Steeps. Getting over the mental barrier?

[Xinga]

How did you get past your fear of steeper terrain?

The only piece of advice I've gotten that seems to work is to go try to ski something EVEN STEEPER. Then what was previously thought to be steep seems less so.

But when I'm already scared about a certain level of steepness, to go seek something even steeper out seems just plumb stupid.

Anyone have other effective tactics?

Doing three billion laps of the feared steep terrain is definitely not as effective as the go steeper method for me.

Skiing the feared terrain in ideal conditions definitely helps. Then I can get the feel of how I *should* be skiing it, and hopefully it will translate back to the less than perfect conditions. But the less than perfect conditions also add their own element of additional fear and tentativeness.

Other suggestions?

I ask because we're going to Crested Butte later this month. My DH is a ripping skier who will want to drag me along to all the scariest steeps and chutes there. I've never been there before, neither has he. His favorite ski pro said this about Crested Butte: he proposed to his current wife because when he took her to CB, she didn't cry. I don't want to cry either.

Is there anything I can do in a few weekends of skiing to prepare myself for CB?

I guess the upside is that maybe the top of my home mountain (Breckenridge) will seem less steep after I freak out at CB!

 

[climbingbetty]

I ask because we're going to Crested Butte later this month. My DH is a ripping skier who will want to drag me along to all the scariest steeps and chutes there. I've never been there before, neither has he. His favorite ski pro said this about Crested Butte: he proposed to his current wife because when he took her to CB, she didn't cry. I don't want to cry either.

Ugh! So what I was trying to say was this:

I'm sorry I have nothing helpful to add regarding getting over the fear of steeps. But what stuck out to me was this quip about the ski pro and his wife not crying at CB.

First of all, you're already married, yes? So what do you have to worry about if you do cry? Crying happens sometimes.

I don't know about steeps- but I do know about other scary things like rock climbing and facing those fears. I imagine there are MANY parallels. I find that when I am stressed out about 'keeping up' and 'trying to impress' someone by doing something really scary for me- that is a recipe for crying. I get so frustrated with myself for not being braver, more kick a$$, but the fear is so intense, it just won't let me do what my brain thinks I 'should' be doing. The frustration builds until it comes out my eyeballs.

In all likelihood, Mrs. Ski Pro didn't cry because she had a certain amount of comfort on that terrain. An amount of comfort it sounds like you don't have (yet.)

In my experience with climbing, its best to face your fears in little tiny increments- break it down into the tiniest step forward and work your way through it to the next step. If you try to break off more than you can chew, you are more likely to have a negative experience. That negative experience will become very strongly imprinted in your limbic brain- the part that is concerned with survival and where strong emotions like fear comes from. It may become so strongly imprinted that you will have a lot more trouble trying to overcome that fear in the future. This mechanism may already be in play to a certain degree if you've already had a bad experience on steeps that is leading you to be afraid of them now.

Everyone is a little different when it comes to how quickly they can work through fears. It might not be realistic for you to simply 'get over this' in a few week's time. My husband (who is a highly skilled climber and a rock climbing guide) & I have had extensive talks and discussions about my fears and how I can handle them better. He's helped as best he could, but to a certain extent, I had to find my own solutions that worked best for me. Particularly, climbing with other women who were just a little better than me worked really well to inspire me to try harder things. I saw what they could do with the idea of "it they can do that, I bet I can do that too!" and I have NEVER gotten that with any male climbers partners. That is something that has worked for me personally, but doesn't work with everyone.

IMHO, investigate strategies you could try for getting better in the steeps. But ahead of your trip, have an open dialogue with your husband about what YOUR goals are for the trip and what would be enjoyable for YOU while in CB. It's your trip too. You should have fun and enjoy yourself, not come home with memories of tears & frustration (unless that is how you would prefer to remember your trip). Find a strategy to accommodate both of your goals if they are significantly different. Don't be afraid to maybe split up on a few days while you're out there. Maybe it be worthwhile to plan a few days where he can go do the uber steep stuff and maybe you take a lesson where you work with a pro specifically on strategies for getting YOU ready for the steeps.

Have fun! And happy skiing

 

[bounceswoosh]

It's both adorable and annoying how your DH has such faith in your abilities that he takes you places you'd rather not go. And you can't rely on him for beta.

So, firstly, I know you're a badass skier. I've seen you ski. So don't sell yourself short.

But secondly, I really think the only way to deal with this is by the horns. It's not about making yourself more comfortable on steeps; it's about skiing things in your comfort zone, or not too far outside it. What would you do if you were skiing alone? You wouldn't have Mr. Xinga to suggest anything. You'd need to use your own judgment. It's harder to do that when Mr. Xinga is pushing for some run, but you need to stand firm and use your own judgment, not rely on his. You know his is faulty. I can't count how many times Mr. Swoosh and I got into fights because I made him choose a run, then was upset at him for taking me down something I didn't want to ski. Take ownership of your experience. This is a less consequential version of the backcountry dilemma - don't give someone else your power.

