How do you define "fresh powder"?

[geargrrl]

If we took a poll, my guess is that eastern Divas would say that powder skills are more important, and western Divas would say ice skills. We always want to learn what we don't have.

Huh. I have no real interest in improving my ice skills, as long as I can get down an icy run. We get "some" ice, mainly when we haven't seen new snow in a long time. My vote, as a western skier, would be for improving powder and crud skills. We get a lot of crud, and whe the powder days hit, I want to be ready for it.

 

[altagirl]

Huh. I have no real,I treat in improving my ice skills, as long as I can get down an icy run. We get "some" ice, mainly when we haven't seen new snow in a long time. My vote, as a western skier, would be for improving powder and crud skills. We get a lot of crud, and whe the powder days hit, I want to be ready for it.

I'm with you there. I only have any interest in maintaining enough ice "survival" skills to get off the ice safely in the event I run into it. If the reports are looking like it will actually be icy, I stay home.

Back in the day, when I was skiing in Michigan and when I lived in Europe I kind of prided myself on being able to ski ice well, so I actually worked on it. Now I only work on getting OFF the ice, so I really have virtually no interest in working on it. It's kind of like when I asked my favorite instructor how he handles skiing on total white-out days when there is fog covering up big bumps. Answer? "I go home". I've adopted this policy... Yeah, you don't get the bragging rights of "I ski in all conditions no matter what!", but as it turns out, they don't really give out awards for that. ;)

If you're talking about learning to ski the conditions you face on a regular basis, well, then I guess you need to learn to handle it. But if it's your oddball conditions that you don't like? Just skip it. For example - do I work on skiing thick breakable crust? Nope. I work on identifying it and not going near it.... pretty much the same deal for me with true ice.

 

[bounceswoosh]

For example - do I work on skiing thick breakable crust? Nope. I work on identifying it and not going near it.... pretty much the same deal for me with true ice.

I should work on identifying it. But once I'm in it, well, I need to get out (down). DH's approach, as a Clydesdale, is to just break through and ski underneath it the whole while, like an icebreaker in the ocean. It works surprisingly well for him. That is definitely an approach that requires pure belief in your skiing - if you're tentative, it doesn't work (as I've found over and over again).

 

[geargrrl]

I should work on identifying it. But once I'm in it, well, I need to get out (down). DH's approach, as a Clydesdale, is to just break through and ski underneath it the whole while, like an icebreaker in the ocean. It works surprisingly well for him. That is definitely an approach that requires pure belief in your skiing - if you're tentative, it doesn't work (as I've found over and over again).

Great imagery. Too bad we little people can only dream of skiing breakable crust like that.

 

[gardenmary]

It's kind of like when I asked my favorite instructor how he handles skiing on total white-out days when there is fog covering up big bumps. Answer? "I go home". I've adopted this policy... Yeah, you don't get the bragging rights of "I ski in all conditions no matter what!", but as it turns out, they don't really give out awards for that. ;)

This is where I'm at after Saturday. Being able to adapt to changing conditions is, I think, an essential skill; not only in skiing but in all outdoor activities. But that doesn't mean I have to risk life and limb to ski in conditions I REALLY don't like; as you said, no prizes at the bottom.

My coach has the same outlook as yours. He's taught me to look at the big picture, even in the compressed days of a vacation. If conditions are lousy, go do something else. Had I not taken his advice, I'd never have found the beautiful monastery in Huntsville.

bounceswoosh - "as a Clydesdale", lol. Reminds me of a column I once saw in Cross Country Skier magazine, written by a big guy, who said "we need a Viking division in Nordic racing! Those tracks are too close together!"

 

[dloveski]

Spent the last 2 days in the local mountains. Skied during the storm that brought 18 inches of snow on Friday, and skied in its aftermath yesterday.

Is there an official definition for "fresh powder"? On Friday I was skiing in freshly fallen snow that was largely untracked and certainly not packed, groomed, etc. Visibility was tricky but I could see enough to use what I learned last week in about 12-16 inches of untracked. I finally got to feel that floaty thing!

Yesterday, however, we were skiing in the 18 inches which had been compacted, pushed around, etc. but not groomed. I've always heard that referred to as "crud" but the local resorts were calling it "fresh powder". Whereas I'm thinking of "fresh powder" as what I experienced Friday.

My thought from yesterday was that since by the time the grooming crew would have started work, all the "fresh powder" was now pushed-around snow, they should have groomed more than 2 runs. It was as if the entire mountain was nothing but crud, and fast approaching moguls. What about where you all ski - how is it defined there?

I don't know how it was up north in Snowbasin-land, but in BCC we were looking at mostly "packed powder" conditions by Sunday. The snow was amazingly light--the champagne powder we Utahns expect (and don't get enough of these days)---but lots of traffic tracks it out in-bounds. Though it was "pushed around", it was light and very forgiving to get through. I was on my S7's, so maybe you need some fatter skis, as my carvers would not have been as much fun in those conditions.

