Staggered at people teaching their own kids

[geargrrl]

I think ultimately each family has do decide what is going to work best for them, giving their experience, and also the choices the mountain has. For example, our ski school doesn't take kids younger than 5, period. The day care does not offer a ski and play option, it's strictly inside play. We have two green runs, only on is accessible off a beginner lift. So given all that, if you are up there all the time like we are, options are pretty limited if you don't do it yourself with the little ones.

 

[Gloria]

LOL - we have one green run and no green way to get from run back to bottom. Daycare? It's not always easy even for the instructors in this situation as often times parents feel the need to push the instructors to take the kids up to that green run sooner than they are ready to get back down. It's definately not always cut and dry and I think it would disturb me if I consistently saw the same parent taking a crying child down a run way over their abilities over and over. But then again I think we have all overestimated our own childrens abilities at times and often times this is the case and as such is a one time event.

 

[ScottishGirlie]

As well as teaching on snow, I teach on a dry ski slope in Scotland which is a slope made of artificial mat. We are about 100-110metres in length. Our centre is at the top of the slope so all beginners and lower level skiers have to take the clearly marked path down to the bottom.

This is a case of a Mum who thought she knew best.

I was expecting a child for a private lesson in the evening. Whilst still teaching a lesson, I spotted a mother and child looking a bit lost at the top of the slope, still on the other side of the wall. I asked if they were my next lesson and they were. I knew the girl was a beginner and asked the Mum to walk down the path which I pointed out to her, and told her that I would meet them shortly when I had finished the current lesson I was on.

I still had about ten minutes to go before their lesson started. I wasn't aware of the Mum and daughter after that.

Eventually I headed over to the bottom for my next lesson where there seemed to be a bit of situation between the Mum and daughter. The daughter was refusing to put her skis on. Plus she was in tears.

Wait for this....

It turned out that the Mum had ignored the staff inside about walking down to the bottom, plus what I had said. Instead she put on her skis plus her daughters and walked her daughter down from the top of the ski slope. The daughter broke free from her Mum just after half way and careered out of control pretty much all the way to the bottom before crashing!!!

The little girl had various learning difficulties and was quite upset. The Mum assured me she was fine but the wee soul was just not going to go anywhere near her skis. In the end we gave up and they walked back up to the top. The Mum was very apologetic.

The next day I got a phone call from a very sheepish Mum, apologising yet again. The wee girl apparently went to bed fine that night but by the next day she was very grumbly...and with a bit of a hot leg. Yup, she had a fracture in her leg.

This was from a few years ago. But about two months ago we had pretty much had the same thing happen, just not the broken leg part.

Nobody is allowed to teach on our slope apart from the centre instructors. It doesn't stop people trying though and it is crazy seeing what risk some people put themselves and their children in.

Equally however, the ski families that have grown up with it all their lives, from generation to generation - they're fab to work with because the parents are all so sensible.

 

[OneOutdatedDiva]

My daughter and I were discussing this issue on the lift Sunday -- we did not have her boys along, and it was fun to ski like grown ups for a change! But anyway, we got talking about how we're going to need a BIG consequence for bombing down a run. Something like, if they don't stay with their grown up and listen, then they're going in the day care with the babies. Or, maybe we should get one of those leashes to carry for that! The daycare center is expensive, but the lesson MUST be learned, and of course, we can't tell them "do this and you go to daycare," and then not stick to it.


Karen in Boise

Have you tried this? My son is 10 and has only been skiing 3 times. The first time out I invested in a lesson and he bogged out. He refused to listen to the instructor and thinks he knows everything. I was of the mindset that he's gonna need to learn the hard way, yet I would prefer if this was not with broken bones.

Yesterday, I spent a bit of time with him on the hill and he, being quite the introvert, tells me that the reason he did this is that he wants to ski with me an only me. So we worked on a few things and w/in one run he was turning, but would only make 2 or 3 turns consecutively and then bomb the rest of the run. I took off for a break and came back to find him up on the blues...bombing them too. I was very frustrated and every time I tried to stop and redirect him he'd continue down the hill.

I want him to have fun, yet there is a better way. I banned him from the blues for the rest of the day. Told him he was dangerous and outta control but am at a loss as to what to do! Any suggestions?

 

[2ski2moro]

Have you tried this? My son is 10 and has only been skiing 3 times. The first time out I invested in a lesson and he bogged out. He refused to listen to the instructor and thinks he knows everything. I was of the mindset that he's gonna need to learn the hard way, yet I would prefer if this was not with broken bones.

