Steeps. Getting over the mental barrier?

[pinto]

Love BackCountryGirl's post about the center of mass moving down the mountain (ahead of the skis). Very scary to do but that's what really works in steeps, IMHO.

I'm going to say something heretical - The reaching down the mountain type pole plant can actually work against you. I've been taught that when you reach out/down like that your body compensates in a way that actually puts your weight back. Often (not always) with the butt moving back a bit.

It's hard (scary) but can be better to plant the pole close to your body just in front of the downhill heel and dive down the fall line with your head/torso first instead of sticking that arm out there.

That makes total sense, of course ... I guess it depends on how far one is "reaching." If you are timid, any movement at all down the hill is going to feel like reaching, even if it is not. On the other hand, I know exactly what you are saying about true reaching, it bends you over.

All the different ways we interpret and act on the same word, this is why I hate getting into technique discussions online! lol

 

[Skisailor]

That makes total sense, of course ... I guess it depends on how far one is "reaching." If you are timid, any movement at all down the hill is going to feel like reaching, even if it is not. On the other hand, I know exactly what you are saying about true reaching, it bends you over.

All the different ways we interpret and act on the same word, this is why I hate getting into technique discussions online! lol

Totally agree with you. And Yeah it can be difficult to describe things on a forum.

Sounds like you know the reach I'm talking about though - true reach that bends you over and sends your butt back. I've seen it very commonly among skiers skiing steep terrain though.

I like the technique discussions we have here! We don't do it all that much and we usually don't get too crazy about it - either in terms of level of detail or demeanor.

Unlike that other website which shall remain nameless. <wink>

 

[bounceswoosh]

I had a lot of success with one instructor telling me to plant my pole on steeps like I'm shifting into first - a forward motion. Then lately I've been told to be careful not to let my pole plant create body rotation.

I think skiing is a constant process of overshooting the mark (if you're lucky and have made progress) and then overshooting in the other direction as you correct the first correction. Over time you slowly oscillate toward a spot closer to center ...

 

[climbingbetty]

I had a lot of success with one instructor telling me to plant my pole on steeps like I'm shifting into first - a forward motion. Then lately I've been told to be careful not to let my pole plant create body rotation.

I think skiing is a constant process of overshooting the mark (if you're lucky and have made progress) and then overshooting in the other direction as you correct the first correction. Over time you slowly oscillate toward a spot closer to center ...

That's a really useful analogy!!!!!

 

[contesstant]

I had a lot of success with one instructor telling me to plant my pole on steeps like I'm shifting into first - a forward motion. Then lately I've been told to be careful not to let my pole plant create body rotation.

I think skiing is a constant process of overshooting the mark (if you're lucky and have made progress) and then overshooting in the other direction as you correct the first correction. Over time you slowly oscillate toward a spot closer to center ...

Your second point is very interesting! I was doing this today I think--kind of my first day of the season so I was majorly exaggerating pole plants, turn shape, driving the skis. Then after about 3 runs, I relaxed a bit more and just let them ride. I truly need to learn to relax more often!

 

[mustski]

Pole plants or "taps" which I think is a more accurate term ARE very hard to define. Part of it is that it is more "feel" dependent than "location" dependent. I'm not a speed demon or anything, but I couldn't tell you WHERE I plant my poles. I just know that when that's off - everything that follows feels off kilter. It's part of the rhythm. When it's right, it feels right.

Edited to add: I was taught to reach "sideways" as you are completing one turn reach sideways with the opposite arm because it keeps your upper body facing downhill. My mom used to call it my "bird move" when she saw it. I still fall back on that at the beginning of a season which is when I most struggle with rhythm. I have no idea when the pole touches the snow after that. It just does, when it feels right. That's why I could never instruct. Skiing works best for me when it does ... and I can't explain why.

 

[abc]

I think skiing is a constant process of overshooting the mark (if you're lucky and have made progress) and then overshooting in the other direction as you correct the first correction. Over time you slowly oscillate toward a spot closer to center ...

Your second point is very interesting! I was doing this today I think--kind of my first day of the season so I was majorly exaggerating pole plants, turn shape, driving the skis. Then after about 3 runs, I relaxed a bit more and just let them ride. I truly need to learn to relax more often!

For the first 5 years of my skiing, I was told to move my limbs this way or that way to achieve this or that result. Some times it worked, other times, it didn't. It wasn't until one day the "aha" moment came when I was told skiing is about BALANCE! Balance on the edge of the ski, that is.

For the next 5 years, I progress quite a bit because I started to connect all the "movements" with moving (or more importantly, BALANCE) my body with respect to the edge of the ski!

But it wasn't until about 5 years ago that I started to comprehend that skiing is really about BALANCE, period! Lateral balance across the edge of the ski, and for-aft balance to engage the tips and tails of skis at the right moment.

Pole plant, hands, knees, waist, back, even our little head, all have to do with fine-tuning our balance over our skis.

I wish someone told me that at the very beginning. That would have helped a lot in understanding WHY moving my hands and arms a certain way produces a certain result, rather than producing the opposite result instead.