Thirdly, pay for a lesson. Use the lesson to find the goods that *you* will enjoy. (That's always my solution, as you know ;-) )

 

[contesstant]

Great advice above! I often split off from my husband while skiing because he wants to ski stuff that I'm just not comfortable with. It's just more enjoyable for us that way. Sometimes, it's even just taking different runs off the same lift (actually, this happens a lot.) Then we might ski a few together, then split up again.

You need to go have FUN, and getting taken on runs that scare you and leave you in tears is not fun!

 

[Xinga]

You guys are all awesome, and your advice is spot on.

I should have probably made this into two separate threads:
1) How to have a happy experience at CB even though I might not be confident and comfortable where DH wants to ski, but think I might want to try anyway.
AND
2) I want to get better at steeps. What tactics have you used to make improvements mentally and in your skiing for steep terrain?

You guys have tackled 1) very well now.

How about 2)?

 

[bounceswoosh]

Pay a ski instructor? /duck

 

[abc]

The only piece of advice I've gotten that seems to work is to go try to ski something EVEN STEEPER. Then what was previously thought to be steep seems less so.

But when I'm already scared about a certain level of steepness, to go seek something even steeper out seems just plumb stupid.

2) I want to get better at steeps. What tactics have you used to make improvements mentally and in your skiing for steep terrain?

You guys have tackled 1) very well now.

How about 2)?

Fear is a normal responds when faced with true danger, or perceived danger.

If the "go steeper" tactic works for you, you're probably dealing with perceived danger that you already have the skill to handle?

If so, go ahead and seek out something steeper on a good condition day for the express purpose of getting over the mental block! Once you've skied something looking steep, everything else looks tame (or at least perfectly manageable). You've already found that out.

Technically speaking, learn how to self-arrest probably helps to build a comfort cushion too.

I'm sure other ripping divas will chime in with more helpful tips.

 

[Xinga]

Yes, yes. Instruction is a big part of the answer, and I'll probably grab a walk up lesson/mtn guide at CB our first day.

I also already have an ongoing discussion with my fav pro on this topic. (she is a saint for putting up with my pestering!)

The things I, myself, have reasoned through:
1) I think my fear is speed and control based. I no longer am afraid of speed in most other scenarios. The solution was primarily based upon looking further down the hill, which makes things seem slower because you have more time to react to what you see. SO, I need to stop staring at the steep turn right in front of my skis! Look further down the hill!
I am really strong. I can overcome excess speed with power to regain control if needed! (I would just prefer not to have to!)
2) In the last year or two, I have really improved my ability to see and ski lines through bumps. I use to get mind boggled by bumps and couldn't see where to go more than one or two bumps at a time. Then I would have to stop and pick the next one or two. I have finally learned how to see a line much further down the hill. In the steeps that I have the most difficulty with, there are usually no bumps, so no visual cues to trigger me to look further down the hill! I need to somehow force myself to look ahead and pick a line anyway.

She (fav ski pro) says:
1) Fix a couple fundamentals: be more dynamic reaching down the hill, stop being complacent with my hands
2) Look even further down the hill
3) quit analyzing each turn and dance down the hill with more rhythm
4) Stop eagle talon-ing my feet with fear. Relax edges and schmear more!

I did have a big breakthrough with the complacent hands and engaging a stronger inside half this last weekend, so hopefully I will be able to carry that forward these next couple of weeks!

Big theme here on looking further down the hill! Easier said than done, for some reason!

 

[bounceswoosh]

I also find myself staring at my feet all the time when I need to be looking forward - especially if I'm working on loosening my toes. Somehow when I think about relaxing or raising my toes, I find myself staring at my boots =/

 

[Xinga]

I find that if I'm thinking about anything (hand position, toes, edges, etc), then I'm not actively looking down the hill.

 

[Pequenita]

2) I want to get better at steeps. What tactics have you used to make improvements mentally and in your skiing for steep terrain?
***
How about 2)?

My tactics:

As far as the mental factor goes, I've found that knowing that I need to ski it aggressively from the first push or turn gives me confidence. This was the big "aha" for me last season. I mean, I knew it, but I'd never applied it until last year. And it worked!

Also, being able to go close to my own pace. Talk about Goldilocks. Being rushed messes me up. But so does waiting around too long. I think this is where being spouseless is sort of helpful...

Finally, I usually think of just one technical thing. For the first drop, it's usually core engagement and then the rest of the time, it's getting my hands out. Or counter rotation (because otherwise I'm hugging the mountain for dear life).

