SOS - feet pain in new ski boots? Bootfitters near Toronto, ON?

[hopefulskier]

Hello Skidivas!

Reaching out to this smart community for advice/recommendations. I went skiing for the first time yesterday in a pair of 2020 Atomic Hawx Prime 95W boots and my feet were absolutely killing me. Post-ski inspection found I bruised both big toes - the right is worse (completely blue). Even on the walk from the parking lot to the lifts, I felt numbness in my toes and pinching around my left foot lateral malleolus. Had to release all the buckles which helped somewhat, and I'd click them in again after getting off the lift. The toe pain really was noticeable after I skied a few icy Blue runs. Definitely disappointed because I've never had this problem with rentals.

I've done a lot of reading to try to self-diagnose and already thinking of a few issues:
1) My merino wool compression socks were bought for hiking and quite thick, so thinner socks (maybe my toe circulation was being cut off by a tight toe box).
2) I didn't purchase any insoles or footbeds for my current boots - doing that may help give more support.
3) Getting the boot punched out may help if the problem is too small a fit. But I'm worried this would worsen the problem if the boot was too big (hence my foot is sliding forward).
4) My technique - I'm too often in the back-seat when skiing (especially since I'm not yet comfortable on Blues).

Considering pursuing #1 and 2 before shelling out for a bootfitter to diagnose the problem, but from what I've read that may just be delaying what really needs to be done. Anyone ever experienced similar problems as above and manage to remedy it?

Anyone know a good experienced bootfitter in Toronto/southern Ontario who can help diagnose and fix fit problems? I'm desperate at this point. Read the Bootfitters Canada thread here on Skidiva but most suggestions are in Collingwood. Sign of the Skier has come up. Live in Brantford but frequently visit family in Toronto. Willing to drive but hoping to keep the commute under 2 hrs roundtrip. I realize it may come down to having to buy new boots - as an advancing beginner skier (and someone who hates waste/over consumption) really hoping to avoid that.

If you've gotten this far - thank you for reading. And thank you in advance for your help!! Grateful for this group.

 

[Iwannaski]

I’m not the expert you’re seeking, but let me help you with a quick check.

When you take the liner out of the boot, so it’s just the plastic shell… and then put your foot in, how many fingers can you get between your heel and the back of the boot? That will tell you if the problem you’re solving is boot too big (suggest calling it a learning experience and moving on to properly fit boots) or boot too small (socks and bootfitter may be helpful).

Directionally, what street shoe size do you wear, and what boot size did you get?

(My working hypothesis is that your boots are too big, only because it sounds like you bought online - no existing bootfitter - if you use traditional sizing charts, I think boots tend to be big, based on EVERYTHING I’ve learned both here and in practice)

 

[Iwannaski]

Oh, and one more note… I have experienced excruciating pain in ski boots. It was 2002, and I was wearing new boots that I’d bought with help from a sales guy at a ski store. They were so uncomfortable they didn’t make me want to ski. I’d be limping by the end of the day, nearly in tears.

About 18 years later and after a long ski break, I was going to wear them to bridge a gap because there were no boots available in my size. I’d had 2 kids in the interim and my feet had grown about 1/2 a size to a full size. I thought I would die in my old boots. They were MORE comfortable. I could ski longer and my feet didn’t kill me.

I have new boots in that same shell size now, and they are a DELIGHT. The rest of me gives out before my feet.

For reference, I wear a size 10 street shoe and a 24.5 boot.

 

[liquidfeet]

@hopefulskier, let's find out some more about your new boots.
1. Are these the first boots you've ever bought?
2. Did you buy online, at a big box store, or at a bonafide ski shop?
3. Same question others have asked: what's your shoe size, and what size is the boot?
4. The pain, as you already know, may be because the boot is too tight, which would be good since it can be altered to accommodate your toes and malleolus by a bootfitter who knows what they are doing. Or the boot can be too big, in which case your foot is moving around nside and banging against the walls. This may not be able to be fixed, depending on things known by good bootfitters who look at your foot and at how the boot fits.
5. A DIY check, as @Iwannaski mentioned above, is to remove the liners, put bare foot inside and slide toes as far forward as possible. Stand with weight on the foot. Stick fingers down inside the boot behind the heel. One index finger is good. Two fingers means the boot is too long. If you've followed instructions about sizing online, you may very well have chosen a boot two sizes too long. This is common.
6. Wait, there's more. Boot fit is three-dimensional. You need to have the right height over the forefoot ("volume"), the right width, and the right length. And the cuff needs to fit your lower leg in several ways. Meaning, other things besides the length could be too small or too big.

