Feeling the Fear...

[Cyprissa]

So, we just got back from what will probably be our last ski trip this winter...it was starting to get pretty sloppy even on the Stubai Glacier. I was struggling a bit with the terrain and piles of heavy "powder" everywhere so I took a private lesson. It was GREAT and sorted out some things holding me back like keeping my hands further forward and working more on keeping my skis together and increasing my sideways lean on turns.

BUT, the biggest takeaway is that I'm just afraid to put my skis straight down the fall line when it is very steep. With the instructor I managed a hugely steep red piste covered in bumps but today, on my own, the fear factor set in again. Any tips for overcoming that? She said I would be a solidly advanced intermediate if I could just commit to the fall line. Why can't I even when I know I have the skills to keep myself from going off the rails?

 

[bounceswoosh]

I think you might have misinterpreted her words. Committing to the fall line is NOT the same as pointing your skis down the fall line and praying. Committing to the fall line is about body position and, yes, patiently allowing your skis to go *through* the downhill part on the way back across.

Does that fit in at all with what your instructor said?

 

[Cyprissa]

@bounceswoosh yes, I spend most of my energy fighting the downhill part of skiing when it is steep. When I am in the fall line, I somehow don't trust myself to be able to control my skis even though I can. I then just freak out and make a crazy, powering through turn to get myself back to perpendicular to the line instead of following through more naturally. Does that make sense?

 

[Jilly]

More guiding with a lesson. You're not quite ready to go on your own in those conditions. Or find a shallower slope to practice. on.

 

[Fluffy Kitty]

Here are the steps that you can take:

1) Look up videos or take a lesson focusing on short-radius turns. Here are my favorites:
https://player.vimeo.com/video/17548757

2) Practice these on long greens, then on groomed long blues. Ideal trails are the ones that are about 15-20º steep all the way down. [Edit: and find a trail that is wide. Narrower trails will make you panic more easily.]

3) Practices these on groomed reds whenever feasible. Stop if you start to speed up too much, and start over.

Once you feel confident with short-radius turns, you will feel more confident on steeps and moguls.

Here are some things to remember:

1) Turning in order to slow down makes you lose control. Do not aim to shed speed; aim to stay in control, instead. Staying in control keeps your speed in control. Keep your knees bent, upper body forward, and arms forward.

2) Speed is your friend. Speed helps you turn, and speed helps you float.

Staying close to the fall line will happen automatically once you feel confident staying in control at speed, and then...

3) When starting a run, aim downhill-ish, rather than sideways. If you have to make a sharp turn at the very beginning, you will find it hard to regain control. Make sure your first couple of turns are mellow rather than sharp.

Hope this helps!

 

[bounceswoosh]

@bounceswoosh yes, I spend most of my energy fighting the downhill part of skiing when it is steep. When I am in the fall line, I somehow don't trust myself to be able to control my skis even though I can. I then just freak out and make a crazy, powering through turn to get myself back to perpendicular to the line instead of following through more naturally. Does that make sense?

It makes perfect sense. Pretty much everyone gets to this point on a steep enough slope - it's just that as you get more comfortable, you can ski smoothly on steeper terrain.

 

[Cyprissa]

@Jilly the lesson was a huge confidence boost and not in the cheerleading sort of way either. She was able to see exactly what was throwing me off and give me some really good stuff to practice and I saw a big improvement right away. I will definitely do another when I have a chance. Even my husband commented that my short radius turns were finally laying down perfect S tracks for the first time.

@Fluffy Kitty thanks! Those videos are very helpful and your points make a ton of sense. Especially since I do have a bit of a fear factor with speed which holds me back for sure. I don't get as nervous with speed once I know the trail or when it is icy. For some reason, skiing hard pack is way easier for me than loose stuff. It must be the Vermont upbringing.

 

[elemmac]

@Jilly the lesson was a huge confidence boost and not in the cheerleading sort of way either. She was able to see exactly what was throwing me off and give me some really good stuff to practice and I saw a big improvement right away. I will definitely do another when I have a chance. Even my husband commented that my short radius turns were finally laying down perfect S tracks for the first time.

