Ski boot flex too much? Considerations when skiing in lower volume and higher flex?

[Starrynight]

I was wearing the Alltrack 70 Rossignal boot (102mm)last season and it started feeling very "sloshy" when I started learning bumps on blue runs. I was super lucky to accidentally get a private lesson at Heavenly and the instructor took me over high five and it was so much fun! I just wish i had more control. Another weird aspect is that I also figure skate with most of my single jumps- so I'm used to having lots of knee bend and close fitting skates for control.

And...so I drag myself to buy new boots. I find out I'm a low volume foot (they measured 90mm? I forget) which was no surprise since I have narrow feet and that the last pair were of course a size too long.

I'm a 5"3 130lb skier who the instructor said I should be comfortable with all blue terrain at heavenly. I haven't explored a lot of terrrain on my own and have been diligent in taking lessons to make sure I don't develop bad habits. I'm getting more comfortable skiing faster and prefer bumps over steep pitches.

I picked up a pair of nordica promachine 95 flex with the recommendation of one bootfitter but when I visited another bootfitter they asked me if I skiied aggressively enough. He also said it was veryyy borderline too tight but I can't figure out if he's sizing comfort fit. It's making me double guess whether 95 flex is too stiff. I was able to flex the boot warm slightly but definitely not as much as the Alltrack 70's. The new boots feel a bit snug but I figure that's normal until they break in.

Any tips for the first run on the slopes in the new boots or watch outs as I increase flex and decrease volume? My daily driver are a pair of the santa ana 84

 

[MissySki]

You will have much more control with appropriate volume and lower volume.. start slow on easy terrain to get used to how much more responsive the boots will make your skis. It will take smaller movements to do what you were doing in much larger softer boots previously. This might feel amazing right away, especially with your skating background, or it might be a little disconcerting to start.

I am similar in size to you, 5’4” 125lbs, advanced skier with low volume feet and my boots are 115 flex. Though flex rating from different brands are not standardized numbers and a bootfitter should take more into account than just height/weight/skier level in some cases as other anatomical features can make one require lower and higher flexing boots as well. But 95 sounds like a reasonable place to be at for your size and level overall in general to me. Boots can be made softer as needed, but much harder to make stiffer. They can also be made bigger (to an extent) and much harder to deal with a boot that is too big.

It sounds like you have not found a bootfitter you absolutely trust yet. Keep working on that because you will often need tweaks in your boots after some break in as well. Hot spots might develop or you might need some extra room here and there. Do you always ski Heavenly? If so, perhaps some Divas in the area can give recommendations for fitters as well.

 

[leia1979]

I've also got a low-ish volume foot--my bigger issue is very narrow heels that always lift. I'm in Salomon S/Pro 90 that have been modified to be lower volume. Nordica Promachine certainly seems like a reasonable choice for a narrow foot, and 95 doesn't sound crazy. They will feel different--I went from old comfort fit 60 flex Salomons to much better fitting 90 flex Salomons. My foot no longer moves inside the boot.

A lot of things impact what flex you need, like ankle flexibility, shin length, etc. If you are in the Bay Area, California Ski Company in Berkeley has excellent boot fitters. I saw John there, and he modified my Salomons and made custom insoles that correct my pronation.

If you're further north, there are some good fitters around the Reno/Tahoe area.

Edit: To respond to your last question, for me, getting to a stiffer, better fitting boot just made everything easier. I'm happiest on green runs anyway, so start on a nice short green to get used to them and make sure nothing is super uncomfortable.

 

[lisamamot]

I picked up a pair of nordica promachine 95 flex with the recommendation of one bootfitter but when I visited another bootfitter they asked me if I skiied aggressively enough. He also said it was veryyy borderline too tight but I can't figure out if he's sizing comfort fit. It's making me double guess whether 95 flex is too stiff. I was able to flex the boot warm slightly but definitely not as much as the Alltrack 70's. The new boots feel a bit snug but I figure that's normal until they break in.