Keep asking questions here.

 

[Jilly]

Yes to 1 and 2. Ski specific socks. Superfeet for the boots. This stuff you can get at Sport Chek.
So bruising on the toes.....either the boots are too big and you're sliding forward. Or the toe box is too narrow, or not shaped right for your foot. I've had the toe box reshaped on both boots....Atomic Hawk's 100.

As for 4 - get a good lesson with the right reminder to change your skiing. I had one this week. Bumps are my nemesis. It took a couple of bumps, then I heard the voice....Jill, quit shopping for bumps.

I'll see if I can get some names for you. West end of TO?

 

[hopefulskier]

Thanks so much everyone for your thoughtful replies! You are all amazing.

Okay - did the shell fit like advised, and I can fit 1.5 comfortably maybe two fingers in barefoot.

To answer your questions:

1) Yes - these are the first pair of skiboots I've ever owned. It's a size 22-22.5 Atomix hawx prime boot - I normally wear size 6 street shoes. In rentals I was often given 23.5 (a lot of places don't have smaller boot sizes) and never had issues so was quite disappointed these ones were so painful.

2) Bought online (rookie mistake!!). For more context: went to Corbetts in Oakville on a busy weekend. Was fitted for size 22.5 in Atomic Hawx Prime. I wasn't completely happy with the fitting process - the salesperson seemed very green (needed his manager double-check) and their stock was so low so there weren't many options to try. Unfortunately I didn't find the time to see another fitter. When I saw the slightly older 2020 Atomic Hawx Prime on sale on their website I pulled the trigger and purchased them in 22.5 size thinking the fit should work. Unfortunately Corbetts' fit guarantee only applies to non-discount boots bought in-store.

3) Any recommendations for good pair of thin ski socks that are still insulating?

Jilly - thank you! West end of Toronto would be great! My family who I visit often live in North York and Richmond Hill, so north would also work

 

[Iwannaski]

I can ONLY ski in smartwool PhD light socks. I used to have a pair of Head ski socks with a slightly padded shin, the last time I skied in them, it was TERRIBLE. I will only ski in these socks now, because I am a diva.

You can often find them on sale at Sierra, etc.

PhD® Ski Light|Smartwool

These ski socks help keep your feet warm and dry even on the longest days. Cushion where skiers need it most: on the shin and bottom of foot

www.smartwool.com

 

[Jilly]

I use Lorpen brand. Can't wear Smartwool.....I don't think a compression sock would be a good idea for skiing in any form. The boot compresses enough.
I had my foot into the new Hawk prime and found it the same fit as my 2016 worn out pair. So didn't go that route for my new boots.

 

[edelweissmaedl]

Needing thick socks to keep you feet warm is a misnomer. The liners are insulated and a thin wool sock should do it. When I think of my hiking socks, I think pretty bulky. Trying thin uncushioned socks would be a low cost test and would be want you want to wear if you end up needing to boot shop again anyway.

 

[liquidfeet]

I wear only thin or very thin socks in my ski boots. They don't have to be "ski socks."

I also wear compression socks, if I have the intestinal fortitude to pull them on in the morning. Takes time to work them up to the knees.

I never buy $20+ ski socks any more. Never. I'm a budget buyer. Thrift shops around here have tons of good socks, the ones with invisible toe seams, thin, tall, like new, wool, $2 each.

 

[hopefulskier]

Thank you everyone for the helpful advice! It sounds like thin wool socks and footbeds would be a good low-cost place to start

How does one go about choosing the “correct” footbed besides general size? Is this something I should do at a bootfitters with their input/ advice?

 

[Jilly]

There are a couple of "types" of footbeds. Superfeet should be available at Sport Chek. Take the foot bed out of the boot you have and take it with you for sizing. You'll have to decide if you want normal or high arch though.

