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Fuzzy Formica

liquidfeet

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Think formica - white, shiny, impenetrable. Firmly adhere a thin layer of stiff white fuzz to it, imagine the whole thing cold and slippery, and you've got a common surface condition on groomed slopes around my neighborhood (New England).

Early in the morning, the fuzz is solid, and no matter how you point your skis it clatters as you pass over it. The ridges of corduroy barely register your presence. Later in the morning, as some of the fuzz is scraped off by aggressive skiers, the formica acquires a thin movable layer of loosened snow. You can now see your tracks where you've penetrated the loose layer. The loose stuff may collect into thin "puddles" along the trail. These puddles may even be visible if the sun is shining just right. The formica below stays solid.

By noon, that loosened fuzz has accumulated at the edges of the trail to make a narrow ribbon of slightly bumped up soft stuff. The middle has gotten downright shiny in spots. What remains is still fuzzy formica, only with less fuzz.

The racers powerfully charge down this stuff using their typical wide stance, aggressive angulation, and fully pressured skis. They are making medium radius turns and lots of noise. They fling up a bit of loose fuzz as they begin their turns, but every now and then one fully carves his (her) way down, loosening no snow in the process. I wish I could ski this stuff like a racer. I'm working on it, but it's a slow learning curve.

Once the ribbons of soft stuff appear at the edges of the trails, I ski that with short quick turns, preferring the danger of running into the trees to scraping my way down the shiny and semi-gloss stuff. Sometimes I think I may even be elegant as I do this, but usually I'm working hard and sweating. That's ok. I like the challenge, and savor the feeling of lightness-on-my-feet that comes with skiing a narrow corridor.

How do you ski fuzzy formica?
 

MaryLou

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Never heard of the term fuzzy formica.

To me it's "dust on crust" lol.

I know what you are talking about, intimately, I'm a lifelong New England skier. It's already the conditions at my home mountain (Sunday River). Got to ski it this weekend.

I am so bored with groomed trails and corduroy, I honestly will avoid mornings like you mention. Not worth the wear and tear on my joints, knees and tooth fillings for something I don't enjoy. It's still good exercise, but it's so jarring on your body. I'm at the preservation stage of my life lol.

So...I wait until the dust settles on the edge of trails and ski close to the edge. Usually by 10-11am it's better. I love bumps, and soft/fresh ones, so I enjoy dust on crust days. If you stay in the middle, it's tough.

But, when I am in the middle I can handle it fine, just don't enjoy it. The key, to me, is the right skis. I've demo'd and found the perfect ski for me - usually I demo on dust on crust days. A ski that chatters on crust, forget it. I don't have a quiver, ski one ski all the time - so even though I enjoy moguls best, I can't just buy a mogul ski b/c it wouldn't handle crust well. And I ski fast, so anything that does not grip me to the snow with 100% confidence I would never buy. My last 2 skis have been Volkls unsex (had 5-stars that I'll just use for Nastar now, now I have new AC30s). IMO - if you hesitate, or worry on crust, you will never achieve any goal you set for yourself. You will hold yourself back. Instead - I just head down it, use my muscles/skill and have never lost an edge on the stuff. I lost a ski this weekend b/c it got into deep 'dust', but that's not as dangerous. I feel so 'one' with my skis, it's like an extension of my leg - and I know I can rely on them.

If your ski chatters AT ALL on the crust/formica - find something else. You do not want that. Skis vary so much, and from person to person, you need to find the right ski for you. Maybe why my eyes glaze when I read stats - I have to try it, b/c these skis can mean the difference between life and death sometimes.
 
C

CMCM

Guest
Yikes, that sounds horrible. If I was faced with that kind of snow very much, I doubt if I'd be such an enthusiastic skier. Everyone jokes about our "Sierra cement" here in California, but it's not so bad by comparison!
 

MaryLou

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Yikes, that sounds horrible. If I was faced with that kind of snow very much, I doubt if I'd be such an enthusiastic skier. Everyone jokes about our "Sierra cement" here in California, but it's not so bad by comparison!

