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Staggered at people teaching their own kids

gardenmary

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
We are towards the last leg of our 14-day Utah trip (Snowbasin).....we've had a wonderful time, DH (who is fighting cancer) has been able to ski most of those days, and I've finally progressed solidly to blues (which led to my DIN getting reset after losing a ski 4 times down the mountain!).

However, what I saw today absolutely floored me. I expect to see adults with their little ones (say 3-4 years old) on ski leashes ON THE BUNNY SLOPE. I do not, under any circumstances, expect to see them on medium-to-high intermediate slopes.

But there they were. These are considerable steeps, they are NOT slow ski zones, yet there are kids who can't ski on their own being "driven" down by their parents!!!

It's bad enough that these people don't value their kids' lives enough to invest in at least a group lesson for them - and are trying to teach their own kids - but to take them down a high blue on a leash??? Am I missing something???

It took a considerable amount of self-control not to just pull up to some of these people and tell them off. It probably wouldn't have done any good anyway.

Does this happen everywhere? This is the first time I've ever seen this and I was speechless.

Oh well, at least our trip has been fantastic! Full report when we get home.
 

Jilly

Moderator
Staff member
Try being an instructor and seeing that. Floors my imagination all the time. That and the BF teaching the GF!! Agrhhh

Today I saw a Dad and little one, not on a leash, on the front pitch here at Tremblant. It's icy!! She's all of 2 ft tall. Dad is saying, just turn, just turn. Off to the side is a narrow, but shallow run out slope just for this. It was put there for reason. "Dad you just think it's faster to go down the front, instead of the side!!"

So it's everywhere. I haven't seen too many leashes here this year. But I know they are out there!!

Glad you're having a good time. Good luck with the rest of the "stuff"!
 

geargrrl

Angel Diva
yes, you are missing something.
While there are clueless parents everywhere, I would like to hope we were not them.

Our kids were on leashes, on every blue run our mountain has to offer. DH is a super strong lifetime skier, and a ski patroller to boot. The kids learned wedge turns with the help of the leashes, and it was a great progression for the whole family. We saw no safety issue with it,and neither does our mountain management/skipatrol/ski school so I don't get what your problem is, was. Our lift operators are way used to families and little kids.

Another reason for leashes is that the ski schools don't take kids until five or six. On our mountain the patrol kids are typically out with their parents by age two, on leashes, and not parked in day care. Once the kids are old enough for ski school, there they go, into group lessons, or into the racing program.

I think leashes are awesome, and I see no problem with progressing off the bunny hill. I see a lot of parents doing way more stupid things: backwards skiing, hold the poles, holding the kid between thier legs, or backpacks. I don't know where you are but at the many family resorts around here I see it all the time.

Well I'm sure I will make someone mad with this, but it worked for us and for a whole lot of families I know. If the parents are strong and in control, what's the problem? it's not like the bunny hill is less collision and or injury prone than any other part of a mountain.
 

gardenmary

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I think that what I saw today may have been the other side of your experience - you guys sound like you were very much in control, but the parents I saw were barely in control themselves and their kids were wiping out many times. Of course, we saw parents pulling all the other stunts you mentioned as well, so maybe it was just one of those days. We had our fair share today of people wedging all the way down the mountain (not on greens either), people shooting out into merging trails without looking, and people stopping (either intentionally or not) in the middle of a cat track around a sharp turn and not moving out of the way of traffic.

I completely agree that if the parents are in control, the kids are progressing, and no one else's safety on the slopes is being unreasonably compromised, then the leash can be a great learning tool. Also, I would say that a patroller out with their kid on a leash is a totally different situation than a 7-day-a-year skier out with their kid on a leash, with control being a real question.

But I guess that's what you get on a busy day! Thanks for the different perspective, that's what I was hoping to hear.
 