The Alltrack would be sloppy for you with a narrow foot and, although flex is not standard, a 70 flex is definitely a very low flex.

What size ProMachine 95 did you buy and do you recall what your foot measured? Curious what the 2nd fitter felt was potentially too tight; if you are in it, not going numb, and it doesn't need significant modifications, it seems it could be a good boot for you. Also unsure why his feedback on the fit is making you question if it is too stiff since those are separate metrics. You will not be able to flex it as much as your previous boot, but I suspect you may be crushing the Alltrack.

It sounds like you are skiing the new boot, so if you need tweaks and are unable to return to the fitter that recommended the ProMachine, you would be well served to find a fitter you have confidence in.

 

[Starrynight]

I bought the 22.5 promachine and my feet are weird in that my two feet are almost half size difference. I don't remember the exact numbers.

My feet would go numb after a few hours in the Alltracks but we suspect I was overcranking it down to feel secure. The 2nd boot fitter gave me a "just wait till it's cold" as to whether I could flex the promachines enough. I've hung out in my new promachines at home either sitting or in an active standing position for ~45min and while it wasn't super comfy but no numbness or pain. It was just a lot harder to get my foot into the boot and out, but I think I figured out the pull the tongue to the side motion that makes it work.

The 2nd fitter mostly cautioned that it was too stiff and that it was borderline fit but to be fair it was a Sports Basement. I know I know...only listen to real boot fitters. We'll see how it goes the first day on the slopes!

 

[Chuyi]

Probably best to go to a bootfitter. My boots were sloshy & my feet were cold after a season. I had packed out the factory liner. I just got new thicker intuition liners. The boot is designed for skiing not walking around/active standing. The flex rating are not standard & liners can stiffen the boot.

 

[leia1979]

I bought the 22.5 promachine and my feet are weird in that my two feet are almost half size difference. I don't remember the exact numbers.

My feet would go numb after a few hours in the Alltracks but we suspect I was overcranking it down to feel secure. The 2nd boot fitter gave me a "just wait till it's cold" as to whether I could flex the promachines enough. I've hung out in my new promachines at home either sitting or in an active standing position for ~45min and while it wasn't super comfy but no numbness or pain. It was just a lot harder to get my foot into the boot and out, but I think I figured out the pull the tongue to the side motion that makes it work.

The 2nd fitter mostly cautioned that it was too stiff and that it was borderline fit but to be fair it was a Sports Basement. I know I know...only listen to real boot fitters. We'll see how it goes the first day on the slopes!

Half a size different isn't unusual at all! The upside of Sports Basement is they'll let you return if you don't like the boots. I was put in the 24.5 Salomon S/Pro 90 last March. I returned them in November when I got the same boot in 23.5 (in clearance at REI) instead. 23.5 is a much better fit for me.

 

[Starrynight]

Probably best to go to a bootfitter. My boots were sloshy & my feet were cold after a season. I had packed out the factory liner. I just got new thicker intuition liners. The boot is designed for skiing not walking around/active standing. The flex rating are not standard & liners can stiffen the boot.

I understand boots aren't designed for walking but I disagree that they aren't designed to be in an "athletic" stance used in skiing. Standing normally in was uncomfortable as the front of my toe brushed against the front of the liner.
I was wearing them off the slopes to see if the regular places where I generally get hot spots in new figure skates would get irritated. I get those areas punched out every time and they're generally pretty immediate. I figured I didn't need to waste a day on the hill with my ankle bone irritated. Thankfully nothing showed up yet but I'll be bringing my skates to Northstar this weekend in case a hot spot shows up on the hill and I can't handle a 2nd day of skiing. I don't think I can get quick modifications unlike the rink where I just step off and beg the tech to punch out immediately.

Half a size different isn't unusual at all! The upside of Sports Basement is they'll let you return if you don't like the boots. I was put in the 24.5 Salomon S/Pro 90 last March. I returned them in November when I got the same boot in 23.5 (in clearance at REI) instead. 23.5 is a much better fit for me.

