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Head Games

Little Lightning

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Followup to my post.

The next day at Copper I skied Lily G, with the wind blowing in our faces, Union and Spaulding Bowls.

Yes, I was out of my comfort zone but the difference? I was with my ski instructor, she asked me well ahead of time if I'm comfortable with the terrain, she, and my group, were supportive and the terrain, except for Lily G was familiar.

I did feel shaky on those runs but experienced none of the "Yikes Zone" that I had gone through the day before!
 

Robyn

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Yes, I've had them. Although, usually I am so embarrassed because of the pressure of the coach title that everyone I ski with knows that I push through silently. Most recently, it was Spaulding Bowl with the Bears and Divas. I coach younger kids so I don't get to those areas much and I was freaked. But, I silently listened to Bears encouraging others in the group and internalized that and did it which felt great.

Also, I deal with it fairly regularly as a coach and the kids. They don't think they can do something and look at me with wide, doubtful eyes. I ask them if I would make them do anything I didn't KNOW they can do. Their answer is unfailingly "no". So, I tell them to ski. Every time we've made it down. I've done a few runs coaxing a child or two down in tears but they've made it. And, at the bottom, they are ALWAYS so very proud of themselves.
 

Marigee

Angel Diva
Ski Diva - at the time we were skiing that run I couldn't tell that you were frozen - I didn't know until after we had finished that you had a serious case of vertigo, etc. The whole time we skied together this week I thought you always looked great and in perfect control. Fear can happen to anyone at any given moment. It definitely was a scary run - steep, narrow and a little crusty and windblown. I think that having Climber.girl1 and Lola's son there definitely helped me to ski down (sort of a safety net.) I certainly didn't look pretty skiing it!

As for the getting talked into it thing - I know I wouldn't have attempted that run without "encouragement." Sometimes I need that kick in the pants to get out of my comfort zone. It can be hard though to resist going along with the pack, particularly if you are the only one resisting.
 

mollmeister

Angel Diva
Congratulations on doing it and not getting hurt. I am sure there was some element of a rush that felt good! :clap:

I have definitely had this happen. NO QUESTION! Although interestingly enough, it mostly seems to be a phase that has passed. My DH and I talk a lot about how there's stuff I ski now, without even a thought, that would have had me in that frozen, unable to move, mentally whimpering state 8-10 years ago. Then, anything could do it-- difficult conditions; poor light; heavy, pushed around snow-- and I was never sure why the fear would strike. Usually what snapped me out of it was my competitive, athletic nature. As soon as DH started sounding like a *preachy instructor,* I would put on the afterburners and beat him to the bottom of the hill. I don't know why, but I have a lot of trouble when DH starts coaching me, especially since he's on a snowboard. . . and I am more athletic than he! :rolleyes:

Recently, though, I have only had a handful of those moments, and they have been very fleeting. Generally they involve a combination of an unknown area/inability to see what's coming and something that smacks of the potential for injury, since I don't know what's around the bend/over the lip.

The recent two that come to mind are a steep chute entry with a rock on one side, rough conditions for the first few turns (i.e. pretty much looking like straightlining for the rock was going to be required before the first turn), and inability to scope beyond that. I didn't overthink or get frozen. I went with my gut and bailed. The second was a drop from a cornice onto chunky-death-cookie looking conditions. I wasn't sure what the landing was like (was it as hard and crusty as it looked?) and it worried me. . . but I had seen other people drop and was pretty sure I could manage, even if it wasn't gorgeous. So again, I didn't let myself stand there long enough to freeze-- I just, as I am fond of saying, strapped on the old ovaries and went for it. I was fine, after one dicey turn.

The worst *fear freeze* I have ever had was back when we were climbing. We usually only went with a very tight group, whom I knew to be very safe. This time we went out with some people I didn't know very well, and I got all worried about anchors and all that. And some questionable choices got made along the way.

Ultimately we got to a point where there were too many of us standing on a tiny ledge, and we had to rappel off. Standing there, squeezed in, feeling like I had nothing to hold onto and not enough room, I started to panic. The rappel was one with an immediate overhang, so you couldn't walk yourself down the face to get started. . . you just had to kind of drop over. By the time it was my turn, I was so skeeved out by the ledge that I couldn't do it. Could NOT physically move my body into position to go. Two people literally had to push/lower me over the edge. I still get embarrassed to this day, thinking about it. :redface: And I never went climbing again with people I didn't know well.
 

