Question: Is the uphill skier always at fault in a collision?

[QCskier]

I was with a skiing Meetup group at Jay Peak yesterday and two of the participants (both snowboarders) in the collided with each other. Fortunately no one was hurt but they were both pretty miffed and seemed to point the finger at the other person. Out of curiosity I'm wondering who is at fault in the situation.

The collision happened when Snowboarder #1 was trying to pass Snowboarder #2. There wasn't enough space between himself and her and they both wound up in each other's blind spots so their boards clipped and both went down. Snowboarder #1 is saying that Snowboarder #2 wasn't in control and clipped him but I have always been taught that the uphill skier (or snowboarder) has the obligation to safely pass the slower person so am I right in saying that Snowboarder #1 was at fault for the accident?

 

[diymom]

I would say that snowboarder #1 is at fault. First off, downhill has the right of way in my understanding. Second, if boarder #2 was out of control, that much more reason to be careful and wait for a safe time to pass.

 

[Cyprissa]

I would say uphill boarder is at fault here. You don’t pass unless it is safe to do so. The only time I give the uphill skier a pass is when someone launches from the side after being stopped since I have seen people do it without looking uphill, causing another skier to stop short.

 

[Christy]

To me, there's no question. Look at the first 2 points on the responsibility code. It's worth noting that this isn't just a suggestion--in some places this is the basis for state law.

Seven Points to Your Responsibility Code

1. Always stay in control, and be able to stop or avoid other people or objects.
2. People ahead of you have the right of way. It is your responsibility to avoid them.
3. You must not stop where you obstruct a trail, or are not visible from above.
4. Whenever starting downhill or merging into a trail, look uphill and yield to others.
5. Always use devices to help prevent runaway equipment.
6. Observe all posted signs and warnings. Keep off closed trails and out of closed areas.
7. Prior to using any lift, you must have the knowledge and ability to load, ride and unload safely.

***
Boarder 2, trying to claim #1 was out of control, is like a driver who was tailgating claiming a rear end collision isn't his fault because the driver in front of him stopped suddenly.

 

[Audski]

I would agree that #1 was at fault. I think trying to fly past someone is very risky. Blaming #2 for being out of control is silly, especially if #1 had the vision to avoid the other rider. People do this same crap when driving.

 

[rhymeandreason]

I agree with everyone - snowboarder #1 was at fault. I’m not sure how snowboarder #1 could say that snowboarder #2 was in his blind spot. If he was trying to overtake her, he should have kept her in his field of vision until safely past. Also if there wasn’t enough room between them, he should have waited. Did you witness the collision? Maybe he was the one out of control because he couldn’t slow down to wait to pass at a safer spot.

Downhill skiers are at fault when they set off without looking uphill or when they pass people only to immediately cut them off, but it doesn’t sound like either of these applied.

 

[QCskier]

Yes I did witness the collision and it did look like #1 didn't create enough space between him and #2. The run was a little crowded at that point and there wasn't much space between skiers which made passing difficult.

 

[rhymeandreason]

Yes I did witness the collision and it did look like #1 didn't create enough space between him and #2. The run was a little crowded at that point and there wasn't much space between skiers which made passing difficult.

@QCskier, in that case, I would definitely consider snowboarder #1 at fault. I hope someone told snowboarder #2 she wasn’t at fault. If I were her, I know I would feel a nagging doubt that perhaps I was at fault, even if I was the downhill party.

When I overtake others, I always leave twice the safety margin I think I need. If I am overtaking children, it’s almost comical how wide a berth I give! But I ski mostly in Utah, where slopes are very wide and even the cat tracks are wide enough to pass comfortably. Skiing in tight quarters demands more agility and courtesy than many are capable of.

 

[mustski]

There are times when neither is at fault. The downhill skier makes a suddenly unpredictable move and changes line, switching direction. It is their right to do so, however the uphill skier made a decision to pass based on the predictability of the line the downhill skier had been following. Sometime, the snow is just too fast for the collision to be avoidable.

 

[liquidfeet]

The one doing the passing is at fault. If the slower boarder were a five year old who did something unexpected, and appeared to be "out of control," would the passing one still claim it was the kid's fault? Hopefully not.

The overtaking person who wants to pass needs to wait until there's enough room to do so safely, no matter what the skier/rider ahead does, even if it's unpredictable. That's the way the rules have to work, as we don't have rear view mirrors, nor lanes. There are no tests we have to pass to make sure we can stay consistently in an imaginary lane before we can ski a trail. We don't have to get a license to drive our skis or snowboards. The skiers' and riders' code is supposed to take care of this. Mountains used to post the rules on chairlift towers, one rule per tower. The mountains no longer do this.

So unfortunately people don't know the skier's code any more.