Custom footbeds will cost you and those need to be done by someone trained to do them. There should be people at Sign of the Skier, Sporting Life, Corbetts, or Skis and Bikes that can do those. FYI, mine were $200 about 10 years ago.

 

[Iwannaski]

Socks - for sure.

But given that your boots are likely too big, I’d actually start with the bootfitter before you are too miserable. thinner socks aren’t going to make your too big boots magically better. Even a stock footbed would be trimmed to THIS boot, which is likely too big (in at least one dimension, maybe several). You need the ski socks (whatever you will wear when skiing) when you go to visit the bootfitter - so that step is critical.

This is a stitch in time saves nine situation, imo. I’ve equipped a family of 4 over the last 2 years, so I both get the expense and the frustration around all the different nuance that can go into it. But if you hurt your foot (and I have hurt both feet in the last 5 years, doing non-skiing stuff) it’s a real hassle to get it back to where you want it for daily living.

 

[hopefulskier]

That’s makes a lot of sense and totally agree. Although it’s nice to save some money, it’s completely null if my boots are so painful it deters me from skiing and advancing.

On that note - Jilly, do you have any suggestions for fitters here around Toronto? I’m hoping for someone who is honest and willing to work with me to modify the boots for a good fit, but can be upfront about it if it won’t work and the best course of action is to buy new boots. Some places I’ve heard can be pushy about going straight to buying a new pair

I called Sign of a Skier earlier today and they were empathetic. They quoted me $100 for a hour consultation to diagnose the problem. Definitely don’t mind paying the money - wondering if that sounds about right before any work is done?

Thank you all so much for helping me - a skiing newbie I am learning getting the right gear will be a process.

 

[Jilly]

Well it took a week or so, but the boot fitter at Sporting Life, Yonge and 16th, Richmond Hill got @hopefulskier sorted out for now. Now she needs to ski and see if it works.

 

[hopefulskier]

Yes!! Thank you everyone for your help. Very grateful to the kind and patient bootfitter who Jilly introduced me to - time to find a weekend to ski in them

 

[contesstant]

Yes!! Thank you everyone for your help. Very grateful to the kind and patient bootfitter who Jilly introduced me to - time to find a weekend to ski in them

So, I'm sure I'm not the only one who wants to know what they did--new boots, modifications to the Atomics, or? Boots are the WORST and I feel for you.

 

[Skidreamer]

You mention your technique and being often in the back seat. This used to be my fatal error. If in the back seat, some of the typical flow on effects are that your heel is not being pushed to the back of the boot, and often your toes will be pushed up against the top of the boot inside (goodbye big toenails in extreme instances - has happened to me more than once in the past), and of course the toes are likely to be cramped at the front regardless. Do you know how to do up your buckles on your boots in the correct order to maximise the correct positioning of your feet? This is a video that helped me out a lot:

I also wonder whether your boots are simply too small, at any rate the expert bootfitter will identify whatever issues are going on. I too have been through foot/boot/posture hell and my most serious issues are largely resolved. The solutions are out there for you somewhere - good luck!

 

[hopefulskier]

Ohhh thank you Skidreamer for the video! I've watched a few other videos from his channel and found it very helpful.

To answer your question, Jeff, the bootfitter remeasured my feet and it was a relief because he confirmed that my boots were probably the appropriate length and more or less the appropriate volume!

The biggest problem he thought is I didn't have footbeds. Then when I'm skiing, he tells me my feet lengths and also widens slightly, which can result in toe bang. So he estimated I had an average arch and he trimmed and fit pretty standard SIDAS footbeds in. My boots felt WAY more comfortable - still have to ski in them (the weather here in Ontario has not been kind to us lately for skiing). He also taught me how to buckle my boots properly - I definitely was doing the bottom and top buckle way too tightly.

The other thing we discussed is that the 2020 and earlier Atomic Hawx models have a slightly more narrow toebox, so if I'm still having issues after skiing in these boots with the footbeds in, a next step might be punching it out But that's TBD...

 

[Iwannaski]

YAY!!! That’s such a great story, @hopefulskier … I started with the standard superfeet beds and then went to custom because my feet are a bit weird and needed a bit more oomph. But they’ve really made skiing more fun. So glad you had an affordable and straightforward resolution!!!