And to be fair, my first pair was taken off the used rack at sports basement because I was trying on random boots while my partner was getting their board waxed so I definitely oversized myself. $100 dollars for the first boots was a gateway drug that having my own boots is akin to having my own skates vs rentals!
Sports basement mentioned they struggle with low volume boots because customers don't have the patience for breaking them in and return them immediately, which is probably why they generally oversize for a comfort fit. I totally understood because before my skates were heat molded and punched out, they felt so uncomfortable and tight! It took a few good skates to make them feel like home again.

 

[Nedgirl]

Probably best to go to a bootfitter. My boots were sloshy & my feet were cold after a season. I had packed out the factory liner. I just got new thicker intuition liners. The boot is designed for skiing not walking around/active standing. The flex rating are not standard & liners can stiffen the boot.

Have you had a shell fit by a boot fitter? Even when liners pack out, your boots should not feel sloshy. That sounds like boots that are too big.

 

[Chuyi]

Have you had a shell fit by a boot fitter? Even when liners pack out, your boots should not feel sloshy. That sounds like boots that are too big.

Yes I go to an expert bootfitter who is one of the very few woman in the biz. The stock liners were thinner & after 60+ days they packed down.

 

[marzNC]

And...so I drag myself to buy new boots. I find out I'm a low volume foot (they measured 90mm? I forget) which was no surprise since I have narrow feet and that the last pair were of course a size too long.

I'm a 5"3 130lb skier who the instructor said I should be comfortable with all blue terrain at heavenly. I haven't explored a lot of terrrain on my own and have been diligent in taking lessons to make sure I don't develop bad habits. I'm getting more comfortable skiing faster and prefer bumps over steep pitches.

I picked up a pair of nordica promachine 95 flex with the recommendation of one bootfitter but when I visited another bootfitter they asked me if I skiied aggressively enough. He also said it was veryyy borderline too tight but I can't figure out if he's sizing comfort fit. It's making me double guess whether 95 flex is too stiff. I was able to flex the boot warm slightly but definitely not as much as the Alltrack 70's. The new boots feel a bit snug but I figure that's normal until they break in.

Any tips for the first run on the slopes in the new boots or watch outs as I increase flex and decrease volume? My daily driver are a pair of the santa ana 84

Welcome! Good for you to sticking with lessons and learning more about how to find boots that fit well. It's definitely a process. My first good 4-buckle boots were a comfort fit but not the lowest flex made in that brand. Worked out fine for the first few seasons I skied regularly when my daughter was learning (only 10 days a season).

Flex ratings are not an industry standard. Each brand labels their line from a lower number to higher numbers. So 95 in one brand is not really the same as 95 in another. In general I think of 95 as a lower flex boot.

A better fit makes all the difference. The recommendations I've seen is that it's good to ski about 3 days to break in new boots. Of course, depends on whether those days are a few hours on greens/blues or a full day on blues.

 

[Little Lightning]

I'm a size 22.5 in ski boots and have struggled for years to get a good fitting boot. Besides the small size I have a taller instep, bony feet and narrow heels. One boot fitter described my feet as "Swiss Cheese feet" due to all the spaces.

One thing to be aware of is that not all size 22.5 boots are a true 22.5. I'm hoping this has changed over the years but some companies offer a 22.5 boot but it is technically a 23 shell with a thicker liner. So when looking for boots make sure the boot is a true 22.5 shell. Also, a 95 flex boot will give you a better fit due to it being more performance oriented. Lower flex boots lean toward the comfort end.

I ski this boot. https://outdoordivas.com/snow/ski-boots/mach1-lv-95-w-2019/ It's the best fitting boot I've ever had. The boot accommodates my higher instep but is narrow enough to hold my heel. Outdoor Divas will only sell 22.5 boots that are made with a true 22.5 shell so it is a good site to browse for suggestions. Size 22.5 boots are hard to come by . The best time to buy is early in the season when new stock comes in.