MaineSkiLady

Angel Diva
Like GG, we were part of a pro-skiing extended family - in our case, ski school. And like GG's situation, many instructors had their kids out there before they were eligible for seasonal programs. The difference was that this pre-dated leashes AND magic carpets, so lots of creativity was required. (I think leashes made their appearance a couple of years after my son got going?)

The general consensus is that leashes should be VERY temporary in implementation. (at least by what I've read)

Not sure....my son skied away by age 5, and I haven't seen him since. :laugh:
 

gardenmary

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Not sure....my son skied away by age 5, and I haven't seen him since. :laugh:

This made me laugh - that would be my son too, who started at 11 and has been dusting us ever since. He'll ALWAYS dust me, but he's now able to beat DH, even when DH is skiing at his optimum.

I really appreciate the responses - I guess what I was more surprised by was that the parents didn't seem to be that much in control themselves. I'm going to ask my instructor at Snowbasin what their take is on it - I don't want to be judgmental, since I have only been at this two years.
 

EmilieW

Certified Ski Diva
Slightly off topic but I've been meaning to ask--how do you guys teach your kids? We are kind of at a loss--we have 3 kids, 3,5 and 7. We've had the 5 and 7 year old in lessons, thinking that by day 2 or 3 they'd have it down...well that hasn't happened! They seem to enjoy it, but my 5 year old daughter still can't turn. My 7 year old switched to snowboarding this year, so he's just beginning that...but anyway, there's no way I can envision us skiing/boarding as a family any time soon and lessons are so expensive! We haven't even begun w/ the 3 year old yet..but maybe we should get him out there and use a leash while the other 2 are in lessons.

Anyway, it just doesn't seem that the lessons are "working"...maybe Loveland isn't the best place to learn, or maybe my kids just aren't naturals :smile: How long does it typically take this age kids to "get it"? And what can I do to help them? I think my oldest son will get snowboarding quick, it's just a matter of going more often...but my daughter and 3 yr. old will be tough...and we are outnumbered, I feel overwhelmed just getting everyone TO the mountain :smile:

I see people w/ kids on leashes all the time and think it looks like a great idea...was actually going to get one to try it w/ our kids. I haven't seen anyone out of control w/ their kids...yet...
 

Slidergirl

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I had a father ski up to my lift on Sunday with his little kid skiing between his legs and INSIDE A HULA HOOP. Dad was using the HH as a "leash" for his kid. I wasn't at the First Time lift, either. The lift I was at (Crescent) doesn't usually get beginners.
I'm of the opinion that, as long as the parent is a competent skier can ski with their kid under harness as long as they are on slopes that they can control the situation. Stay away from the runs where people get out of control (including those where the testosterone-impaired think they can ski without appropriate ability). You're skiing with your child, he/she's not skiing with you. Think about that distinction.
As for the teaching of significant others (BF/GF/spouse), JUST SAY NO. Bad idea. I especially hate the ones who aren't all that great at the sport themselves thinking they can teach their SO. Talk about an accident just waiting to happen!!!
 

geargrrl

Angel Diva
Slightly off topic but I've been meaning to ask--how do you guys teach your kids? We are kind of at a loss--we have 3 kids, 3,5 and 7. We've had the 5 and 7 year old in lessons, thinking that by day 2 or 3 they'd have it down...well that hasn't happened! They seem to enjoy it, but my 5 year old daughter still can't turn. My 7 year old switched to snowboarding this year, so he's just beginning that...but anyway, there's no way I can envision us skiing/boarding as a family any time soon and lessons are so expensive! We haven't even begun w/ the 3 year old yet..but maybe we should get him out there and use a leash while the other 2 are in lessons.

Anyway, it just doesn't seem that the lessons are "working"...maybe Loveland isn't the best place to learn, or maybe my kids just aren't naturals :smile: How long does it typically take this age kids to "get it"? And what can I do to help them? I think my oldest son will get snowboarding quick, it's just a matter of going more often...but my daughter and 3 yr. old will be tough...and we are outnumbered, I feel overwhelmed just getting everyone TO the mountain :smile:

I see people w/ kids on leashes all the time and think it looks like a great idea...was actually going to get one to try it w/ our kids. I haven't seen anyone out of control w/ their kids...yet...

