Since I know you all swear by bootfitters...

[mustski]

Yeah, I had a feeling. I just can't get them tight enough but was thinking that maybe custom footbeds might be a temporary fix. However, now that I think about it, I can't physically ratchet them down any tighter, there are still buckles left, so the are small enough. And after reading more boards, it really seems to be the flex that is the problem, they are just too soft. I just wasn't technically proficient on boots when I bought them to know better, I'm a pt barnum sucker I'd guess. I really didn't want to buy new ones but the evidence is stacking against that thought.

How many days do you have on your current boots? The reason I ask is that my brand new boots hit 40 days and then felt "between sizes"- too loose on my usual setting but I couldn't tighten them up more without pain. An extra 1/16" under my footbed took up the necessary room and fixed the fit. Also, if you have considerable days on the boots, it might just be the liners packing out. It's worth asking a boot fitter before resigning yourself to a big expenditure. Too soft? It depends on how much too soft. Again, something like intuition liners would stiffen them up a bit, and if your liners are packed out, you could buy yourself a few more seasons in those boots.

 

[artistinsuburbia]

How many days do you have on your current boots?

hmmm. I'd guess between 90 - 150 days. they aren't that old. I can't remember exactly when I bought them is the problem. It definitely feels like the liners have packed out. However my complaint isn't tightness, I can tighten them to the point of cutting my circulation off and they still ski loose, if that makes sense. Being an amateur in the gear dept, I just have always thought that I didn't buckle them tightly enough. Then on my last few days out, I had my DH tighten them down for me. I ended up with numb toes and lack of support still. I didn't have time to research that issue back then and now that I do, as I read more and more on here. I am still suspicious of the flex. How much do intuition liners cost? I'm thinking that I could get away with selling these to my neice, or one of my many beginner friends if I escape now before they get too used. How many days should one ski in boots before they are useless? Do they have a shelf life? I just assumed that as long as they were still comfy, they were good. And these are still comfy, save a bit of room at the ankle and the toe box.

 

[Jilly]

If you're that high in days, then just get new boots!

 

[MissySki]

Sounds like they are definitely packed out. Might be best to bring them to a bootfitter and have them recommend whether you should do aftermarket liners if the shell fit is good, still in great shape and appropriate to your skill level etc., or whether it's time to just move on to a new boot for whatever reason.

When I was between 80 and 90 days on my boots earlier this season I replaced the liners because things started getting sloppy and they feel great again. I'm now at ~110 days on the shells, so I'm thinking after next season it'll likely be time for a new pair if I ski between 50 and 60 days as I hope to.

 

[MaineSkiLady]

The "buckle down tight but still have foot play" is telling - says to me that this boot is too wide of a last for your foot. I wouldn't throw good money after bad by getting expensive liners. Sounds like it's time to start over (sorry). Ultimately, you won't regret doing this.

 

[artistinsuburbia]

The "buckle down tight but still have foot play" is telling - says to me that this boot is too wide of a last for your foot. I wouldn't throw good money after bad by getting expensive liners. Sounds like it's time to start over (sorry). Ultimately, you won't regret doing this.

o.k. so I looked up the last, it's 102. this translates to mm, yes? So I measured my foot, 95.25mm. Does that directly correlate to last? If so, holy too wide for me! I feel like such a stupid uninformed consumer. wow.

 

[MaineSkiLady]

o.k. so I looked up the last, it's 102. this translates to mm, yes? So I measured my foot, 95.25mm. Does that directly correlate to last?

Absolutely. (sorry) You should be in a 97 last (i.e., Lange) or 98, max.

 

[MissySki]

Don't feel bad, I think most people make the mistake of buying too big of a boot at some point whether it be too long or too wide or too high volume etc etc etc. Plus one measurement doesn't necessarily tell the whole story if you have any kind of a complicated foot like I do, there can be many things to consider. Definitely have a bootfitter check out your tootsies, and if you don't like your first pick and feel comfortable with them go to someone else until you do!

 

[marzNC]

Here are some comments about another ski shop with a boot fitter in the Pittsburgh area. From a few years ago.

https://www.dcski.com/forum/61631
https://www.epicski.com/t/99073/new-shop-and-serious-boot-fitter-in-pittsburgh-area

I know the OP so can ask for an update if you like.

Heard back from LaurelHillCrazy. As he mentioned in the threads, he's been very happy with Richard, who is currently a partner at Peak Ski. The entire family has gotten their boots from Richard. Richard apparently works out of the Gibsonia location but they are closed for the season except for some weekend hours for season rentals. LHC considers it well worth the drive. His impression of Willis is that there seems to be relatively high employee turnover. So that's why he started working with Richard when Richard owned Three Rivers a few years ago.