BTW, the boot is a PITA to get into due to the bone on the top of my foot. I warm them unbuckled in a heated boot bag. I wear Smartwool ski socks that have no padding across the instep but with some thickness in the heel to take up space.

 

[SnowHot]

I was wearing the Alltrack 70 Rossignal boot (102mm)last season and it started feeling very "sloshy" when I started learning bumps on blue runs. I was super lucky to accidentally get a private lesson at Heavenly and the instructor took me over high five and it was so much fun! I just wish i had more control. Another weird aspect is that I also figure skate with most of my single jumps- so I'm used to having lots of knee bend and close fitting skates for control.

And...so I drag myself to buy new boots. I find out I'm a low volume foot (they measured 90mm? I forget) which was no surprise since I have narrow feet and that the last pair were of course a size too long.

I'm a 5"3 130lb skier who the instructor said I should be comfortable with all blue terrain at heavenly. I haven't explored a lot of terrrain on my own and have been diligent in taking lessons to make sure I don't develop bad habits. I'm getting more comfortable skiing faster and prefer bumps over steep pitches.

I picked up a pair of nordica promachine 95 flex with the recommendation of one bootfitter but when I visited another bootfitter they asked me if I skiied aggressively enough. He also said it was veryyy borderline too tight but I can't figure out if he's sizing comfort fit. It's making me double guess whether 95 flex is too stiff. I was able to flex the boot warm slightly but definitely not as much as the Alltrack 70's. The new boots feel a bit snug but I figure that's normal until they break in.

Any tips for the first run on the slopes in the new boots or watch outs as I increase flex and decrease volume? My daily driver are a pair of the santa ana 84

Without going through the whole thread, and possibly repeating stuff others have said, let me say a few things that may help clear things up.

1 - The flex of the boot has very little to do with how aggressive you are and more to do with your ankle range of motion and leverage. (physiology)

2 - It sounds to me that the fitter who put you in the 95 flex boot was a bootfitter and the guy who asked about your aggressivness and that you were "borderline" in a boot too tight, sounds like a boot sales person. If the boot is borderline too tight, then a good fitter can make those adjustments.

3 - The Alltrack 70 flex 102 boot was killing you because you had to overtighten to get them snug enough to attempt to ski and you were overflexing them, which was likely causing thigh burn and burning on the balls of your feet. (ask me how I know)

4 - tips for first run on the slopes with new boots.... If you're in a performance fit instead of a recreational fit (which it sounds like you are and that is a good thing in the long run) wear knee high nylons for the first 5-10 times you ski so the boot starts to pack out to the shape of your foot with minimal coverage besides your feet. After that, go to a normal thin ski sock. Don't start with your buckles too tight, take a run then snug them up as your feet settle into them during skiing.

5 - If you can get to North Lake or have a desire to come to Reno, I'd be happy to check out your boots and how the fit is.

By the way, who did you go to in South Lake? I would recommend Powder House if you're in South Lake to ski.

I bought the 22.5 promachine and my feet are weird in that my two feet are almost half size difference. I don't remember the exact numbers.

My feet would go numb after a few hours in the Alltracks but we suspect I was overcranking it down to feel secure. The 2nd boot fitter gave me a "just wait till it's cold" as to whether I could flex the promachines enough. I've hung out in my new promachines at home either sitting or in an active standing position for ~45min and while it wasn't super comfy but no numbness or pain. It was just a lot harder to get my foot into the boot and out, but I think I figured out the pull the tongue to the side motion that makes it work.

The 2nd fitter mostly cautioned that it was too stiff and that it was borderline fit but to be fair it was a Sports Basement. I know I know...only listen to real boot fitters. We'll see how it goes the first day on the slopes!

 

[leia1979]

I totally understood because before my skates were heat molded and punched out, they felt so uncomfortable and tight! It took a few good skates to make them feel like home again.

Are you a figure skater? Mondor skating knee highs make great ski socks for new boots. I've been wearing them all season since I have several pairs for skating.