 

[Pequenita]

Pole plants or "taps" which I think is a more accurate term ARE very hard to define. Part of it is that it is more "feel" dependent than "location" dependent. I'm not a speed demon or anything, but I couldn't tell you WHERE I plant my poles. I just know that when that's off - everything that follows feels off kilter. It's part of the rhythm. When it's right, it feels right.

I've been known to ski/trip over my pole tips. Obviously, I was doing something wrong.

 

[AltaEgo]

There is a trick I use to make terrain ski steeper. Make your turn, count to three, then make your next turn. It is a way to pick up speed and build confidence that you can turn.

I also have trouble on steep terrain. Part of my fear is logical (replaced left knee) but mostly I have trouble with my head. I ski steeps one turn at a time, slowly, and finish the turn uphill to slow down. That position presents a new challenge--getting the next turn started. I make sure my upper body is facing downhill, reach for my pole plant which allows me to change edges and let my ski tips slide forward into the next turn. The hardest part for me is keeping my body in the downhill flow and keeping turning, turning, albeit slowly and remembering to start each turn by breathing in and breathing out during the turn. (Yup, I get scared enough that I hold my breath. Duh.). I also make my first turn as I go over the head wall so I am already slowing when I hit the steep part and don't have time to get mentally blocked.

It is hard, but I practice often doing these small, slow turns on easier steeps so I am ready for the true scary ones. Worst case is you side step or slide slip down part of it, embarrassing, but not the end of the world. Then work next time on side stepping less. But always remember what you DID accomplish, not focus on your perceived "failures". They are learning steps, nothing more and nothing less.

Hope this helps.

 

[MaineSkiLady]

^^^ I really like this methodology, mainly because it's how I learned to deal with steeps: by not taking in so much of the picture all at once. "Zone focusing" is what DH (former instructor) calls it. Don't worry about what is 20 turns ahead. Your focus has to be on The Next Turn. In my early years of skiing with him, he spent many a patient run talking me through one turn at a time. Plus slow-mo following, 6-8 feet behind.

I still have to use this, copiously, on steep big bumps. Hey - I stay upright! No style points.

 

[santacruz skier]

This thread is really interesting and informative. I like that the divas don't get all pushy and know it all about it, but offer some great suggestions and solutions. I think I'd like to be able to print this thread out so I can refer to it…. Tips such as planting poles on steeps but being careful not to sit back resonated with me.
One thing I do sometimes (and divas may not agree) is ski with my iPod on a low volume so I can relax but still hear what's going on around me.

 

[litterbug]

For the first 5 years of my skiing, I was told to move my limbs this way or that way to achieve this or that result. Some times it worked, other times, it didn't. It wasn't until one day the "aha" moment came when I was told skiing is about BALANCE! Balance on the edge of the ski, that is.
[snip]
Pole plant, hands, knees, waist, back, even our little head, all have to do with fine-tuning our balance over our skis.

I wish someone told me that at the very beginning. That would have helped a lot in understanding WHY moving my hands and arms a certain way produces a certain result, rather than producing the opposite result instead.

I totally agree! I'm just barely getting a sense of what balance on skis might feel like, and like you did, I'm discovering that all those bits and pieces I've been hearing and reading about are just tools to address balance in different parts of the turn. I'll admit that if I think about it too much I tend to feel daunted by the prospect of putting it together. But I figure I can only learn one thing at a time; the key is keeping my mind flexible and not getting too hung up on some ideal that always seems so, so far away!

 

[snow addict]

If only a pole touch is needed it's probably not steep.

 

[bounceswoosh]

If only a pole touch is needed it's probably not steep.

Steep is relative. We've been over this.

 

[snow addict]

It's relative to the point but from a certain gradient it becomes objectively steep.

 

[bounceswoosh]

Well, the slopes Xinga is describing are objectively steep.

 

[Kimmyt]

If only a pole touch is needed it's probably not steep.

Sometimes we need one thing to focus on that helps bring a myriad of other things into play.

 

[abc]

If only a pole touch is needed it's probably not steep.

why is that?

 

[snow addict]

why is that?

because in steep terrain pole plant provides extra support, it's your third leg. If you can just touch and go you don't really need support, which basically means that terrain is relatively mellow. But when it gets steep, the plant is definite and pole stays planted until the turn is completed. Plant > turn skis around >take the pole out > plant the other pole. And pole is planted not too far down since while bringing skis around you need to minimize the time they spend in the fall line or in the air if you are making jump turns. So staying compact is the way to do it.

 

[bounceswoosh]

because in steep terrain pole plant provides extra support, it's your third leg. If you can just touch and go you don't really need support, which basically means that terrain is relatively mellow. But when it gets steep, the plant is definite and pole stays planted until the turn is completed. Plant > turn skis around >take the pole out > plant the other pole. And pole is planted not too far down since while bringing skis around you need to minimize the time they spend in the fall line or in the air if you are making jump turns. So staying compact is the way to do it.

I disagree. Do you think the Alaskan spines that Rachael and Lynsey were skiing in Pretty Faces were steep? I thought they were awfully steep, but they were not skiing as you describe. I think of what you're describing as "survival skiing" and not what I aspire to.