Since becoming a 'coper,' I have also become a 'lesson-junkie'. I cannot sign up for the good deals mid-week, due to employment and all that. Still, 5 years after tearing apart my knee (ACL++), I am a better skier now than ever and probably fitter overall than I would have been otherwise. Yesterday I had my first of this season, in awesome conditions that showed me how much I could still improve, and with tips and drills to practice on low-snow days and on flats. It is true that a lot can be learned in so-so conditions, especially with a big goal in mind, at least for me.
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No ACL, no surgery, no problem - My new normal as a Coper
- Thread starter marzNC
- Start date
marzNC
Angel Diva
Did two clinics yesterday at Massanutten. Too good a deal when it's $35 for 2 hours with Level 2/3 instructors. The morning clinic was the Ladies Clinic with three others who are intermediates. I find those useful because I didn't take lessons as an adult intermediate. So it fills in some ideas that I know in some way but not consciously. The afternoon was with Walter, together with an instructor from Bryce and two from Mnut. The instructors are all trying to learn more about bumps since Mnut actually has a full line that takes more than two minutes to finish. It was spring conditions so the bumps were nice and soft. The Bryce instructor is an older woman from France. I had a very good time.
snoWYmonkey
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Laugh? Are you kidding. Wickedly jealous is more like it! I wish we had a non double black, wide, and apparently very smooth bump run at my home mountain. You are fortunate.
marzNC
Angel Diva
The difference is that there are often no bumps at all at Massanutten the entire season because there hasn't been enough snow or enough cold weather to have a base that is deeper than 20 inches. Average annual snowfall is about 25 inches, so mostly manmade snow on 100% of the trails. Don't think that's an issue at JH.
My coach was complaining earlier in the season that there weren't "blue bumps" for learning how to handle them. This was the first time that round, evenly spaced bumps were seeded on the lower half of Paradice. That's why the Level 1 instructors who are working towards Level 2 exams are spending as much time as possible working on the bumps. A couple have joined my clinic sessions when there weren't any intermediates showing up, which has been great fun. Many do not ski out west at all or even anywhere besides Mnut and have little experience on bumps. After the JH bump lesson and time on Paradice this season, that makes me better than they are on bumps. Shows what mileage on top of high level lessons can do in a short period of time.
This week there will be PSIA-E clinics and exams at Mnut on Feb. 27-28. I'm going to observe. Will be interesting to see what gets done on the Paradice bump line.
marzNC
Angel Diva
Since is continued interest in this thread, here is an update from @valli about her experience with successful ACLr surgery that was relatively complex. Click here for valli's thread for the full story. Every knee injury is different. The good news is that there are many ways to get back to skiing and whatever else is of interest, with or without surgery.
February 2013
March 2014
February 2013
March 2014
marzNC
Angel Diva
Came across a thread about skiing and knee replacements. I'm not expecting to be thinking about that in the future but seemed worth making a note. As with ACL injury recovery, it's pretty clear that every situation is different and doctors do not always give the same advice.
https://www.epicski.com/t/70774/skiing-with-knee-replacement-surgery
https://www.epicski.com/t/70774/skiing-with-knee-replacement-surgery
marzNC
Angel Diva
Skiing at Alta/Snowbird this week. Met up with a couple EpicSki members this morning. Turns out that the best skier in our little group, who is almost 60, blew out an ACL in 1998. He skis with a custom brace. He learned as a kid in the northeast and kept skiing all along. I'd classify him as an expert. Another case where surgery was clearly not needed in order to keep skiing at a high level.
marzNC
Angel Diva
Guess it's time to summarize my second season after doing knee rehab in the Summer and Fall of 2012. In short, I had a blast skiing in more places and more days than ever before. I did quite a few lessons with Level 3 instructors in a variety of places, large and small, private and small group. The pay off was putting it all together at Alta in April. That's when I could finally do short turns on steep groomers at speed, as well as handle bumps and steeps without much worry. Still have to think in harder areas off-piste, but not nearly as much as before. Plenty more to work on in terms of improving technique, but quite a noticeable difference from a couple seasons ago.
I finished with 60 days of skiing: 25 at small ski areas in the mid-Atlantic, mostly at Massanutten; 15 in the northeast; 20 out west on two trips where I flew out to SLC. Skiing at Whiteface, Gore, Tremblant, Stowe, and Smuggs certainly was good for improving technique. Didn't have to deal with too much ice, but learned something getting mileage on long and relatively steep groomers with east coast "hard pack." Ended up checking out a dozen places for the first time. It was nice to be able to meet up with Divas at many of them.