Yesterday, I spent a bit of time with him on the hill and he, being quite the introvert, tells me that the reason he did this is that he wants to ski with me an only me. So we worked on a few things and w/in one run he was turning, but would only make 2 or 3 turns consecutively and then bomb the rest of the run. I took off for a break and came back to find him up on the blues...bombing them too. I was very frustrated and every time I tried to stop and redirect him he'd continue down the hill.

I want him to have fun, yet there is a better way. I banned him from the blues for the rest of the day. Told him he was dangerous and outta control but am at a loss as to what to do! Any suggestions?

My first reaction to your post was, Oh great, now he is dangerous and out of control on the trail with all the beginners on it. That's like taking an out of control 16 year old driver with no respect for speed limits and telling him to drive in a school zone.

I apologize for being grouchy, because I am sure I have offended you and others. But if my 10 year old were skiing on a green slope and your out of control 10 year old with a beer wench and a bottle opener on his helmet hit and injured my child, I would be more than PO'd.

This topic is Staggered at People Teaching their Own Kids. I don't think your teaching method is working, and I think this is exactly what this post was about.

Ski instructors have years of experience teaching not only the physical aspects of skiing, but also motivating and encouraging the reluctant student, as well as teaching control to the overconfident. The instructor teaches ski and lift etiquette, as well. They are dedicated individuals, who want to share their love of the sport.

My recommendation is to bring along a buddy for him, and get him in Ski School.

Just my $.02

 

[Jilly]

I was thinking about some kind of bribery. I had a friend who's daughter was upset that she didn't get a girl instructor. Friend finally put it to her, you either take the lesson with X or no dinner with the company coming tonight for dinner with us. It worked for them.

So maybe something similar. Just taking away the blues isn't going to do it. He needs to be told that if he doesn't shape up, there will be further consequences and it should something that he really likes - TV, computer games - whatever works.

Most kids need a qualified instructor!

 

[geargrrl]

When my sons refused to take direction or follow the rules, I took off their skis and locked them in the car.

 

[OneOutdatedDiva]

My first reaction to your post was, Oh great, now he is dangerous and out of control on the trail with all the beginners on it. That's like taking an out of control 16 year old driver with no respect for speed limits and telling him to drive in a school zone.

I apologize for being grouchy, because I am sure I have offended you and others. But if my 10 year old were skiing on a green slope and your out of control 10 year old with a beer wench and a bottle opener on his helmet hit and injured my child, I would be more than PO'd.

Just my $.02

Hello that's why I posted here!!!!! Okay now then, I've been sarcastic and grouchy back, but I think you've misunderstood me...He has control on the Greens but isn't turning as much as I'd like and does not snowplow at all when I was an instructor and I still believe this today...easy does it...he wants speed, I don't think speed on a green is a good idea in control or not (thus i said he was bombing them too) .... the blues is where he is outta control (truly bombing)and as far as instruction...I've paid for it and he refuses to listen or even engage(ignoring what is said by anyone w/o me there). Dropped him off for a lesson came back a half hour later to peak and see how he was doing only to find he took himself for hot chocolate.

I'm not letting my child just head out to create a disaster, rather trying to prevent that and was looking for advice...locking the skis in the car is an option and I threatened but did not need to use this as he did not ski blues for the rest of the day.....

Sorry if I mis-communicated the issue I am having with my son. I did not and would not go out there and think that I would be able to instruct him rather the opposite as he is very obstinate (comes with being a gifted/only child) I used to be a ski-wee instructor so this would not be that inappropriate had I chose to do such a thing though! The basics have not changed nor have common courtesy which is what I am trying to get him to understand with or without the help of an instructor...my son needs someone that he can not manipulate to instruct him...and with most adults this is not possible. I am trying to do what is right and asked the question I asked to see if- anyone had dealt with this type of issue successfully.

 

[2ski2moro]

You want suggestions? Here ya go.

1. Give him some say in making the rules and determining consequences. “You may ski with me, after you have had your lesson.” “You must stay on the Green slopes and ski in control.” “If you are not in control, you must take your skis off and come in.” “If you come in, you may not play video games.” Etc.

2. Actions have consequences: It's so easy to threaten to do something. Make sure you are willing to carry out your threat of reprisal. Be sure to do it.

3. Reward: Some children respond better to reward than punishment. Make them earn it, just like they have to do in the real world. “We will go in for hot chocolate when you make linked turns all the way down here. Or, “You can ski with me all day after you take 6 consecutive morning ski lessons.”

4. Praise enthusiastically.

5. Be a good example. Maybe you need to take a few lessons, for his sake. We can all get better at our sport.

6. Teach him to be patient. You didn’t let him run through the parking lot right after he learned to walk. Hold onto his hand until he is ready to acknowledge the danger and accept personal responsibility.

