Mashed Potatoes Tips

[ThatJessGirl]

Hi all! I’m a new skier as of this year. I’ve had quite a few lessons and have been out 14 times and have progressed to blues. I live in the Northeast with the usual conditions. I’m looking for some advice on skiing mashed potatoes. I hadn’t experienced this up until the other day when temps hit 40° on the mountain. I’ve done a bit of searching/Googling and the advice I’ve found is to go with a wider ski and get more aggressive and expect turns will be messy. I’m curious- could ski stiffness also impact performance in mashed potatoes? My daily drivers are my Volkl Kenja 88’s which are quite stiff. I’m wondering if maybe softer skis could lend better performance under these conditions. Thanks for any insight and tips!

 

[BMR]

For me it was the equipment. I had beginner boots (too soft) and skis and had a miserable time in mashed potatoes- I just kept getting tangled up. Once I upgraded to proper gear, OMG what a difference it was. My current skis are Santa Ana 88s, and they do well in mashed potatoes. I am not familiar with Kenja 88s and how they compare stiffness-wise.

 

[ThatJessGirl]

For me it was the equipment. I had beginner boots (too soft) and skis and had a miserable time in mashed potatoes- I just kept getting tangled up. Once I upgraded to proper gear, OMG what a difference it was. My current skis are Santa Ana 88s, and they do well in mashed potatoes. I am not familiar with Kenja 88s and how they compare stiffness-wise.

I have a pair of Nordica Speedmachine 85’s. I’m thinking first I should probably try spring wax to see how it goes as I’m running cold weather wax right now and the moment I encountered mashed taters my skis were uber sticky.

 

[nopoleskier]

Hi, welcome to the forum.. Yes try warm weather wax in the spring snow.
Kenja's should plow right thru. Stay on the shady side of the trail.
Make your skis be more of a platform- than 2 footed skiing. Sort of like skiing deep powder (which we rarely get on the East coast)

I love spring snow- make your own bump trail, be looser to ride the piles.

 

[WhyKnot]

Hi, welcome to the forum.. Yes try warm weather wax in the spring snow.
Kenja's should plow right thru. Stay on the shady side of the trail.
Make your skis be more of a platform- than 2 footed skiing. Sort of like skiing deep powder (which we rarely get on the East coast)

I love spring snow- make your own bump trail, be looser to ride the piles.

to @nopoleskier and all here: I am also confused about spring snow. I know I should probably start my own question about it but I am riffing off of what you say here about shady side. I was out yesterday and there were sheets of ice in the shade. Super scary on steep trails. And the snow was so variable (from sheets of ice to rocks on ice on hard pack (not sure what that snow is called) to softer stuff (that was nice) to slush later -- that I was actually happy to have my 76s instead of my 88s because I would rather err on side of narrower when dealing with challenging ice. I have been wanting to continue to progress which now means understanding snow conditions - enough to be safe aroud that level of ice. Any thoughts on how to better understand this snow? Go out later? pick a location facing sun? choose different resorts ? ( I was at Sunapee).

 

[elemmac]

Cheddar, cream cheese, salt, pepper, and garlic...a little paprika on top.

Oh not THOSE mashed potatoes.

What nopoleskier said about 2 footed skiing is spot on. Play with weighting both feet the same 50-50, 40-60, 20-80....see how it changes your turns in those conditions...find the balance that works for you. Also, play with stance width. If I'm trying to finesse my way through soft snow, my feet are closer together than when I'm carving on flat groomer tracks.

 

[Jilly]

Yes, it there is ice underneath then the narrow, or sharper ski is the tool. Couple of weeks ago we had fluff on ice. I kept to my daily driver and left the 88's at home. Glad I did. Now we'll see what Sunday brings, +5C with maybe 10cm of snow the day before. Might try the SA 88's that day.

Variable snow....closer platform, like powder. You don't need to edge in that stuff.

 

[WhyKnot]

I am by no means a pro (see my question above) but I watched a teacher on youtube that was suggesting bending downhill knee more in slush, so like both knees bent - and maybe because I am a water skier that feels comfortable to me - but yesterday -- in the gentle slope slush -- I was trying it and liked it. Lots of quality folks on Youtube (LOVE DEB ARMSTRONG!) but this tip was Ski TIps: Steve Young: Ski the Slush

 

[WhyKnot]

Yes, it there is ice underneath then the narrow, or sharper ski is the tool. Couple of weeks ago we had fluff on ice. I kept to my daily driver and left the 88's at home. Glad I did. Now we'll see what Sunday brings, +5C with maybe 10cm of snow the day before. Might try the SA 88's that day.

Variable snow....closer platform, like powder. You don't need to edge in that stuff.

This was interesting because it was not underneath ice - which I am used to around here. This was surface sheets of ice - like in the shade.