New England skiers are a tough breed lol. It's completely frustrating. Last year I probably got 1-2 ideal days, the rest was dust on crust. Not that there weren't many more ideal days, but they'd be either weekdays, days I'm with my lil squirt on green trails, I had commitments or I was sick. THE best day last year I was out 1st chair and HAD to leave at 11am to make it home for a Girl Scout event...I tell you...I wanted to scream. Then I rush home (3 hours) to my girl saying "I don't want to go" - you are GOING, I sacrificed like you wouldn't believe for you!
 

michpc

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
New England skiers are a tough breed lol. It's completely frustrating. Last year I probably got 1-2 ideal days, the rest was dust on crust. Not that there weren't many more ideal days, but they'd be either weekdays, days I'm with my lil squirt on green trails, I had commitments or I was sick. THE best day last year I was out 1st chair and HAD to leave at 11am to make it home for a Girl Scout event...I tell you...I wanted to scream. Then I rush home (3 hours) to my girl saying "I don't want to go" - you are GOING, I sacrificed like you wouldn't believe for you!

I had 2 days of ungroomed fresh stuff at Sugarbush and Mad River Glen last season that was awesome! But I think all the days I was out were on the warmer side and I called it a day before things got too slick, so I never had any terrible ice days, which is nice because my skis aren't great on it!
 

liquidfeet

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Yikes, that sounds horrible. If I was faced with that kind of snow very much, I doubt if I'd be such an enthusiastic skier. Everyone jokes about our "Sierra cement" here in California, but it's not so bad by comparison!

Fuzzy formica is quite common here. I know and ski with life-time skiers who prefer hard snow to any kind of soft snow. Soft snow requires flexing at the knees, body angluation at the hip, and doing that brings on the sweat and slows them down. If there's anything soft that gets cut up or bumpy, they call it a day and head for the bar.

Otherwise, these skiers love the speed of zooming down the usual starched and pressed trails. The earlier in the day, and the harder the snow, the better. Evidently the frozen texture on top of the formica is something they just know how to grip without expending too much effort.

I watch these folks -- they don't bend their knees much or get much hip angulation on this stuff. They do not look like racers. They stand tall, make big turns, go fast, and enjoy it. When I follow them and do what they do, it feels to me as if I'm just in a very fast controlled skid. When I ask them, they are no good at explaining how they do this. These people are intuitive skiers; they learned on straight skis and converted over to shaped skis some time back. They don't take lessons, or read ski forums. They ski often and ski faster than most people on the mountain. They are in my ski club.

They probably know how to do something I'm unaware of, and are not skidding. Thus this thread- I'm wondering if anyone here can explain this way of skiing. Maybe I can then figure out how to do what they do, while I'm also trying to figure out how to ski this stuff with a racer's technique. Or at least feel like I have company disliking this type of snow. Since this stuff is unavoidable, I've got to master it some way or another.
 

SkiNurse

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Yikes, that sounds horrible. If I was faced with that kind of snow very much, I doubt if I'd be such an enthusiastic skier. Everyone jokes about our "Sierra cement" here in California, but it's not so bad by comparison!
^^What she said!! I prefer my Colorado Champagne powder to anything else..and will take Sierra Cement (which we do get in the spring) over the hardpacked/Fuzzy formica or whatever you want to call it. :beer:
 

MaryLou

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Fuzzy formica is quite common here. I know and ski with life-time skiers who prefer hard snow to any kind of soft snow. Soft snow requires flexing at the knees, body angluation at the hip, and doing that brings on the sweat and slows them down. If there's anything soft that gets cut up or bumpy, they call it a day and head for the bar.

Otherwise, these skiers love the speed of zooming down the usual starched and pressed trails. The earlier in the day, and the harder the snow, the better. Evidently the frozen texture on top of the formica is something they just know how to grip without expending too much effort.

I watch these folks -- they don't bend their knees much or get much hip angulation on this stuff. They do not look like racers. They stand tall, make big turns, go fast, and enjoy it. When I follow them and do what they do, it feels to me as if I'm just in a very fast controlled skid. When I ask them, they are no good at explaining how they do this. These people are intuitive skiers; they learned on straight skis and converted over to shaped skis some time back. They don't take lessons, or read ski forums. They ski often and ski faster than most people on the mountain. They are in my ski club.

They probably know how to do something I'm unaware of, and are not skidding. Thus this thread- I'm wondering if anyone here can explain this way of skiing. Maybe I can then figure out how to do what they do, while I'm also trying to figure out how to ski this stuff with a racer's technique. Or at least feel like I have company disliking this type of snow. Since this stuff is unavoidable, I've got to master it some way or another.