7. Teach him self-control.


One last thought…you said that your son was gifted. I will make an assumption that his learning experiences have always been effortless for him. He reads, he understands. Maybe he didn’t do so well in the lesson because it was too hard for him for the first time ever. Maybe he was embarrassed that he didn’t get it as fast as the others. Or, maybe it was too easy. Really bright kids get bored when the others are trying to catch up.

Either way, his choice to leave the supervised activity and go off on his own to get hot chocolate is alarming to me. He's only 10! That ski instructor has responsibility for your child during that period of time. Allowing him to leave is unacceptable.

Although it is costly, a private lesson or a semi-private with one of his friends may be the only alternative, so that your son moves at his own pace and remains interested.

I still think that turning him over to a Certified Ski Instructor is the better way to go.

 

[MaineSkiLady]

Ow ow. The fence post is digging in here as I sit on it. Circumstances somewhat different, but I "get" this early-macho-male-kid-thing, having been there and done that (and survived). There were substantive differences (sometimes huge, as in the "gifted" tag line) - and this one was relatively accomplished at this age but seemingly bored. (ADHD, always at work...) Distraction and positive reinforcement were always best prior to punishment. Sometimes I took away ONE ski. ("Okay, you're so cool, get down this on one ski.") Sometimes I requested a stint of switch (before it even had this name!). Sometimes it was helping out with the younger kids - or even those the same age, less accomplished.

Primarily, it was ski school/seasonal programs, but that still left enough time and other ski outings for misbehavior.

Happily (or not?), it is a phase that diminishes with time and skill, and sometimes, said perpetrator changes equipment altogether (and still prefers not to turn, and still is "faster than a speeding bullet" - ).

Chill, y'all

 

[OneOutdatedDiva]

You want suggestions? Here ya go.

1. Give him some say in making the rules and determining consequences. “You may ski with me, after you have had your lesson.” “You must stay on the Green slopes and ski in control.” “If you are not in control, you must take your skis off and come in.” “If you come in, you may not play video games.” Etc.

2. Actions have consequences: It's so easy to threaten to do something. Make sure you are willing to carry out your threat of reprisal. Be sure to do it.

3. Reward: Some children respond better to reward than punishment. Make them earn it, just like they have to do in the real world. “We will go in for hot chocolate when you make linked turns all the way down here. Or, “You can ski with me all day after you take 6 consecutive morning ski lessons.”

4. Praise enthusiastically.

5. Be a good example. Maybe you need to take a few lessons, for his sake. We can all get better at our sport.

6. Teach him to be patient. You didn’t let him run through the parking lot right after he learned to walk. Hold onto his hand until he is ready to acknowledge the danger and accept personal responsibility.

7. Teach him self-control.


One last thought…you said that your son was gifted. I will make an assumption that his learning experiences have always been effortless for him. He reads, he understands. Maybe he didn’t do so well in the lesson because it was too hard for him for the first time ever. Maybe he was embarrassed that he didn’t get it as fast as the others. Or, maybe it was too easy. Really bright kids get bored when the others are trying to catch up.

Either way, his choice to leave the supervised activity and go off on his own to get hot chocolate is alarming to me. He's only 10! That ski instructor has responsibility for your child during that period of time. Allowing him to leave is unacceptable.

Although it is costly, a private lesson or a semi-private with one of his friends may be the only alternative, so that your son moves at his own pace and remains interested.

I still think that turning him over to a Certified Ski Instructor is the better way to go.

Thank you for the input! I appreciate suggestions.
1. Will try this---good suggestion

2. With me I don't threaten unless I plan on following through...this is one thing he has always had....my word is gold...no matter how difficult it may be

3/4. Responds well to both of these

5. I am....transitioning from straight skis to shaped...

6/7. Been working on these for years....gifted/ADHD bad combo not to mention he is a perfectionist and refuses to do something if he doesn't think he is good at it.

Final thought! I think you hit the nail on the head with this one, the question is how do I help him overcome this....Private lesson is the only thing I can think of, he is socially inept and still doesn't have any true friends yet (another thing we are working on) does really well with adults that give him the attension he things he is "entitled to".

That said, my son is not a trouble maker or a bad kid; just a child that is trying to find his way on his own...for some reason he thinks he has to do things independently and does not know how to take direction from individuals who have not proven themselves "trustworthy and solid", he will take direction from me (in this case I don't want to be the instructor). This comes from having a father with a TBI (diagnosed w/brain cancer when he was 3) who never follows through, he assumes this is normal and I am the rarity, thus he tests all adults and manipulates those who allow it.

As far as the ski instructor that allowed him to walk off on his own...I agree this was not right (group lesson 5-6 other never ever's) young guy.....will talk with ski school about an older more experienced male who will be more attentive and hopefully bond with him in the process.