BTW: we beaconed up and did b/c traversing to our reliable stashes---and Sunday ended up being my best powder day of the Year!!! Yeah! Amazing. Fresh tracks if you were willing to 'earn the turns!. Needless to say, I'm beat today.

 

[gardenmary]

I don't know how it was up north in Snowbasin-land, but in BCC we were looking at mostly "packed powder" conditions by Sunday. The snow was amazingly light--the champagne powder we Utahns expect (and don't get enough of these days)---but lots of traffic tracks it out in-bounds. Though it was "pushed around", it was light and very forgiving to get through. I was on my S7's, so maybe you need some fatter skis, as my carvers would not have been as much fun in those conditions.

BTW: we beaconed up and did b/c traversing to our reliable stashes---and Sunday ended up being my best powder day of the Year!!! Yeah! Amazing. Fresh tracks if you were willing to 'earn the turns!. Needless to say, I'm beat today.

I was in SoCal. I was at Snowbasin last weekend and had that packed champagne powder; hence my ebullient trip report, lol. The alleged "fresh powder" in SoCal on Saturday was heavy and pushed around. But it's all part of the journey; you'll never know if you don't try. And I was beat Saturday night too!

I will definitely be demo-ing in March, while keeping in mind my coach's admonition that if the skills aren't there the skis don't matter.

 

[altagirl]

Great imagery. Too bad we little people can only dream of skiing breakable crust like that.

Though on the bright side, GG, you've probably got a chance at staying on top and not breaking it in the first place sometimes. I think I'm at that in between size - enough weight to break through I'm not the freight train that DH is getting through it. It's one of those things where I think it really depends on the consistency of the crust - if you can bust through it enough, then yes, you just need to be extra aggressive and do everything like you really mean it. If it's too much? I'm just traversing out of there and not even trying to make turns. The worst is when you think you can stay on top but suddenly it collapses on you. EEEKKK!

And other than that - if you can see other people skiing it, you can always take cues from what the snow is doing as they ski through it (noise, spray, etc.) If not, you can smack your pole into it to see what it's feeling like. And hopefully if you find it not to your liking, you can traverse out to somewhere else either in the trees, at a different aspect so it got less sun exposure, etc. Same with powder really - it's so often accompanied by wind that sometimes it's nice and fluffy in one area but wind affected in others.

 

[bounceswoosh]

Great imagery. Too bad we little people can only dream of skiing breakable crust like that.

He actually enjoys the stuff! Has no trouble with it at all. I suspect I weigh enough to do the same, but I don't have nearly the confidence. His height may also convey some sort of leverage benefit.

bounceswoosh - "as a Clydesdale", lol. Reminds me of a column I once saw in Cross Country Skier magazine, written by a big guy, who said "we need a Viking division in Nordic racing! Those tracks are too close together!"

Hah! "Clydesdale" is a common term in mountain biking circles for riders over 200 pounds, who have, well, special needs.

 

[geargrrl]

Though on the bright side, GG, you've probably got a chance at staying on top and not breaking it in the first place sometimes. I think I'm at that in between size - enough weight to break through I'm not the freight train that DH is getting through it. It's one of those things where I think it really depends on the consistency of the crust - if you can bust through it enough, then yes, you just need to be extra aggressive and do everything like you really mean it. If it's too much? I'm just traversing out of there and not even trying to make turns. The worst is when you think you can stay on top but suddenly it collapses on you. EEEKKK!

And other than that - if you can see other people skiing it, you can always take cues from what the snow is doing as they ski through it (noise, spray, etc.) If not, you can smack your pole into it to see what it's feeling like. And hopefully if you find it not to your liking, you can traverse out to somewhere else either in the trees, at a different aspect so it got less sun exposure, etc. Same with powder really - it's so often accompanied by wind that sometimes it's nice and fluffy in one area but wind affected in others.

I just send my husband in first and wait for his report.

 

[snow addict]

Huh. I have no real interest in improving my ice skills, as long as I can get down an icy run. We get "some" ice, mainly when we haven't seen new snow in a long time. My vote, as a western skier, would be for improving powder and crud skills. We get a lot of crud, and whe the powder days hit, I want to be ready for it.

Also, to ski ice you don't really need lot of skills, so I don't think it's something you can improve once you learn. Ice is the most predictable surface so there is not many tricks to learn either and lot of issues that less experienced skiers have with it are mostly mental in nature - I used to get really scared just hearing this specific sound the skis make on ice even that the only ice I'd ever fallen on was that on ice rink when I was an ice-skater. You just stay in balance and ski *slide* on it and it's the same all the time. When we get many icy days I just get used to skiing it but I don't feel any improvements any more.