 

[marzNC]

One reason I was happy with treating my skis with DPS Phantom starting in 2018 was because of the glide when temps are over 40, or even over 50 or 60. Since my home region is the southeast, spring skiing conditions can happen in January or February, not just during the last few weeks of the season in March. I just skied when the air temperature was 60 by noon. I still had a good time at a small hill with a lot of sun exposure (Bryce, VA). I had wider skier treated with Phantom. In the past, I would need to wax pretty much after every ski day at my home mountain given that it was all manmade snow if I wanted the best performance. I usually would go 2-3 days before waxing at home between ski trips or simply pay for a hot wax.

Note that the Phantom kit costs about $100, so is only worthwhile for skis you intend to keep for a least a few seasons.

 

[contesstant]

"Bend the knee" is not a good movement pattern to get into. Flex the ankles, soften your stance, and keep your body forward, but if you focus on bending the knees, you will compensate by bending at the hips. Soften everything and you won't hit the piles and slam into them. Soft and round turns. Look ahead, stay relaxed, and the skis will plow through mashed potatoes easily.

One thing that has helped me immensely as I progress is to stop trying to ski everything so stinkin' fast. Find a comfortable speed that you can flow down the hill and not shop for turns. Count a rhythm if it helps. "1, 2, 3, 4" Something like that. Think about starting the new turn at about 2.5. If you start the new turn at 4, you're setting yourself up for Z turns. Don't expect it to be as easy on terrain that is challenging in steepness for you.

 

[liquidfeet]

There are two basic ways of making turns on soft, dense, heavy spring snow.

One: keep your skis on top of the snow and rotate them for a skidded turn as usual. If this is your habitual way of making turns and your skis sink, so will you. Skis embedded in heavy dense soft snow won't rotate. The snow will hold them in place and your leg will rotate to its disadvantage. To stay on top, use wide enough skis that want to stay up there. Or if your skis don't have enough float, put two feet closer together and ski two-footed, as if the two skis form one ski.

Two: If you are on narrowish skis that don't want to float on the surface and you know how to carve, do that. Tip skis up on edge - don't rotate them at all - and ride them through the turn. To carve in spring snow, no extra-narrow stance is necessary. Skis tipped on edge in soft spring snow will carve if they don't get stuck in sticky snow. You'll need to know how to do this ahead of time since spring snow is not the best for learning to carve.

People who habitually rotate their skis but who can't keep them on the surface of soft spring snow have a hard time skiing and fall frequently. Knees pop. Be careful out there once the snow softens.

Corn snow is a different story. It's easy on any skis. My words up there apply to dense snow that sticks to itself, not fresh corn which falls apart.

There are more accidents on spring snow than on hard winter snow.

 

[WhyKnot]

"Bend the knee" is not a good movement pattern to get into. Flex the ankles, soften your stance, and keep your body forward, but if you focus on bending the knees, you will compensate by bending at the hips. Soften everything and you won't hit the piles and slam into them. Soft and round turns. Look ahead, stay relaxed, and the skis will plow through mashed potatoes easily.

One thing that has helped me immensely as I progress is to stop trying to ski everything so stinkin' fast. Find a comfortable speed that you can flow down the hill and not shop for turns. Count a rhythm if it helps. "1, 2, 3, 4" Something like that. Think about starting the new turn at about 2.5. If you start the new turn at 4, you're setting yourself up for Z turns. Don't expect it to be as easy on terrain that is challenging in steepness for you.

I hear the distinction about "where to bend" and you say it way better than I do -- but is the ultimate 'look' of the body (similar to how I would water ski and how Steve Young show in the video where knees are "looking" more bent more than they would normally) correct? It felt so much more comfortable turning in that snow that way, and I felt like I had permission to weight my skis "a little" more balanced -- and yes I am sure I was using my ankles to get there.

 

[WhyKnot]

There are two basic ways of making turns on soft, dense, heavy spring snow.

One: keep your skis on top of the snow and rotate them for a skidded turn as usual. If this is your habitual way of making turns and your skis sink, so will you. Skis embedded in heavy dense soft snow won't rotate. The snow will hold them in place and your leg will rotate to its disadvantage. To stay on top, use wide enough skis that want to stay up there. Or if your skis don't have enough float, put two feet closer together and ski two-footed, as if the two skis form one ski.

Two: If you are on narrowish skis that don't want to float on the surface and you know how to carve, do that. Tip skis up on edge - don't rotate them at all - and ride them through the turn. To carve in spring snow, no extra-narrow stance is necessary. Skis tipped on edge in soft spring snow will carve if they don't get stuck in sticky snow. You'll need to know how to do this ahead of time since spring snow is not the best for learning to carve.

People who habitually rotate their skis but who can't keep them on the surface of soft spring snow have a hard time skiing and fall frequently. Knees pop. Be careful out there once the snow softens.

Corn snow is a different story. It's easy on any skis. My words up there apply to dense snow that sticks to itself, not fresh corn which falls apart.

There are more accidents on spring snow than on hard winter snow.

@liquidfeet I wish I could take lessons with you.

 

[ThatJessGirl]

There are two basic ways of making turns on soft, dense, heavy spring snow.