I agree totally with the typical NE skier. When I do get with a group, I'm always the laggard because I stay to the stashes on the side. I just think it's boring to go up/down, up/down all day long as fast as one can. I also think most of these fast folks can't ski bumps or other stuff - or they hate it. I do not get it at all! My hubby was skiing this weekend, and hooked up with a group for a run...he had to leave b/c he just didn't want to head straight down - we are two peas in a pod lol (soulmates/skimates lol). It doesn't take much energy or strength to ski that way, I don't think. I get a work out in the bumps. And I get so much out of a run.

But I'm not a skidder. I'm definately a carver. I'm like you said though - started at 5yo and am only on my 2nd pair of shaped skis. Cannot explain to anyone how it ski, I just know how. But I started racing NASTAR last year, and it did make me change my technique. I was using the 95/5 downhill/uphill power ratio (or whatever you'd call it) and could not go faster down the course no matter what I did. Then my 8yo had a lesson last year, and the instructor told me what she was taught - he said it was "toe to toe". I'm picturing tip to tip lol...and he explained it to me. You basically roll your foot from side to side (or toe to toe) to carve both skiis at the same time. Wow...really?! I started trying it on my own, and voila...I started rocketing down my races - shaved 10 seconds off from begin to end of season. So those folks just skidding around, that were accustomed to sticks may not know what I learned (after skiing shaped for 5 years, didn't know it was an issue until I was being timed).

People tell me I have a racing style. My older brother raced in HS and I learned so much from him. I am big on using poles correctly - always return my hands and poles back to their start position and pole plant like a fiend - keeps me in control and balanced, or something....could be mental. But most of the folks flying down trails here have poles flying all diff't directions, it's my pet peeve lol - my DH is not a good pole planter, I keep nagging him, and he is getting better. I'm working on my 12yo - she's almost there with her poles.

Although...I do have these folks to thank - they push all that wonderful snow to the side so I have something soft to ski!
 

MaineSkiLady

Angel Diva
Oh boy, LF.
(By the way, we had a thread awhile ago on all the different names for snow, and I think this one came up - formica, not the fuzzy though, ha!)
Methinks you've got to get farther north! Don't even want to tell you what the conditions have been like at Sugarloaf the last 5 days.....actually, was better last weekend before Monday's "event" - but still pretty darn good - mostly due to its higher elevation.

Issue: lower elevations have had a lot of freeze/thaw cycles lately. It's either that solid base or no base, unfortunately. If it would just STAY cold, this wouldn't be as big of an issue. But once the base is saturated, groomers are on a tight schedule to let the water drain before they can chop it up for a few inches' depth. If done too soon......formica, for sure. And there are resorts that just have too much saturated base to just let it all drain, which isn't a rapid-fire process.

About the best we can hope for is a repeat of last December's stellar snowfalls. Overall, many resorts are doing better even than last season for trail count (Sugarloaf up to 293 open acres right now, most in the east). With a little bit of luck, maybe we'll get some serious natural stuff! Hang in there.

By the way, what you're describing is the legendary "rail turns," all on edge. Pretty, isn't it? Part of the secret is not hurrying the turn. Let the sidecut be your guide! :wink:
 

jwcomputergirl

Certified Ski Diva
Yikes, that sounds horrible. If I was faced with that kind of snow very much, I doubt if I'd be such an enthusiastic skier...

You know what? You ski with what you've got. I grew up skiing in Tahoe, lived in Jackson Hole for 6 years, and now I live in the Poconos - home of Pocono Powder aka Fuzzy Formica. One adapts. If all they had here were termite mounds I'd probably be skiing on them! :smile:
 

liquidfeet

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Oh boy, LF.
By the way, what you're describing is the legendary "rail turns," all on edge. Pretty, isn't it? Part of the secret is not hurrying the turn. Let the sidecut be your guide! :wink:

So tell me, how does one do "rail turns"? Just tip 'em and ski, with weight appropriately forward? Or is there more to it than that? I'm on stiff, damp, GS type skis, and not bending the darn things means I'm doing about 55 mph. No chance in h*** of stopping, should I need to.
 

liquidfeet

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Oh boy, LF.
But once the base is saturated, groomers are on a tight schedule to let the water drain before they can chop it up for a few inches' depth. If done too soon......formica, for sure. And there are resorts that just have too much saturated base to just let it all drain, which isn't a rapid-fire process.