Sounds like your family is a great candidate for ski school. Keep the older ones in lessons, but if you can do a six week package at least to get them dialed in. Our city parks dept offers great packages, so look around. For the younger, it's either a ski/play daycare program, or do it yourself on tethers. Which, as is mentioned, you should be a strong skier with an understanding of the principles to do.

Otherwise, you'll just be in herd management mode.:smile:

Leashes, edgie wedgie and so on are all tools, and are no substitute for not teaching the basics.
 

geargrrl

Angel Diva
I don't want to be judgmental, since I have only been at this two years.

Two years? That's pretty new for skiing. As you stick with it, you'll truly be amazed in both good and bad ways by what you'll see on the hill. Some if it's just stupid behavior, some of it is truly unsafe, or ignorant... but also there are plenty of inspiring moments too. Read this board often enough and you'll hear about lots of it, the whole spectrum.

For myself, I find it just takes too much energy to get worked up about other people's stupid behavior that I have no control over. If there's something truly dangerous, I inform someone who has some power, otherwise I just try to ski defensively and be safe on the hill.

Remember the serenity prayer? ..."accept the things I cannot change, the courage the change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.." Works for skiing, too.
 

gardenmary

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Two years? That's pretty new for skiing. As you stick with it, you'll truly be amazed in both good and bad ways by what you'll see on the hill. Some if it's just stupid behavior, some of it is truly unsafe, or ignorant... but also there are plenty of inspiring moments too. Read this board often enough and you'll hear about lots of it, the whole spectrum.

For myself, I find it just takes too much energy to get worked up about other people's stupid behavior that I have no control over. If there's something truly dangerous, I inform someone who has some power, otherwise I just try to ski defensively and be safe on the hill.

Remember the serenity prayer? ..."accept the things I cannot change, the courage the change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.." Works for skiing, too.

Exactly! That's why I wanted to ask here, since there is so much experience and I needed some perspective. What I find really inspiring is either end of the age spectrum - 8 year olds skiing blues and blacks with skill and confidence, and 80 year olds doing likewise. Seeing folks like that can really make up for the bonehead moves observed elsewhere. I figure it's up to me to understand the norms of the culture of the sport, then make sure my skills are commensurate with the hill I'm skiing.
 

ann k

Certified Ski Diva
Emilie - I would recommend ski lessons for the 3 yr old. You may be surprised how quickly some kids learn (so much variation). We started our daughter in ski lessons at 3 (and did a very small amount of teaching ourselves prior to that) and now this winter at age 4 she can go comfortably down just about any blue and green hills in our area. We don't ski a lot but signing up for lessons makes you ski weekly at least for a few months. Ski lessons are sooo much better than teaching them yourselves. My daughter does not like to listen to us for instruction but she listens very well to her ski instructors. Even now when we ski with her we do it with little to no instruction (unless it is a safety concern).
 

Kano

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Ski lessons are sooo much better than teaching them yourselves. My daughter does not like to listen to us for instruction but she listens very well to her ski instructors. Even now when we ski with her we do it with little to no instruction (unless it is a safety concern).

Oh my gosh YES! I don't know if it's that the kids don't like to listen to "their grown ups," but they DO know how to work us. Our three year old grandson drove me absolutely insane, along with the physical pain I have endured ever since, when we took the boys up a few days before Christmas. The idea was to let Rion get used to being on skis, and on snow, and on a bit of a slope. He's not the sort of kid who just jumps into things and its helpful to give him an opportunity to dip his toes -- though it often takes a major shove to get him to dip those toes!

Our time on the hill with the little guy did pay off, in that he is more excited about going skiing than he's ever been about anything, but we could NEVER have survived the process of getting him wedging, turning, stopping, starting -- the last four mornings have been TOTALLY worth the $150! Now we can enjoy skiing with him, instead of being miserable on the hill...