My daughter is at school in Lake Placid, NY, so I had plenty of excuses for driving up into ski country during ski season. She loves North Country School as much as I did. She spent the season learning to telemark, as well as enjoying cross-country skiing for the first time.
After a few sessions with my coach at Massanutten and mileage in the northeast, I was quite ready to work with snoWYmonkey at JH and Arthur Haskell at Alta. Also had a good time following BackCountryGirl as she carved with deliberation on groomers at Stowe. For the lessons at JH and Alta I I talked a friend or two into joining me. I learn a lot when a Level 3 instructor is teaching someone of a slightly different ability level or learning style. The session at JH had a focus on bumps. As I mentioned earlier, I also worked on bumps with Walter at Mnut. With Arthur, the focus turned out to be athletic stance and really linking turns in a variety of terrain. Later that day, the friend I did the lesson with and I skied down the bottom half of High Rustler after it softened up. Didn't expect to do that for another season or two. One outcome of the second lesson was that when I demo'd the DPS Uschi 85 (carver) at the Alta Demo Day, I could really carve!
It's fair to say that once I started traveling for skiing in late November, I wasn't doing much ski conditioning or cardio work. The short hike to get to Catherine's at Alta left me winded. Something to improve on for next season. I continued to do balance stuff all winter, even if just doing 1-leg shifting when waiting around. Used the SkiA Sweetspot every so often at home. Between better technique and being in pretty good shape, I didn't have any problems skiing all day long when conditions were good. Meaning it wasn't frigid or so warm that the spring snow was sticky.
At this point the only significant difference due to the ACL injury is that I am more willing to invest time and money in high level lessons. Not so much because of being a coper, but because I've learned how much easier it is to improve with the help of a very experienced instructor. Better technique leads to more fun in a greater variety of snow conditions and on more varied terrain. Since most of my ski trips are scheduled well in advanced, that makes a difference.
A few pics . . .
Whiteface in early December
Plattekill in central NY, 1100 ft vertical with more than one ungroomed trail to choose from
A little rock climbing at Snowbird, below the entrance was some nice soft snow left over from the April 5-6 snowstorm. Was with a few EpicSki folks who know Snowbird well, including a retired instructor, so following seemed reasonable. Called Door 3 in the Gad2 area.
On the lower half of High Rustler, reached by the Saddle Traverse not the High T
The Blizzard Black Pearls worked well in all sorts of conditions, in the northeast and out west. Even a powder day at Massanutten.
If you are interested, here are some trip reports.
Jackson Hole, Jan 21-24
Massanutten in February
Smuggs, Stowe for Diva East, March 2-4
Alta, Snowbird, April 5-17
I finished with 60 days of skiing: 25 at small ski areas in the mid-Atlantic, mostly at Massanutten; 15 in the northeast; 20 out west on two trips where I flew out to SLC. Skiing at Whiteface, Gore, Tremblant, Stowe, and Smuggs certainly was good for improving technique. Didn't have to deal with too much ice, but learned something getting mileage on long and relatively steep groomers with east coast "hard pack." Ended up checking out a dozen places for the first time. It was nice to be able to meet up with Divas at many of them.
My daughter is at school in Lake Placid, NY, so I had plenty of excuses for driving up into ski country during ski season. She loves North Country School as much as I did. She spent the season learning to telemark, as well as enjoying cross-country skiing for the first time.
After a few sessions with my coach at Massanutten and mileage in the northeast, I was quite ready to work with snoWYmonkey at JH and Arthur Haskell at Alta. Also had a good time following BackCountryGirl as she carved with deliberation on groomers at Stowe. For the lessons at JH and Alta I I talked a friend or two into joining me. I learn a lot when a Level 3 instructor is teaching someone of a slightly different ability level or learning style. The session at JH had a focus on bumps. As I mentioned earlier, I also worked on bumps with Walter at Mnut. With Arthur, the focus turned out to be athletic stance and really linking turns in a variety of terrain. Later that day, the friend I did the lesson with and I skied down the bottom half of High Rustler after it softened up. Didn't expect to do that for another season or two. One outcome of the second lesson was that when I demo'd the DPS Uschi 85 (carver) at the Alta Demo Day, I could really carve!