LHC suggested that if you decide to give Willis a try, ask plenty of questions related to getting the best performance for your ability. Also, be willing to keep going back for tweaks as needed to get the best fit possible. Seems like one important question would be to find out how long the boot fitter has worked for Willis.

 

[Jilly]

Just like your street shoes come in A-EE width, so do boots. You need a narrow last that's for sure. Then there is also the shape of your foot. Even though I'm a narrow last, I needed to blow out my Technica's to match my toe shape. Next pair are something different as per boot fitter recommendations.

 

[MaineSkiLady]

Plus one measurement doesn't necessarily tell the whole story

But a 95-and-change mm foot measurement in a 102 last most definitely does make for a big red flag. Tightened buckles, no reduction in volume? Bingo.

 

[maggie198]

Agree, the last is too big. A 102 last is made for a rather wide foot. A good bootfitter will look/measure your foot and make his boot recommendation based on the width of the last being appropriate for the width of your foot. No tightening or liner change is going to make this boot fit your foot well. Don't feel bad, most ski novices buy the shells too big, based on looking for comfort. I see this all the time when I visit my local shops - new skiers getting fitted for boots, saying "it's too tight, I need a bigger size." The sales "clerk" obediently gets them a bigger boot, I just shake my head, happy I'm not buying boots there!

I'd cut my losses on those boots, sell them at a ski swap, and start over with a more appropriate shell. You're abilities have improved, so it sounds like it's time to move up to a better boot anyway. MSL is right, you won't regret the money you spend getting a good fitting boot. You can start putting money away now, do a layaway, charge it, whatever it takes, but a GOOD fitting boot is the foundation for good skiing.

I had a too wide/too big boot to start with when I returned to skiing after a 25 year layoff. They were oh so comfortable! And recommended by skiing magazines, lol. But by the end of the season I realized that I had too much play, so they were not responsive enough. I still used them for a couple of seasons. Then I gave up and went the opposite way with the next pair, a snug, tight boot that was fine at first, skied well, but was a bit painful. My skiing was improved but I never could get rid of the pain, in spite of numerous fixes to the boots. Skied these 3 or 4 seasons, but developing Morton's Neuroma in my feet and my growing bunions made me finally give up on them. Got properly fitted finally - I had been in the right shell size but needed a slightly wider last than the second pair. Plus the new shells the bootfitter recommended had bump-outs formed in the shell for my natural foot protuberances. They also had Intuition liners, something my poor mismatched bunioned feet needed. We didn't even need to bump the shells out for the right foot bunion. Added to this custom foot beds and I was as close to boot heaven as I'm going to get. The new boots are extremely snug (and I only use the first buckle notch) without being painful. Every movement I make is easily transferred to the ski, they are so responsive. I've never regretted buying these boots, I regretted I didn't do it sooner before the bunions and neuromas became so painful.

 

[abc]

I regretted I didn't do it sooner

There're two sayings that goes hand in hand.

The first one: "buy right, or buy twice"

The second one: "You only find out what's really RIGHT for you by using a few ALMOST RIGHT ones, and use them for a while"

Basically, what's "right" is very individual and until you practice the activity for a while, you really don't know what your body really need. So for novices, it's pure luck that your first (or even second) try turns out to be "right". Most people aren't that lucky. Though you could improve your luck by getting as close to what you MIGHT NEED as possible on the first/second try. A good boot fitter helps on that "journey".

 

[artistinsuburbia]

@marzNC thank you! I think I will be headed up that way. It's not completely foreign territory but I think worth getting an opinion at both places. So I'll be making the 1.25 hour trek. So I told the hubby that I needed new boots and he just said, O.k. So wow, was not expecting that response.

So I have a pair of Salomon Divine RS 7 with a 102 last in a 24.5 for sale. Maybe I should keep them around for beginners, they'd be better than rentals? Having a place on the mountain, I encounter a lot of them...

Finally read all of volklgirls's posts on bootfitting. That is a lot of great info. Wish I would have read that sooner! So now that we've determined my last (my shell size was spot on at 24.4475cm) I need to determine flex. And I loved these boots because they hugged my heel pocket so well. So I know that I need a narrow hell pocket as well.

 

[marzNC]

@marzNC thank you! I think I will be headed up that way. It's not completely foreign territory but I think worth getting an opinion at both places. So I'll be making the 1.25 hour trek. So I told the hubby that I needed new boots and he just said, O.k. So wow, was not expecting that response.

So I have a pair of Salomon Divine RS 7 with a 102 last in a 24.5 for sale. Maybe I should keep them around for beginners, they'd be better than rentals? Having a place on the mountain, I encounter a lot of them...