He didn't know how to work teacher Ryan, but instead simply did whatever Ryan said, only complaining about his first chairlift ride, and only until he was actually on board. Now he and we will spend the next several outings happily shredding up the bunny hill.

Big brother just finished another session of ski school too, and the only worry we have there is that he loves speed -- he'll need the structure of the race program to help us enforce the rules of the runs! I've got too much sense to keep up with him, I'm afraid! (too bad he can't get into race school til next season, when he'll FINALLY be old enough!)

Karen in Boise
 

Robyn

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Big brother just finished another session of ski school too, and the only worry we have there is that he loves speed -- he'll need the structure of the race program to help us enforce the rules of the runs! I've got too much sense to keep up with him, I'm afraid! (too bad he can't get into race school til next season, when he'll FINALLY be old enough!)

Karen in Boise

Are you putting him in Bogus Basin Ski Racing Alliance? I'm an alum! And my dad was the head coach for 10 years.
 

Kano

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Are you putting him in Bogus Basin Ski Racing Alliance? I'm an alum! And my dad was the head coach for 10 years.

Yup, new name now, but I think it's the same organization I think they call it the ski education foundation or something like that now.

They've gotten new jackets this year, and really increased their visibility. I saw them out and about last weekend, and was impressed with what I saw -- prompted me to e-mail the organization for more info AND to compliment the group!

(I have this feeling that we're going to wish they would add a 4-6 year old program too)

Karen in Boise
 

geargrrl

Angel Diva
Emilie - I would recommend ski lessons for the 3 yr old. You may be surprised how quickly some kids learn (so much variation). We started our daughter in ski lessons at 3 (and did a very small amount of teaching ourselves prior to that) and now this winter at age 4 she can go comfortably down just about any blue and green hills in our area. We don't ski a lot but signing up for lessons makes you ski weekly at least for a few months. Ski lessons are sooo much better than teaching them yourselves. My daughter does not like to listen to us for instruction but she listens very well to her ski instructors. Even now when we ski with her we do it with little to no instruction (unless it is a safety concern).

where are you that the ski school takes them at three? Most don't take kids for lessons until 6, sometimes 5, or that has been my experience. I am not counting day care that takes them out for an hour or so.
 

Robyn

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
where are you that the ski school takes them at three? Most don't take kids for lessons until 6, sometimes 5, or that has been my experience. I am not counting day care that takes them out for an hour or so.

Around here they take them at 3 (must be potty trained though). Whey I read your entry I was thinking "Where is she that they don't take them until 5 or 6?"
 

Robyn

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Yup, new name now, but I think it's the same organization I think they call it the ski education foundation or something like that now.

They've gotten new jackets this year, and really increased their visibility. I saw them out and about last weekend, and was impressed with what I saw -- prompted me to e-mail the organization for more info AND to compliment the group!

(I have this feeling that we're going to wish they would add a 4-6 year old program too)

Karen in Boise
Gosh, that brings back such memories. If I recall they've torn down the building my dad and another coach built themselves one season. Wonder if any of the coaches were around back in our day? I skied with Dane Spencer (we're the same age) through the time I was there. Aw, you got me all nostalgic.
 

geargrrl

Angel Diva
Around here they take them at 3 (must be potty trained though). Whey I read your entry I was thinking "Where is she that they don't take them until 5 or 6?"

lol just goes to show how things are NOT the same everywhere.
 

marzNC

Angel Diva
where are you that the ski school takes them at three? Most don't take kids for lessons until 6, sometimes 5, or that has been my experience. I am not counting day care that takes them out for an hour or so.

Most of the areas in the Southeast start full-day ski school at age 4. One advantage of a little mountain is that it's easy to find a lesson group and watch from a distance or from the chair lift. I like that about Massanutten. Group clinics usually start age age 7 or 8.
 

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