 

[Cyprissa]

@liquidfeet the analogy of the 5 year old is so spot on. I ski with a 5 and 7 year old and especially with the 5 year old, I am his shadow, following his line so that other skiers give him a very wide berth and that I am between him and them. The 7 year old is now ducking of the main trail to hit the bumps, jumps and powder on the sides so skiing with him is less terrifying.

 

[nopoleskier]

totally agree #1 is at fault, they are the one that should have taken the evasive action and NOT hit #2.

@liquidfeet totally agree, skier's code seems to be forgotten.. I too remember it was posted on Lift towers. Out west some ski areas have it printed on the napkins, in the bathrooms and all over. East we seem to have put the posters in a closet.. I bring it up at our instructor clinics and our daily meet ups to remind all instructors to recite it often to every student!

I do Speak loudly when passing someone especially beginners or little kids.. Sometimes have to say "the other left" but it is the uphill skier/boarders responsibility to pass safely regardless of the snow speed... slowing down is mandatory in many situations. I usually ski a groomer width making lots of turns on the edge of the trail and I am shocked how many 'thread the needle' and go by me next to the woods without ever a 'on your left' I look just about every turn I make.
if you ski with me you may hear me say "put your Owl Head on" -- look uphill especially busy days..

 

[QCskier]

Come to think of it I have never seen the skier's code posted anywhere on a ski hill out here in Québec. I took lessons when I was starting out so I learned about ski etiquette and safety from my instructor but anyone who is self-taught would be less likely to know these things. I have nearly been clipped a couple of times this season by skiers who weren't getting enough distance between them and myself when passing.

 

[SkiBam]

I mentioned to someone recently that the uphill skier is responsible for not hitting the downhill skier and they were totally surprised by this. If more people drove like they ski there would be carnage on the roads!

 

[rhymeandreason]

@SkiBam, that is appalling! At Park City, the code is on all the napkins and is also posted in the bathroom. It’s also drilled at ski school and is one of the criteria for moving up from the magic carpet. Not everyone models it, but at least there are no excuses.

The skier code isn’t perfect - it won’t prevent every collision. As in driving, some ski collisions are inevitable, like when two people go around the same tree at the same time, or if there is a chain reaction of falls behind you that cancels out any amount of buffer you have placed between you and the downhill skier. I interpret the code as the uphill skier is in the most responsible and capable position to prevent collisions, not that the uphill skier can absolutely prevent every accident.

 

[ski diva]

If I'm anywhere near a boarder (or a skier, for that matter) and it looks like I'm going to pass and I don't think they can see me, I always say on your left or on your right. I've always thought I was being helpful. Then my cousin, who's pretty much a beginning skier, told me he hates this; he says he finds it very aggressive. He thinks people are telling him he's going too slowly and he's in their way. What do you think about that?

 

[santacruz skier]

If I'm anywhere near a boarder (or a skier, for that matter) and it looks like I'm going to pass and I don't think they can see me, I always say on your left or on your right. I've always thought I was being helpful. Then my cousin, who's pretty much a beginning skier, told me he hates this; he says he finds it very aggressive. He thinks people are telling him he's going too slowly and he's in their way. What do you think about that?

He is not used to cycling. That's pretty standard courtesy (as you know) when passing.
I can see where a new skier might be intimidated by a good skier cruising at speed yelling on your right, on your left..... I do the same thing as a courtesy to let the skier/boarder in front of me aware of my presence. But I do see where your cousin is coming from.

 

[ski diva]

He is not used to cycling. That's pretty standard courtesy (as you know) when passing.
I can see where a new skier might be intimidated by a good skier cruising at speed yelling on your right, on your left..... I do the same thing as a courtesy to let the skier/boarder in front of me aware of my presence. But I do see where your cousin is coming from.

Actually, he's an avid cyclist; bikes to work every single day. So I don't think it's that. But you may be right; it could be the latter.

 

[rhymeandreason]

If I'm anywhere near a boarder (or a skier, for that matter) and it looks like I'm going to pass and I don't think they can see me, I always say on your left or on your right. I've always thought I was being helpful. Then my cousin, who's pretty much a beginning skier, told me he hates this; he says he finds it very aggressive. He thinks people are telling him he's going too slowly and he's in their way. What do you think about that?

I really like hearing on your left or on your right. I also appreciate it when cyclists and runners say it when passing slower runners and walkers. I notice that people who are not immediately certain of their right and left, do not like it.

I sympathize with your cousin, when I was a beginner, so many things unnerved me. As your cousin advances and start to pass slower skiers, I bet he will change his mind.

 

[Powgirl]

If I'm anywhere near a boarder (or a skier, for that matter) and it looks like I'm going to pass and I don't think they can see me, I always say on your left or on your right. I've always thought I was being helpful. Then my cousin, who's pretty much a beginning skier, told me he hates this; he says he finds it very aggressive. He thinks people are telling him he's going too slowly and he's in their way. What do you think about that?

It often startles me!!