It's fair to say that once I started traveling for skiing in late November, I wasn't doing much ski conditioning or cardio work. The short hike to get to Catherine's at Alta left me winded. Something to improve on for next season. I continued to do balance stuff all winter, even if just doing 1-leg shifting when waiting around. Used the SkiA Sweetspot every so often at home. Between better technique and being in pretty good shape, I didn't have any problems skiing all day long when conditions were good. Meaning it wasn't frigid or so warm that the spring snow was sticky.
At this point the only significant difference due to the ACL injury is that I am more willing to invest time and money in high level lessons. Not so much because of being a coper, but because I've learned how much easier it is to improve with the help of a very experienced instructor. Better technique leads to more fun in a greater variety of snow conditions and on more varied terrain. Since most of my ski trips are scheduled well in advanced, that makes a difference.
A few pics . . .
Whiteface in early December
Plattekill in central NY, 1100 ft vertical with more than one ungroomed trail to choose from
A little rock climbing at Snowbird, below the entrance was some nice soft snow left over from the April 5-6 snowstorm. Was with a few EpicSki folks who know Snowbird well, including a retired instructor, so following seemed reasonable. Called Door 3 in the Gad2 area.
On the lower half of High Rustler, reached by the Saddle Traverse not the High T
The Blizzard Black Pearls worked well in all sorts of conditions, in the northeast and out west. Even a powder day at Massanutten.
If you are interested, here are some trip reports.
Jackson Hole, Jan 21-24
Massanutten in February
Smuggs, Stowe for Diva East, March 2-4
Alta, Snowbird, April 5-17
Attachments
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marzNC
Angel Diva
Haven't done the KOOS assessment in quite a while. Came out with 98 out of the possible 100. Considering that some folks who have ACLr surgery end up around 95 due to having some pain or swelling after activity, I'm very lucky. Of course, having relatively little collateral damage to the meniscus and MCL helped a lot. Pain was never an issue after the swelling went down after a few weeks. Nor did I ever have any instability after the first week after injury.
marzNC
Angel Diva
Have started up weekly sessions with my personal trainer again. This year I'm working with her in her home studio, which is working out well. We are mostly using the TRX. I definitely appreciate having a trainer who is watching my form. Especially for 1-leg exercises like lunges or squats. Not quite back to where I was in late fall, but getting pretty close. Already back to the weights I was using on the various machines at the fitness center.
These are two of the TRX exercises I did today. Managed to do 8 Atomic Pushups. I think last fall I did at least 12, perhaps 15.
I re-activated my indoor rock climbing gym membership. A major expansion is supposed to be completed in late summer. Looking forward to having more options. Plus there will be a cardio room. The climbing gym is only 10 min from my house.
These are two of the TRX exercises I did today. Managed to do 8 Atomic Pushups. I think last fall I did at least 12, perhaps 15.
I re-activated my indoor rock climbing gym membership. A major expansion is supposed to be completed in late summer. Looking forward to having more options. Plus there will be a cardio room. The climbing gym is only 10 min from my house.
marzNC
Angel Diva
Been spending a fair amount of time the last few weeks catching up on yard work. A bonus of being in better shape is that I don't need help spreading mulch. We have a big yard with a lot of area to cover. I use a small pickup as a huge wheelbarrow. For the trees, I toss the mulch with a pitchfork. Used to get too tired to keep going after a couple hours.
I gave the weekly strength pilates class at the fitness a try. Uses a stability ball or hand weights. After a couple classes, I decided I liked it. Also like the instructor. In general, pilates works for me.
One of the inspirations for doing more pilates was the videos posted this spring by Malin Johnsdotter. She has been a ski instructor at Vail for a long time. Also teaches pilates. Pay attention to the Intro video to hear her mention her age. The 7 exercises she demonstrates are only require a mat.
I first tried a basic pilates class after finding this short video with four exercises for ski conditioning. Definitely helpful to follow an instructor to get an idea of the general principles of pilates. Somewhere along the way I learned that Joseph Pilates was an avid skier.
I gave the weekly strength pilates class at the fitness a try. Uses a stability ball or hand weights. After a couple classes, I decided I liked it. Also like the instructor. In general, pilates works for me.
One of the inspirations for doing more pilates was the videos posted this spring by Malin Johnsdotter. She has been a ski instructor at Vail for a long time. Also teaches pilates. Pay attention to the Intro video to hear her mention her age. The 7 exercises she demonstrates are only require a mat.