Finally read all of volklgirls's posts on bootfitting. That is a lot of great info. Wish I would have read that sooner! So now that we've determined my last (my shell size was spot on at 24.4475cm) I need to determine flex. And I loved these boots because they hugged my heel pocket so well. So I know that I need a narrow hell pocket as well.

You're most welcome!

A good boot fitter will ask you enough questions about your skiing ability and interests that flex is not something you need to worry about beforehand. Plus it's not consistent across brands.

Whenever you want to buy boots, be sure to call first and make an appointment. Expect the process to take at least take a couple hours. Could be longer if you decide to heat mold something.

 

[maggie198]

A good boot fitter will ask you enough questions about your skiing ability and interests that flex is not something you need to worry about beforehand. Plus it's not consistent across brands.

This is totally true. A good fitter will put you into a boot suitable for your abilities. No nned to stress whther you need a 90, 95, 100, etc. And it's definitely not a measurement that's consistent across brands anyway.

Whenever you want to buy boots, be sure to call first and make an appointment. Expect the process to take at least take a couple hours. Could be longer if you decide to heat mold something.

Also, make sure you're getting the appointment with THE bootfitter - whoever's the expert in the shop. Also, this time of year they're not going to have the new lines in. September/October may be a better time. Many shops do not carry the more expensive boots in the lineup these days, they may need to order you in the most appropriate boot in the brands they carry. Nothing wrong with that, I'd rather my bootfitter get me the boot he thinks is right for my feet than sell me whatever he has on hand that may or may not work. You're only getting ONE pair of boots. You want them as close to perfect as you and he can get.

 

[abc]

Erh... dumb question, how do you find the "last" of a boot?

 

[mustski]

Erh... dumb question, how do you find the "last" of a boot?

Unlike the other info, it's not written on the boot. If your boot fitter didn't mention it, you can always try googling the make and model.

 

[abc]

you can always try googling the make and model.

I'm not quite understanding it. I thought for every make and model, there will be multiple sizes, and then for each size will have multiple "last". Is it not the case?

 

[marzNC]

Erh... dumb question, how do you find the "last" of a boot?

I'm not quite understanding it. I thought for every make and model, there will be multiple sizes, and then for each size will have multiple "last". Is it not the case?

Got curious. Never really thought about the size of a last before although I've heard the term. My feet aren't particularly complicated. Found a webpage that's a glossary of ski boot fitting terms.


Evo has a good stuff about fitting boots. That says the following about "last." Seems as though the measurement of a last is not consistent. Just as the length of a ski can be measured slightly differently depending on the brand.

Last
The length of your boot isn’t your only fit option. Like feet, every ski boot interior has a unique shape. Most manufacturers of alpine boots now make two or three distinct models or “lasts” to fit various types of feet. Generally, these lasts can be divided into narrow, medium and wide, and are based on the width of the forefoot measured on a slight diagonal across the metatarsal heads.

Narrow Last - Narrow lasted boots normally have a forefoot width of 97 mm to 98 mm, and are quite narrow through the midfoot as well. These boots are best for people with narrow and low volume feet.

Average Last - Average lasted boots have a forefoot width of around 100 mm (give or take a millimeter). These boots fit average feet well out of the box, and have a more relaxed fit through the midfoot and heel than narrow lasted boots.

Wide Last - Wide lasted boots are best suited to skiers with wider and higher volume feet, and typically have a forefoot width of between 102 mm and 106 mm.

If you know what width you normally take in a street shoe, you may be able to pick which of these forefoot models most closely matches your foot. An “A” or “B” width foot, for example, usually works best in a narrow lasted boot, while a “C” or “D” width normally fits an average last of around 100 mm. Skiers with an “E” or wider foot should look for a wider, 102 mm or wider last. As with boot lengths, the forefoot width is not an absolute standard among different boot manufacturers, and each has their own formula for determining other dimensions inside the shell, but this is a good general guideline.

Note: Traditionally, stiffer high performance boots were only available in narrower lasts, and expert skiers who happened to have wider feet were forced to simply endure the pain or work with a bootfitter to modify the boots before they could wear them. Beginner and learning skiers who needed a soft flexing boot often had no choice but to buy a wide “comfort” fit boot even if they had a very narrow and low volume foot. This is slowly changing, but expert skiers with very wide and high volume feet and new skiers with very narrow and low volume feet may still find a limited selection to choose from.

Irregularities in the shape of your foot, such as bunions, bone spurs, abnormally long toes or bony protrusions that are not “average” in size or location can also cause fit problems. These problems are often best handled by having an experienced bootfitter modify the boot to accommodate the problem area rather than buying the next larger size.

Boot manufacturers often build more than one model or flex using each last, so if you can find a boot that fits well but the flex isn’t right for you, look to see if it’s available in a softer or stiffer version.