 

[altagirl]

I just send my husband in first and wait for his report.

Hahaha, I do that quite often too!

 

[Inoffensive Nickname]

When you ski where I usually do, a few inches of new snow can be powder, but honestly, if it's tracked up I no longer consider it fresh, no matter how much there is. It's rare here to have real powder, but we get excited with whatever mother nature brings in the form of snow.
Since I have been blessed to ski honest to goodness fresh powder a only few times, I at least know that wonderful joy.
Honestly, my favorite conditions are packed with a dusting of snow. Maybe that's because I've not been on powder enough to totally appreciate it. What the heck, I love snow, period, as long as I get to play in it!

^^^ This. As for skiing ice (as posted by someone else), I disagree that it doesn't take any skills. I have skiied Midwestern crud since I started, and with nothing but manufactured snow for the past two years, melted, frozen, melted, rained on, refrozen, covered with more manufactured snow, melted, refrozen...you get the picture, the base is pretty much a foot of solid ice chopped and groomed, with maybe a bit of powder mixed in and stopping/turning takes either a lot of muscle or absolute finesse. Perhaps it's my crappy skis, but I disagree that it doesn't take skill to ski on ice.

When I hit true hard pack in Colorado - real snow, which was chopped up powder as defined in this thread, it was a dream. It was like I didn't have to exert any energy at all to stop and turn.

But, I take what I can get...

 

[snow addict]

^^^ This. As for skiing ice (as posted by someone else), I disagree that it doesn't take any skills. I have skiied Midwestern crud since I started, and with nothing but manufactured snow for the past two years, melted, frozen, melted, rained on, refrozen, covered with more manufactured snow, melted, refrozen...you get the picture, the base is pretty much a foot of solid ice chopped and groomed, with maybe a bit of powder mixed in and stopping/turning takes either a lot of muscle or absolute finesse. Perhaps it's my crappy skis, but I disagree that it doesn't take skill to ski on ice.

When I hit true hard pack in Colorado - real snow, which was chopped up powder as defined in this thread, it was a dream. It was like I didn't have to exert any energy at all to stop and turn.

But, I take what I can get...

It does take certain skill, but it's not a skill that is very difficult to acquire and it's not like powder or moguls skiing which you can go on perfecting more and more and take multiple lessons for it. Ice is always the same. And you ski it exactly the same way as you did when you first figured it out. Usually the first stumbling block that we hit as intermediate skiers and the first we overcome unless ice is a rare occurrence and is easily avoided.

 

[mustski]

The snow we SoCal Divas skied this weekend wasn't hardpack. That would have been great! It was day old, pushed around and piled, heavy chopped up Sierra Cement. It wasn't easy to turn and took a lot of muscle. I find it the hardest conditions to ski. Don't get me wrong .... I don't love ice either.

 

[geargrrl]

The snow we SoCal Divas skied this weekend wasn't hardpack. That would have been great! It was day old, pushed around and piled, heavy chopped up Sierra Cement. It wasn't easy to turn and took a lot of muscle. I find it the hardest conditions to ski. Don't get me wrong .... I don't love ice either.

Now that sounds like what we call crud.

 

[mustski]

Now that sounds like what we call crud.

Yeah... pretty much!

 

[Pequenita]

Though on the bright side, GG, you've probably got a chance at staying on top and not breaking it in the first place sometimes. I think I'm at that in between size - enough weight to break through I'm not the freight train that DH is getting through it. It's one of those things where I think it really depends on the consistency of the crust - if you can bust through it enough, then yes, you just need to be extra aggressive and do everything like you really mean it. If it's too much? I'm just traversing out of there and not even trying to make turns. The worst is when you think you can stay on top but suddenly it collapses on you. EEEKKK!

I usually do stay on top of breakable crust (and actually, as a kid, I would walk out on this stuff at home and see how far I could get without breaking through!) but yeah, when I suddenly break through, it's a bummer because I've been skiing with a lighter touch and now my tips are under and oh, crap, I've come to a dead halt. And tip over.

 

[MaineSkiLady]

Also, to ski ice you don't really need lot of skills, so I don't think it's something you can improve once you learn.

I *think* the majority of ski racers would really disagree with you on this....

 

[altagirl]

I *think* the majority of ski racers would really disagree with you on this....

Yeah - maybe ice sideslipping skills are one of those things where you don't have much to improve once you've got the basics down, but if you really want to carve on ice you've got to have the right skis, the right tune, and the right highly developed skills, which few people truly have. I used to work on that back in the day when I, you know, tuned my edges because I saw ice on a regular basis.

If you just want to sliiiiiide across it in a smooth, controlled skid until you are off the ice (which is definitely the easiest solution on fat skis with dull edges!) then yeah, that probably doesn't have a whole lot of room for improvement - it's basically just a balance drill.