’s giving me hope that I’m not alone and there’s an option out there that will work.
snoWYmonkey
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I feel your frustration. I once rented boots on a random ski day in MD, and almost cried when I realized how unsupportive the boots were. I personally keep returning to the Lange RX boot. I have tried it with toe lifts under the binding and also played around with heel lifts inside the boot, both of which help with too much forward lean for different reasons. I am not back to skiing the boot right out the box. I took like to drive my boots pretty hard, but think of it more as just staying centered, as I am finally at the point where I also drive the tails to accelerate out of turns when appropriate.
May I ask if you think about flexing at the waist? I only wonder about that as either not enough or too much would make most boots, even stiff boots hard to ski. Just playing around with flexing your ankles forward not in boots at home and then figuring out how much you need to hinge forward at the waist to feel centered and balanced may help.
I worry when I hear you mention lower leg cramping. Is this in the front of your leg or more the back? Stiffness is not just a matter of skier skills, but also leg length and skier weight, which can all massively impact the flex points of each boot. Are you skiing in warm weather, which also softens the boot a lot?
What boot are you currently skiing? Sometimes a very stiff custom liner can also help.
Wishing you a quick solution.
May I ask if you think about flexing at the waist? I only wonder about that as either not enough or too much would make most boots, even stiff boots hard to ski. Just playing around with flexing your ankles forward not in boots at home and then figuring out how much you need to hinge forward at the waist to feel centered and balanced may help.
I worry when I hear you mention lower leg cramping. Is this in the front of your leg or more the back? Stiffness is not just a matter of skier skills, but also leg length and skier weight, which can all massively impact the flex points of each boot. Are you skiing in warm weather, which also softens the boot a lot?
What boot are you currently skiing? Sometimes a very stiff custom liner can also help.
Wishing you a quick solution.
Christy
Angel Diva
I had this problem. Getting in Dalbellos and having my fitter make them as upright as possible (ie getting rid of the spoiler) solved the issue. I think I have the Krypton but they are a few years old so I don't know if they changed.
Hope a new boot works! Bonus, you'll be able to stand in lift lines without fatigue.
Never hurts to have a lesson, but my experience was that instructors were telling me I was not in the back seat, and they couldn't understand why I was in severe pain after half a run. So then they'd tell me I must not be in good shape (wrong).
Thanks for the feedback interesting idea to figure out where my center is. I do flex forward from the waist as well. The cramping I experienced was along the sides of my calfs radiating up from my top of feet to my side ankles. I really think it’s because I didn’t feel like the boots were holding me up properly so I was clenching all through my feet up my legs. I was skiing in warmer weather on the days that I couldn’t even get down the hill. How do the heel lifts or the toe lifts work? If the angle of the boot itself is very sharp can changing those work or is it fundamentally the wrong angle for my leg ? Since my beloved Alpina’s disintegrated I bought a pair of Solomon’s QST 115 that were a hybrid hiker and an absolutely horrible idea they were way too soft, low on my leg, and pitched forward and unsupportive. Then I tried to demo some others technica among them. Since then I have ordered a bunch to try on at home and can feel that the issue is more than just the flex it’s the stance. Some of the brands I’ve tried nordica speed machine 115, Tecnica Mach one, DalBello. I have a Lange coming my way any day now as well as a full tilt soul sister which looks way too forward and is only 90 flex but was a recommendation by a boot fitter who wasn’t aware about the stance being the issue but felt like he could work with that boot, and a K2.
i’ve been looking at the atomic and the Solomon S max as possible options just by eyeballing the way they look but was hoping to get more first-hand feedback from ladies who have a similar issue. I’m basically scouring the Internet for deals on any of these boots and ordering them to see which might be a good starting off point to get a fitter to make them perfect. Also I have an orthotic ready to go.
i’ve been looking at the atomic and the Solomon S max as possible options just by eyeballing the way they look but was hoping to get more first-hand feedback from ladies who have a similar issue. I’m basically scouring the Internet for deals on any of these boots and ordering them to see which might be a good starting off point to get a fitter to make them perfect. Also I have an orthotic ready to go.
mustski
Angel Diva
Just a few thoughts ... a bootfitter who isn't telling you which model of boots will work for you, isn't worth your time. A bootfitter does much more than adjust your boot. I'm not sure who you are using, but walk away. There are no qualified fitters in LA that I know of. I lived in San Diego until 4 years ago, lived in Big Bear the last 4 yrs and still spend summers there, and I am currently in Reno. I've tried just about everybody over the years. If you buy the wrong boot, there won't be anything that even the most genius of fitters can do for you. If the fitter you are referencing didn't tell you that ... well ....?