Gina23

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I really enjoyed your blog. This has happened to me multiple times. Reading your blog did two things for me 1) reminded me that you have to keep skiing after this happens and get back on a trail where you can build a bit of confidence back up and 2) i'm human, and this does happen to other people. But, congrats... a double black is something to put down in history! :clap:
 
C

CMCM

Guest
My big mindfreak was last year. I was doing a lesson, and the instructor led me to the top of a run which was frankly way above my ability....very steep, lots of bumps. I felt serious panic as I looked down that hill, but we had skied down to the start of it and I gulped and realized I couldn't get back up to travel to an easier run, and the only way out of this was to go down that hill. I had to seriously stand there for several minutes gathering my wits and my nerve to attempt it. I really didn't know if I had the skills yet to make even ONE turn without somehow wiping out. It took me several minutes of concentration to get myself geared up for this, but then I took off....slowly, make a turn and stop. Plan the next one....approach a bump and turn around it, stop. It was pretty slow going, but I got down that whole hill, I didn't fall, and although there was no way I was going to do that run again for awhile, I was really pleased that I'd challenged myself (well....not exactly by choice, mind you!) and had actually done it. I was successful even if my form wasn't exactly pretty.

I went down that run again this year.....it was MUCH much easier this year , although still pretty hard. I was pleased at how much I've improved this year, and how much better I handled that run. Still, I probably won't do it again until next year. But boy do I well remember my inner panic when I first contemplated going down that run! :yahoo:
 

pinto

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I've never had this happen to me, but I've been in situations where I think I could have. ie, I realized that if I thought too much about where I was and what would happen if I fell, that I would probably have panicked.

So I don't think about it.

Now, that's a very flip response, and of course tongue in cheek, but also true. I think you have all broken it down in different words. You have to narrow your focus to only what you have to do next. The overall picture is there, but it must go to the back of your head, like your peripheral vision. It's there, but you cannot look at it. You have to sense it (the danger, the consequences, whatever), but you are forbidden from turning your head to look at it.

So do the thing you have to do. One turn, one edge set, whatever it is. Stay in the traverse, don't look down the hill. Don't imagine anything. I think someone earlier described it as what's 8 ft in front of you.

It is a balance, because you do have to have the overall picture, before you go 8 ft, then another 8 ft, then another 8 ft, and then oops a cliff. But once you've taken stock of the situation, then just focus on what's before you.

Interestingly, the one time I did have the rising panic start was when I was with my then-9-y-o son and we were cliffed out at Whistler. Well, I guess that's pretty normal. HE was fine, of course, but I felt that loss of control over the situation and the fear of what-if that I am usually able to control.

He was calm and perfectly able to turn around and navigate the narrow icy chute out of there (140 cm skis are useful in such situations, no?). After that, I felt much better about his behavior in sketchy situations. You never know until you've been there, I guess. Daughter tends to get more panicky, though.

[I want to add this ... which piggybacks onto Mollmeister's post: I think the irony is that often, the more dangerous situations you are capable of putting yourself into, the less danger you will actually face. What I mean by this is that most of us eventually reach the point where we are too risk averse to do anything that truly scares us. Because it isn't a steep bump run anymore that is scary, it's a real, honest-to-goodness no-fall zone, or another situation in which the worst consequence could be grave.

Now, this isn't to say that some of us don't spend a lot of time in such places, and I spend even a little tiny bit, but it takes a pretty serious consequence to make me turn back these days. But I just don't put myself in those situations. I have no need for the risk anymore. I can get my kicks just fine otherwise. I also have two kids.

So -- I'm not minimizing anyone's fear of a less dire circumstance, don't get me wrong. Far from it. What I'm saying is that as we improve and gain experience, most of us will hit a ceiling to where our capabilities are actually higher than our fear level. (Does that make sense?)]
 