Can you explain further about this draining? I really want to understand it, but am confused. I know the home-made needs to be dense at first, because if it's frozen solid it takes it longer to thaw, and that's what they want for a base. Or I think that's what I've been told. But I'm not sure about where the draining comes in. Is that what happens when non-crystallized precipitation pummels the base? It pokes holes in it and drains out the bottom?
 

MaineSkiLady

Angel Diva
Basically, since water is heavier than snow, gravity does it's "thing" to settle the water out. The longer rain-soaked man-made can be left to "dry out," the better. Unfortunately, this results in run closures and disgruntled skiers. So some runs have to get cleaned up before they are technically ready. This is how the whole "formica" thing gets started. The only real solution is....April!! (That's about as soon as it starts to soften, at least up here!)

As to the rail turns, I'm not so good at describing said technical feats in words, but just about every ski magazine (as well as a number of books) has great multi-photo spreads on the mechanics of said turns.
 

whitewater girl

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
fuzzy formica

dust on crust

pocono powder

wow...what great descriptions! and wow, can I relate! That's almost all I've ever skied on (probably why I think conditions this November have been so "epic"! :wink:)...for some reason my local hill (Greek Peak) tends to get "dust-moguls" in the middle of many runs, with shiny strips on either side bordered by narrow ribbons of slightly bumped up soft stuff next to the trees - I usually ski these central "moguls" (though sometimes I'll ski the ribbons-by-the-trees)...

...what I really dislike are the ice patches. Now I've had people argue with me that they really aren't ice, just packed snow - hmph, they're shiny & translucsent like the stuff you skate on & form where the sun beats down on certain runs turning then to soupy slush some days (this only seems to happen on green runs on this hill - maybe has to do with the low pitch?)...any suggestions on how to deal with spots like this? (other than to stay off the greens!)...usually I just keep my skis flat, bend my knees to better absorb any lumps/bumps, hold my breath & hope for the best :eek: (does a number on the wax job & edges, though :yield: )
 

MaryLou

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
fuzzy formica

dust on crust

pocono powder

wow...what great descriptions! and wow, can I relate! That's almost all I've ever skied on (probably why I think conditions this November have been so "epic"! :wink:)...
I just had to lol at that. Epic is a relative term lol. Those westerners with all their perfect powder...they don't know what they're missing :wink:

Since I am bored with cruisers and grooming and hard pack stuff, it can get very discouraging. I love love love the spring when all this stuff softens up, but last spring it was so chilly so late, that by the time it softened up, 3/4 of the mountain was closed and couldn't be reached...it was heartbreaking.

I'll quit my bellyaching - too early in the season, and I really have nothing to complain about. As long as I'm skiing, I can find a way to make it fun.
 

marta

Angel Diva
Aww, c'mon dontcha just love that ZZZZZ-ZZZZZ sound of skiing frozen corduroy? On boilerplate mornings, I spend my first run doing nothing but speed control drills. That stuff is fast. I chose K2 BL's for my hardpack skis and there's no chatter at all. Liquid feet maybe your GS skis are too stiff for shorter turns at a controlled speed?

As far as rail turns go, here's my 2¢ - good practice, good boots, sharp skis and more practice. Balanced stance - both fore/aft and side to side - make sure you "pinch that inch" on your side and reach to plant your pole further away than you think you need to. The harder you pinch and further you reach, the more your skis will go on edge. Got that tidbit from a great instructor at Loveland. That and heavier weighting on the downhill foot (as opposed to a more even split on uneven snow). Think about bike pedaling, alternating feet.
 

Kiragirl

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
if you're on really hard pack and need help getting your edges to hold, drop your outside shoulder a bit, it will drive your knees (and edges) into the slope
 

volklgirl

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Buy a set of "ice skates" (super short SL skis) and ski it with a grin on your face! We had a day last year where it had rained, and I mean POURED then froze. The entire hill was literally a skating rink. Even our race was cancelled. Everyone scratched their way to the bottom then went home, except those of use with SLs in the car. We zipped and ripped all over the place with nary another soul on the hill. Sweeet. :thumbsup:

I LOVE the vibration from frozen courduroy in the morning.....when you get to the bottom and the soles of your feet are numb from the bzzzzzzz. Yeah.:cool:
 

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