 

[mustski]

My biggest problem is that, once fear kicks in, I start thinking of every technical aspect of skiing and it's like brain bomb! Body off and confused! I remind myself to just feel the rhythm of what works for me and feels right. Singing has always helped for me but, for fear of starting an ear worm over again, I won't say what song! That said, there are certain condition and types of steeps (read narrow chutes) that I won't ski because I just don't have the skill level. So the challenge is really recognizing the fear of what we lack the skills to safely ski while pushing ourselves to commit to those runs that we do have the skills to ski and overcoming the fear. At a new mountain, this is best achieved with an instructor or guide who knows what lies ahead, can evaluate your ability, and show you the way through the terrain.

 

[bounceswoosh]

Singing =) That worked for me on that slope we were on Sunday. It builds a rhythm and forces you to engage your core. And distract your brain.

My latest is from the Alaskan spines in Pretty Faces:

I said, I don’t care if she’s the Devil’s daughter
Still I dare dip my toes and test the waters

I said, I don’t care if she’s the Devil’s daughter
Still I dare dip my toes in desperate waters​

 

[pinto]

Can you find a short steep pitch, something with a flat runout so if you do fall, you won't fall forever?

 

[Little Lightning]

I'm the queen of fear. Skiing familiar terrain has helped tremendously. Like you when conditions are less than stellar I freeze and just ride the skis.

I still practice skills I learned in my lessons, I ski lots of days and ski the same mountains. Today I fell apart on the face of a blue run that has always given me trouble. Instead of thinking that's the best I can do I finally decided to figure out why it's so troublesome. I realized I rush my turn on the left side only which of course throws off my right turns. I've been told this by ski instructors but I never felt it. I'm sure a lot of this is due to a hip injury that I've been dealing with for quite a few years. I don't know why today it came to me, new ski boots, strengthening my hip, frustration or no other skiers around to worry me. I went back to that face, made my turns and worked on being patient on my left side. Result, perfect tracks and completed turns. I felt relaxed and calm. The best thing learned today is I had the skill all along. Now I'm going to have to practice being patient on my left turn, over and over, maybe on that same stupid face, until I own it.

The advice here is good but like learning to read, skiing is a progression and when you're ready for a particular skill it will come. Often it's one little thing throwing you off. That's why I love skiing, I never stop learning and trying to improve.

 

[Skisailor]

I was curious about your comments about speed. Is there a reason why you want to ski steeps fast? Why not ski them slow? And to ski them slow, it's about getting off your edges.

I slow down in steep terrain. Yeah . . . there are those I ski with who are comfortable bombing GS turns down 40 degree pitches. Not me. I ski them at a comfortable, stay within myself pace. And I've found that with mileage, my comfort zone keeps expanding so that I DO ski them faster. Taking on steep pitches AND speed at the same time seems like too much. So just like everything else I've learned in skiing - I would say - DONT look farther ahead so you can go fast. Go slow!

Sounds like you've already done this in other aspects of your skiing. No reason not to translate that to getting more comfortable in steeps.

 

[bounceswoosh]

Xinga has skied 40+ degree pitches without trouble. Xinga, I think it's more conditions + steeps that are troublesome, no? For example - you wouldn't hesitate to ski CJ's on a good snow day. I'm pretty sure whatever we were skiing Sunday was more than 35 degrees.

 

[Kimmyt]

In the steeps that I have the most difficulty with, there are usually no bumps, so no visual cues to trigger me to look further down the hill! I need to somehow force myself to look ahead and pick a line anyway.

I know when I ski steeps with others, while we are not immediately stacked on top of each other, one person typically leads then the other may follow 4-5 turns behind. Enough space so that if something happens you're not taking down the person near you, but you are still within easy distance. Barring any sort of avy danger, of course. So it's still quite possible that you can follow your husband's line, even if there are no visual cues (although i find this hard to believe- there are ALWAYS visual cues on steeps, bits of rock sticking out, rollovers, trees, etc.). Or force the issue, have husband ski down to a predetermined point and then stand down there so that you can look at where he is, therefore forcing your vision downhill further than you would typically focus.

 

[Xinga]

Yes, @bounceswoosh, I ski these things just fine and without apparent trouble. That doesn't mean it feels good. And I know I can do the steeps better... Want to get better! I know that it's hugely mental to get the next step of improvement.

@Kimmyt, you are correct too, there are some visual cues like rocks and such, but those are the things I don't want to look at! I am a firm believer that you go where you look, and I don't want look or go there! The ski down after someone trick works reasonably well, as long as I do actually look up at them instead of down at my ski tips (and that next super steep turn).

 

[Xinga]

@Skisailor , the goal is to ski it slow and in control. The fear comes from concern that I will mess up a turn, get too far back, and rocket off faster.