In Mammoth, Kevin at Footloose is a good bet.
In Tahoe, you can see Bud Heishmann at Snowwind Sport.
.....Tahoe, you see either @SnowHot at Blue Zone Sports in Truckee or her husband, Phil - same place
..... Jim Shaffner at Start Haus (though I would avoid any other fitters there as I have heard mixed reviews.)
In any case, on shelf stock was low this year to start with and super low right now. I, personally, need new boots and am hanging in there until next season because boots are important and it's better (and more cost effective) to get it righ the first time.
edelweissmaedl
Angel Diva
A heel lift is usually under the insole (a bit like adding a small high heel). In my case it’s to help with my limited dorsiflexion. I would want my boot fitter to recommend solutions like that, not have to ask for them. I think the main advice above of finding a qualified boot fitter is key. They should know about Atomic Hawks or other brands with adjustable cuff angles, lifts, shims, canting and what might be best for your anatomy.
WaterGirl
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
@Esk, I have to agree with @mustski recommendations -- if your fitter that is going to "help" you is not advising you on which exact boot to purchase they are not really helping you. I will say I use two fitters on this list and they have identified my unique issues and both recommended the exact same boot for me next year.
Your issues could be stemming from anything from your unique stance and anatomy, boot angle, cuff height, boot board angle, or other fit issues. Skiing in the warm 3D snow certainly brings out different issues. I also recommend taking out the spoilers if you have any in your current boot and maybe experimenting with adding more volume to the front of your boot with a few cut up cardboard pieces stuffed between your shell and tongue to see if that helps. Its not a fix but a clue if being more upright would really help.
This is your short list. Unfortunately there is nothing in So Cal that will work for you and in Mammoth the trend over the past few years has been to cater to the 'recreational' skier. You will only find Women's boots in a flex higher than 95 at Footloose and Mammoth Mountaineering (all back country touring). If you went to Footloose they sold out of a lot pretty quickly this year, but they are one of the few places where you can demo a boot before you purchase. If you haven't checked in with Kevin at footloose (who is a perdorthist) I would try him. I also would highly suggest finding a seasoned fitter who would be familiar with the boot you were skiing - that would be a big tell as to what you are trying to duplicate.
Your issues could be stemming from anything from your unique stance and anatomy, boot angle, cuff height, boot board angle, or other fit issues. Skiing in the warm 3D snow certainly brings out different issues. I also recommend taking out the spoilers if you have any in your current boot and maybe experimenting with adding more volume to the front of your boot with a few cut up cardboard pieces stuffed between your shell and tongue to see if that helps. Its not a fix but a clue if being more upright would really help.
As an instructor most quad burn comes from stance. Whether that stance is you or caused by the boots is what needs to be examined. I can't remember if you said you had burn in the old boots. If so, then you need to see a good instructor that do a analysis first.
As for boot fitters, when I met the guy the I use, he didn't sell boots. Only fixed them. But I left with a recommendation as to what boot and what size to get. That's a boot fitter. Anyone else is a sales person. You have some names, go find someone. Spend money on boots!
As for boot fitters, when I met the guy the I use, he didn't sell boots. Only fixed them. But I left with a recommendation as to what boot and what size to get. That's a boot fitter. Anyone else is a sales person. You have some names, go find someone. Spend money on boots!
Hi -
Unfortunately I’m nowhere close to those recommendations and if I go up to Mammoth I want to have my boots before I get there and not chance that they won’t have anything for me like this last trip. It was so awful to miss the glorious conditions.