Thanks again for the input, I wouldn't have posted if I didn't want it!

 

[mountainxtc]

Positive reinforcement has always worked for me... e.g. "If you listen to your instructor and make good turns you may ski with me after the lesson" or "If you show me you can ski in control on blue runs, I will ski them with you". And it's great that you follow through. So many parents don't. If he behaves all day only to misbehave as soon as he skis with you, put a stop to it fast, and give him a time frame (e.g. 2 or 3 days in a row) that he will have to behave for before you try it again.

In my experience a kid always listens better with an instructor than with a parent. It's great to find an instructor that the kid looks up to and wants to impress. A young male would probably do the trick. 10 is getting close to the age where they want to look good in front of their peers. Given his reluctance to try something he won't be the best at in front of them, getting him private lessons until he is at par with the better kids in his group would be a sound decision.

Luckily, kids are predictable and experienced instructors have seen it all before. Confidence in social situations often comes as a result of feeling comfortable in them. Confidence in his skiing ability should spill over to confidence interacting with his peers. If you can, craftily plant the seed in his mind that skiing fast in control is way cooler than bombing straight, out of control. Kids often do this to show off. Let him overhear conversations between people he respects talking about seeing an out of control straightlining kid and how lame that was. Or get some older kids or adults to talk about how cool it is to make short turns, something that will get him thinking about other, more in control way to show off.

Most of all, good luck!! this is a tricky one but it sounds like you have a great attitude and will be able to nip this in the bud.

 

[vickie]

When my sons refused to take direction or follow the rules, I took off their skis and locked them in the car.

you mean, the skis ... or the boys?

 

[OneOutdatedDiva]

All good advice! Just a word to the wise taking away privileges from this boy doesn't work he's a loaner so he's happy reading a book etc...I take away my attention and that is the key with him.....

Already had a talk with him this afternoon. Asked him if he was up for a challenge. He calls the slalom coarse he saw yesterday the agility coarse...I thought this was cute. Anyway they had one set up on the bunny hill and I told him that I didn't think that he was capable of making it through the coarse w/o missing a gate and he said he's up to the challenge...(He wants to prove me wrong and I desperately hope he does)

Then we talked about lessons. I told him he has one more chance to apply himself in a lesson. If he is successful he will get to ski with me when it's over and try the "agility coarse" (he really wants to do this). If he doesn't apply himself or comply with the instructions given he will not, I repeat will not be allowed to ski any longer. If he is successful, the lessons will continue and we will ski together.

The most interesting part of the conversation has to do with him carrying his own equipment. He hates to carry his boots and skis from the car (understandable b/c he doesn't have a bag).....torcher...maybe but here is my response to that...I am not going to expend resources for something that you take lightly....take responsibility, show me you care and are willing to suffer doing the things you'd much rather not do such as carrying your equipment and doing lessons then I will buy you the bag of your choice to carry that equipment in.

We went online and he picked out the High Sierra Trapezoid Boot Bag..He is excited and can't wait to prove me wrong...I hope this works. I want one of those bags too! I'm still using my old one. I don't know, but we will see next weekend!

 

[Jilly]

Good luck!! Hope it works out.

 

[mountainxtc]

sounds like you are well on your way to success!! just a tip for carrying boots - velcro the 2 power straps together and sling them over your shoulder, one boot hangs behind you and the other in front - just like having a shoulder bag!

 

[OneOutdatedDiva]

Thanks for the tip, his don't have the power straps...mine do but not giving him my bag...he's gonna have to suffer.

Keeping my fingers crossed thanks for well wishes!

 

[geargrrl]

you mean, the skis ... or the boys?

lol, the skis. Tho there were those days when I wanted to lock the kids in the car, no doubt about that!!

 

[Kano]

Thanks for the tip, his don't have the power straps...mine do but not giving him my bag...he's gonna have to suffer.

Keeping my fingers crossed thanks for well wishes!

Perhaps until he's earned a bag, he can devise some kind of carrying system with something he's got around -- another good challenge for him!

Karen in Boise

 

[RuthB]

Perhaps another idea for a future reward if your son is attracted to the agility course and that might also encourage acceptance of lessons and ski conduct code is "once you attain a certain skill level/competency then you can have terrain park lessons". Not only might this be an encouragement it means that he may not have to curtail the thrill seeking, but rather undertake them in an appropriate environment and it is fun. (I will admit that this idea is selfishly motivated, but as the mother of a slight six year old nothing irks me more than older children/teens skiing with a lack of respect for others - while your son may be skiing with enough control on greens not to injure himself what about his fellow skiers and boarders. I am not saying this is the case with your son, but it does sound like a real possibility from what I read in yor comments).