I first tried a basic pilates class after finding this short video with four exercises for ski conditioning. Definitely helpful to follow an instructor to get an idea of the general principles of pilates. Somewhere along the way I learned that Joseph Pilates was an avid skier.
marzNC
Angel Diva
Realized that the second anniversary is coming up soon for the day I popped off an ACL in June 2012. Overall, I'd say more positive came out of the experience than negative. Mainly because I'm lucky to have had no pain or instability since the collateral damage (strained MCL, small meniscus tear that could heal without medical intervention) was relatively minor. My interest in continuing to improve as an advanced skier was a major incentive for getting in better shape and finding more ways to have fun exercising. The muscles in the ACL-deficient leg feel a little different than the normal leg when I exercise a lot, but at the same time that leg is actually a little stronger. Definitely balance better on the ACL-decificient leg.
This thread has just over 15,000 views. Never expected that. Hope those reading are learning something useful to their situation. The companion thread about the first few months after my injury has over 10,000 views.
This thread has just over 15,000 views. Never expected that. Hope those reading are learning something useful to their situation. The companion thread about the first few months after my injury has over 10,000 views.
Katie Santos
Diva in Training
This is a thread for thoughts about the next stage of my life without an ACL. For Months 1-3 after injury, look here. Bottom line is that I popped off the ACL in my right knee in early June 2012 (not skiing), have completed several months of formal PT, was fully functional for day-to-day living by Month 3, and am doing fun stuff I like to do (zip lines, walking for hours at the zoo, indoor rock climbing), so do not plan to have ACL reconstruction surgery. I could always put full weight on the bad leg, had minimal swelling, and did not have any major pain. The strained MCL and meniscus tear did not need medical intervention to heal. My surgeon agreed at Month 3 that no surgery is needed.
Most information I've read about ACL injuries are related to reconstruction surgery and rehab. So my musings are for people who wonder what life as a "coper" is like. I've learned that people who are "ACL deficient" were thought to fall into roughly three equal groups: copers, adapters, non-copers. A coper can do everything they want, including sports that don't involve intense pivoting. Adapters give up activities to avoid surgery. Non-copers continue to have so much instability that they have problems even with daily living. In recent years, most medical research is focusing on how to deal with copers and non-copers. Much has changed in the last 10-15 years in terms of how knee injuries are treated medically as more is learned, especially about the ACL and the meniscus.
Every knee injury is unique. Early diagnosis by a specialist, preferably including an MRI can help avoid further injury after an ACL rupture. This is my story and may or may not apply to someone else with similar injuries. My hope is to provide food for thought.
First ski trip to the local hill is scheduled for the week before Christmas. Big trip to Big Sky and Alta starts in late March.
How are you doing with coping? I am facing a similar dilemma, surgery or no surgery.....The clock is ticking, it is scheduled for July 24. Any updates or advice is appreciated!
marzNC
Angel Diva
Hello! Did you mess up your knee skiing?
Have you read my initial coper thread that has more about why I chose to work on being a successful coper instead of scheduling surgery? The PT exercises I did in the first few months are also relevant for someone pre-surgery. But best done with the guidance of a professional. There are a few other copers who posted their stories there.
For me, not having an ACL for two years has not prevented me from doing anything active that I like to do. Note that the collateral damage to the MCL and meniscus healed relatively quickly without medical intervention, which was what my ortho surgeon expected would happen. I have no regrets about being a coper. However, I have the luxury of being retired and having plenty of time to exercise on a regular basis in order to maintain a high level of strength and flexibility in not only the muscles supporting the knee but also the rest of my body. In the two years since the knee injury, I've gotten much stronger in general. Shows on the ski hill, at the rock climbing gym, and doing anything else physical. For skiing, I've been taking more lessons from very experienced instructors. Not really necessary, but has been great fun to be able to ski harder terrain on my trips out west.
marzNC
Angel Diva
A recent fun adventure was doing a zipline course in the NC mountains with my daughter. The Gorge is unusual on the east coast because they are using ZipStop, so no manual braking is required. Some hand over hand is required to get to the platform after you stop. It's a canopy course with a couple lines that are 1000 ft, with total vertical of 1100 from top to bottom. The course zigzags down the mountain. Still, rather neat that the vertical is the same as my home mountain, Massanutten.
Apparently top speed is around 30 mph. But I don't think lightweights get going quite that fast.
Full body harness means a comfortable ride, plus "handlebars" make it easier to keep from twisting
Lighter people have to work harder
Walked across the sky bridge without holding on, good balance exercise
Apparently top speed is around 30 mph. But I don't think lightweights get going quite that fast.