I never had this issue in my old boots if anything I used to wonder why people got sore muscles after skiing because I never really did unless I did moguls all day. But on the groomers which is what I do mostly these years with my son learning to ski, never had any pain. The only time I can remember having this issue was on a ski trip in the 90s when I rented boots and they were front entry slippers. Funny I went to a fitter at sure foot who don’t sell just fit and he was perhaps the worst told me to re-learn how to ski again and that I probably wouldn’t find any boots that would replicate anything close to my 80s loves. Said if I could fit into a men’s boot that would help me but since my feet are small No luck
Unfortunately I’m nowhere close to those recommendations and if I go up to Mammoth I want to have my boots before I get there and not chance that they won’t have anything for me like this last trip. It was so awful to miss the glorious conditions.
contesstant
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Also, what size boot? Smaller boots can exacerbate stance issues since the boot makers don't make adjustments to the smaller boots to have flatter boot boards.
You really do need to see a very good fitter who can assess not just the fit, but also how flexible you are, etc. as that can cause calf and achilles issues and could be contributing to your calf pain.
There are a gazillion variables that can affect how a boot skis and feels, but at the end of the day, it is IMPERATIVE that you get a shell that fits your foot, then tweak that shell to work with your anatomy.
You really do need to see a very good fitter who can assess not just the fit, but also how flexible you are, etc. as that can cause calf and achilles issues and could be contributing to your calf pain.
There are a gazillion variables that can affect how a boot skis and feels, but at the end of the day, it is IMPERATIVE that you get a shell that fits your foot, then tweak that shell to work with your anatomy.
We’ll, I sold them. It was a Salomon QST 115 with the hike mode. Just awful. Then I demoed technicas cochise 95 flex and it was even worse. I’ve ordered but sent back nordica speed machine 115 (So cushy comfortable but even wearing in the house I could tell they are too soft and I was cramping, technica Mach 1 too much forward lean and didn’t fit my foot right even with my orthotic but I liked the stiffness, Dalbello krypton ax 110 (didn’t fit my calves). I have coming: Lange RX 110, K2 Anthem 100, full tilt soul sister 90 (which are the boot fitters recommendation). Basically I’ve been ordering from anywhere that I could do returns that have my size in any option that might fit me which is why I asked on this thread what other people have had good luck with. I wish I had the luxury of waiting until next year but both cost and the fact that by the time I get to one of those locations I don’t want to chance not finding anything. I will be going to Vermont this summer and maybe there are leftovers there, also why I was hoping for someone to point me in the right direction.
Christy
Angel Diva
I wish you luck but I'm not sure this method of haphazardly buying what you can get on sale then trying them without a great fitter doing adjustments will work.
There are a lot of people that don't live near a good boot shop or fitter, and have to plan trips around finding that.
Instead of going to Mammoth for spring break, can you go to Tahoe and visit the recommended shops/fitters?
You probably have some sunk costs into Mammoth and don't want to change. I almost wonder if you'd be better off just renting boots at Mammoth--ones you can swap out--rather than buying boots that may not work for you.
I know cost is always an issue with most of us but if you want to solve the problem, I would strongly discourage you from letting a a "deep discount" guide your purchase.
Boots can be so tricky and some people spend years figuring them out.
To go with Christy statement about boot shop and distance....I'm either a 5 hour drive to Tremblant, or a cross country flight to my original boot fitter as he resides in Whistler in the winter.
It all depends on how committed you are to getting a great pair of fitted boots. Buying on line and returning everything will get really frustrating. Your fitter recommended the Full tilts, that should have been the first thing you got.
It all depends on how committed you are to getting a great pair of fitted boots. Buying on line and returning everything will get really frustrating. Your fitter recommended the Full tilts, that should have been the first thing you got.
Yup, as soon as he recommended I ordered those but then I started to worry that he might not understand the whole issue when I saw the thread on this forum. Do you know any fitters in Vermont? I’m originally from mtl btw. Will be in Stowe for the summer. If I end up crossing the border to visit my hometown maybe I’ll head up to tremblant -who is your fitter there?