One: keep your skis on top of the snow and rotate them for a skidded turn as usual. If this is your habitual way of making turns and your skis sink, so will you. Skis embedded in heavy dense soft snow won't rotate. The snow will hold them in place and your leg will rotate to its disadvantage. To stay on top, use wide enough skis that want to stay up there. Or if your skis don't have enough float, put two feet closer together and ski two-footed, as if the two skis form one ski.

Two: If you are on narrowish skis that don't want to float on the surface and you know how to carve, do that. Tip skis up on edge - don't rotate them at all - and ride them through the turn. To carve in spring snow, no extra-narrow stance is necessary. Skis tipped on edge in soft spring snow will carve if they don't get stuck in sticky snow. You'll need to know how to do this ahead of time since spring snow is not the best for learning to carve.

People who habitually rotate their skis but who can't keep them on the surface of soft spring snow have a hard time skiing and fall frequently. Knees pop. Be careful out there once the snow softens.

Corn snow is a different story. It's easy on any skis. My words up there apply to dense snow that sticks to itself, not fresh corn which falls apart.

There are more accidents on spring snow than on hard winter snow.

This is exactly where I think I’m having issues. I am a heavier girl, 180+lbs so I have mass- hence the higher flex on my skis/boots. The problem is I sink and have noticed with my last run in mashed potatoes I was just falling over like Bambi on green runs that I have never once had an issue with. This was on a run fully exposed, no tree cover, and mid-day around 1-2PM so I was definitely asking for it in retrospect. I think I’ll definitely get my Kenja’a spring waxed and stick to the shade/trees.

 

[Iwannaski]

This is exactly where I think I’m having issues. I am a heavier girl, 180+lbs so I have mass- hence the higher flex on my skis/boots. The problem is I sink and have noticed with my last run in mashed potatoes I was just falling over like Bambi on green runs that I have never once had an issue with. This was on a run fully exposed, no tree cover, and mid-day around 1-2PM so I was definitely asking for it in retrospect. I think I’ll definitely get my Kenja’a spring waxed and stick to the shade/trees.

I’m on the ”denser” side... I think part of the problem I have is that an instructor pointed out that I tend to try to use my strength to do turns... and that throws me into the backseat. It seems from the tips here that strength isn’t gonna do anything against the slush (water in all its forms is one of the most powerful forces on the Earth) ...

Do you normally power through your turns? I noticed on the warmer surface that definitely threw me into the backseat (and this was with freshly waxed skis - warm temp wax). Funnily, if I pushed my shins into my boots, I really could feel the difference. But again, going downhill, it’s easy to back up if you’re shaky AT ALL.

 

[ThatJessGirl]

I’m on the ”denser” side... I think part of the problem I have is that an instructor pointed out that I tend to try to use my strength to do turns... and that throws me into the backseat. It seems from the tips here that strength isn’t gonna do anything against the slush (water in all its forms is one of the most powerful forces on the Earth) ...

Do you normally power through your turns? I noticed on the warmer surface that definitely threw me into the backseat (and this was with freshly waxed skis - warm temp wax). Funnily, if I pushed my shins into my boots, I really could feel the difference. But again, going downhill, it’s easy to back up if you’re shaky AT ALL.

I tend to power as well. I’ll definitely have to mentally check myself about my shins always being at the front of the boot. I know it’s a bad habit of mine that I don’t fully engage if I’m feeling even slightly unsure of the conditions or new terrain which automatically sets me at a disadvantage.

 

[Iwannaski]

And PS: welcome.

I’m taking my kids skiing this weekend and plan to spend about half of my first day just in the chill green area (if I can) working on all of the muscle memory pieces. I feel like the GOOD thing about the challenging surface is that it will help me tune my technique more. Last lesson, the instructor said I know everything I need to know, I just need to make it a stronger habit before taking another lesson.

So, green practice to blue practice all weekend, I guess.

 

[scandium]

Spring wax! I literally had my skis stop under me in mashed potato conditions on a fairly gentle slope and nearly throw me over the front. I skied a LOT of slush that trip and this was next level sticky weirdness after some fresh snow earlier in the afternoon. I had all-temp wax on, and I suspect that really wasn't helping me slide either.

 

[liquidfeet]

In the spring there will be sticky snow (different from mashed potatoes). On low pitches, its stickiness will jerk the skier to a stop intermittently. This is dangerous. Steeper pitches help because when the skier is going faster with higher forces, the stickiness might not be strong enough to have an effect. Might not be strong enough.

Getting back to the lodge becomes a problem when it's warmer down there and the pitch is gone. Sticky snow is a demon. A different wax might help, but then again it might not. I've tried all kinds, and read of others' experiments with wax. The results are inconsistent.

Having the skis given a special stone grind with a spring-specific structure, which will need to be re-done next winter for cold snow, is usually helpful. But it's expensive, and by some people it's considered overkill. If you have an extra pair of unused skis lying around, you could try this on them.

When the snow is sticky enough to stop you on flatter pitches, stop skiing it. Save your knees for another day of skiing.