... and on Palivicchini @ A basn. :fear:

OMG!!! I used to tear down Palivicchini at unbelievable and out of control speed when I was in high school! AND WITH NO HELMET!!!! I absolutely LOVED that run!
:eek:
Now.....I haven't been back on that in years...but maybe I'll do that if there's snow still left when we go there in May!!! :eyebrows:
 

Quiver Queen

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
What happened? According to Mermer Blakesly I had 5 things against me, unfamiliar terrain, the view, the snow conditions, my nervousness about doing it, and the group synergy (very unsupportive).

The bottom line is that I didn't listen to my body, there was no time. Afterward, I felt tricked because I got off the chair expecting to do Powdercap and then at the last minute the others made a decision without giving me time to think it through.

Good thoughts, LL. These factors also played a role in Ski Diva's freeze and my "worst ski day ever" (another post). My conclusions were that I had to follow my head and enter terrain on my own terms. In Ski Diva's case the "group synergy" got her into the spot, but then she was all alone, not even able to see someone else ski the run let alone know anyone was supportive of her. I feel guilty about not skiing with her during that part of the day and not being there when she needed encouragement.:(
 

SuperMoe

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
thrill of the terror

My instructor and I were discussing this on one of the rides up this past weekend. I mentioned it would have been easier to learn when I was young. He said that he always tells his students that we would never have "the thrill of the terror" that younger kids never have.

Kind of true, because learning to ski at 42 has given me that extra spice and challenge in my life and is part of the reason why I'm drawn to learning to ski. It also brings out the golf language in me...LOL...which is especially rich and prolific. There's something to be said about having a big challenge in front of you...and finding out that you can do the run...and eventually enjoy doing it.

After saying that...I was eyeing some of the black runs now...guess that is next year's challenge. (WTF am I saying...how stupid can i be...GULP LOL - gotta love that feeling)
 

SkiNurse

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
OMG!!! I used to tear down Palivicchini at unbelievable and out of control speed when I was in high school! AND WITH NO HELMET!!!! I absolutely LOVED that run!
:eek:
Now.....I haven't been back on that in years...but maybe I'll do that if there's snow still left when we go there in May!!! :eyebrows:

Yeha, I haven't been to the Basin yet this season, but even though it gets me, I'm looking forward to a nice, soft Pali run!:ski2:
 

LilaBear

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I think we all know the feeling of being somewhere we don't want to be. My approach is to stop and shake out the fear.

I'll find it harder to ski because my legs are going rigid, and I know it's easier when I soften them up. So I stop on the hill, gather myself together and do the "okey kokey" I shake my legs loose one at a time and let go of the fear. If they tense up, I stop and do it again. I suppose it's a version of focus on the 8, but it's what works for me.
 

Kiragirl

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
keep saying to yourself, "I got through it"

I am surprised to hear the "freeze" stories from many Divas!! not ranking on anyone at all, I'm sure it's because I have not skiied stuff as tough as you have, steeps out west, bowls, etc.

I read something here and in another thread which I used over the weekend (as well as "link your turns"), "take small bites" or "small chunks" as you go down a tough hill; divide it into smaller sections. It really helped me.
 

MaineSkiLady

Angel Diva
I am surprised to hear the "freeze" stories from many Divas!!
Ask any instructor. The phenomenon spans all ages and both genders. Many ski schools have training in methods of dealing with this to new instructors.

Blakelee describes this beautifully in the book, both in a private lesson scenario and a group - the group situation had me practically biting my nails as to the outcome.
 

hoodgirl

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I don't really have anything to add but wanted to let those ladies who did add know how much reading about your experiences helps. I am a solid intermediate skiier who's only ever skiied a black by mistake (cried for 5 minutes off to the side of the run but I made it down:yahoo:) so I still encounter those head games and freakout moments often. With my go getter, fear nothing husband who started skiing as a young boy I always felt like it was just me. It makes me feel better to know it's not! Thanks ski divas! :love:
 

lucine

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I usually freeze up on a run I have NOT had trouble on before. Usually it is after lunch. This has happened so may times -right after lunch- I am seriously thinking of giving up lunch.
PS. I don't eat very much lunch as I noticed this a long time ago. My lunch is now 1/2 PBJ and a cutie tangerine, but maybe it is the rest, my muscles just think I have quit for the day.
 

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