Full body harness means a comfortable ride, plus "handlebars" make it easier to keep from twisting
Lighter people have to work harder
Walked across the sky bridge without holding on, good balance exercise
marzNC
Angel Diva
Seems like rope courses are springing up in lots of places. Had a chance to check out the one in Asheville, NC today with my friend and her two kids. That's the family who have been learning to ski at Massanutten the last couple seasons. This "adventure" has five different courses set up on trees. Nice and shady for a summer activity. Two of the courses are for novices or younger kids. My friend and her 6yo daughter stuck to those. They were fine on their own after doing one course. I took her 8yo son to the third one at the end of the 2-hour session. That was definitely more challenging. Being higher off the ground wasn't really the issue. It was how the traverses were set up. I want to go back with my daughter to do the two hardest courses. Fun way to test balance and core strength.
Rope bridge on the Green course. Set up deliberately to be like a bridge that's missing some slats.
Kids over 7 can do the Yellow course with an adult. Crawling through the tube I was glad that I don't have any pain when on my knees.
A little hard to see, but the suspended logs were the hardest element. Only room for one foot on each and they swing a lot. A couple were not horizontal.
Two ways to go across the wires. I used both, one foot sliding on each one while using the hanging ropes/hoops.
My friend's 8yo son doing the wire the easier way.
Rope bridge on the Green course. Set up deliberately to be like a bridge that's missing some slats.
Kids over 7 can do the Yellow course with an adult. Crawling through the tube I was glad that I don't have any pain when on my knees.
A little hard to see, but the suspended logs were the hardest element. Only room for one foot on each and they swing a lot. A couple were not horizontal.
Two ways to go across the wires. I used both, one foot sliding on each one while using the hanging ropes/hoops.
My friend's 8yo son doing the wire the easier way.
Whoops daisy
Diva in Training
Hi to all especially marzNC for starting this incredible thread of information. I messed up my MCL and ruptured ACL on 3rd March 2014.....I have to say at first all I wanted to have done was a reconstruction. Various physios I visited said that I would not ski again with out reconstruction! However the second consultant surgeon I visited assured me that with good physio and hard work on my part surgery should not be my first consideration. So after weeks of trawling the web I found this site and have been motivated by you marzNC to get my knee back to near perfect and ski this coming season again. Have followed all your informative posts and really liked the bosu ball info, this was extremely helpful in building confidence on twisting movements. One question do you use a brace at all and if so which make?
marzNC
Angel Diva
Hello! Good to "meet" you although I wish it were on better circumstances.
Another way I gained confidence before getting on the slopes was the SkiA Sweetspot. I liked being able to do something with ski boots on. Really does help with balance. The bonus is being able to rotate and tip "on edge" without any worry about snow or skis or falling.
My home mountain is a small hill in northern Virginia. The first season I figured that having a brace was not worth the trouble there. A run from top to bottom takes no more than five minutes. There isn't any off-piste, just groomers with lots of snow guns. My surgeon had left it up to me. He did note that a brace would only help avoid hyperextension, not a twisting fall. As it turned out, one of the instructors was also a coper missing on ACL. He had gotten a brace, but only used it for a season (3 months). When I found out that his regular job was as a physical therapist, I decided to skip a brace. I opted to spend money on more high level lessons instead.
If a brace makes you feel more comfortable mentally, no reason not to get one. Should get a custom-fitted brace. There are a few companies. I think there are a few posts about it in my first Coper thread.
Have you tried the KOOS self-evaluation yet?
Whoops daisy
Diva in Training
I thought the skiA sweetspot looked interesting so ordered one, just waiting for its arrival. Will think about brace after I have used it. The cost is rather high and spending money on lessons with good instructor does seem like a better investment. I have also been informed (by French physios) that lots of ski instructors are minus ACLs but they all do very well despite this!
I ski in Europe mainly in the Three Valleys area, Val Thorens, Meribel and Courcheval.......however this year will be going lower for gentler slopes!
I have done the KOOS test and am improving all the time, atm am at about 80 so still some way to go but the healing appears to be getting quicker as time has gone by so fingers crossed I will make 95 score soon!
I ski in Europe mainly in the Three Valleys area, Val Thorens, Meribel and Courcheval.......however this year will be going lower for gentler slopes!
I have done the KOOS test and am improving all the time, atm am at about 80 so still some way to go but the healing appears to be getting quicker as time has gone by so fingers crossed I will make 95 score soon!