Sounds like it'd be worth requesting the same instructor again. Not gambling on if you're going to get a good instructor again makes the lesson a lot more worth your time and money.

 

[Fluffy Kitty]

For some reason, skiing hard pack is way easier for me than loose stuff.

Oh, that's absolutely true. You have a lot more control over your skis on harder stuff. On looser stuff, you are flying on faith and flying by wire on a surface that is unpredictable and uneven; it's harder to fling your skis around, too. It's also hard to "cheat" the technique on looser stuff. Paradoxically, you will have more control on looser stuff when you are going faster (at least 10-15 mph, 15-20 kmph), although you will be a lot more tired out and need more frequent breaks. At least it won't hurt as much when you fall, and looser stuff also naturally slows you down.

If there is a trail that gives you trouble on loose days, ski the hell out of it on groomed days; do a mix of going slowly and very fast. That will decrease that panicked feeling when you look down the hill and see the steepness and crud. (I tend to go slow on top of steeps and very fast on the bottom, and have been trying to move the threshold farther up hill.)

On loose days, when you start to make a turn and you feel like the bottom is falling out from under you, move your body forward and remind yourself to keep your feet planted in the boots. Panicking is natural in those situations, so don't worry about it; just ride through the feeling--I yell "panicking is natural!" to myself--and get ready for the next turn.

If you are waiting to try these until the next season, don't expect yourself to pick it right back up on the first day of the season. (That's my mistake every season!) Give yourself a few days to rebuild your ski legs.

 

[newboots]

@Fluffy Kitty I have a question. You said, "1) Turning in order to slow down makes you lose control."

Keeping in mind this is my first season, help me understand. I turn to slow down all the time. Is there another way to slow down? (I have shed the snowplow for all but emergencies.) When I feel really out of control, I have trouble making a great turn, but that isn't caused by the turn. It already felt that way.

I love how you tell yourself, "Panicking is natural!" I have given up on saying, "Oh sh*t Oh sh*t Oh sh*t" in these moments, and chanting, "You can do this, you can do this" instead. It started out as a quote from a friend, "You have the skills to do this," but that was too long for chanting in those situations.

 

[EAVL]

So, we just got back from what will probably be our last ski trip this winter...it was starting to get pretty sloppy even on the Stubai Glacier. I was struggling a bit with the terrain and piles of heavy "powder" everywhere so I took a private lesson. It was GREAT and sorted out some things holding me back like keeping my hands further forward and working more on keeping my skis together and increasing my sideways lean on turns.

BUT, the biggest takeaway is that I'm just afraid to put my skis straight down the fall line when it is very steep. With the instructor I managed a hugely steep red piste covered in bumps but today, on my own, the fear factor set in again. Any tips for overcoming that? She said I would be a solidly advanced intermediate if I could just commit to the fall line. Why can't I even when I know I have the skills to keep myself from going off the rails?

I have issues like this too and it is frustrating that it comes and goes! I did my first black runs last season with a friend coaching me down (and he was on a snowboard!) and was so excited I did it. I go back to blues I have done a million times and some days I freak out on the steep parts and others it seems effortless and I can't believe I was so scared the time before. Then I will go back and I'm freaking out again! My husband says he gets scared sometimes when he is going nuts on the backside but he never fears he will get hurt or die which is what I focus on! He was also the kid who had numerous concussions and broken bones growing up from all the adrenaline seeking things he did so maybe that helps? He has experienced it all already. I don't know!

 

[Fluffy Kitty]

@Fluffy Kitty I have a question. You said, "1) Turning in order to slow down makes you lose control."

Keeping in mind this is my first season, help me understand. I turn to slow down all the time. Is there another way to slow down?

The short answer is: the purpose of turning is to maintain speed, rather than to shed speed.

Ideally, you will be turning before you get to the point where you feel like you are going too fast; it is not the act of turning, but the average effective angle of your "slant" down the hill that determines your overall speed. Eventually, you hit a balance of speed and turn shape that keeps you down the hill at a fairly steady pace.

I will explain in more detail when I have more time, but perhaps I should defer to an instructor?

 

[Lmk92]

Great thread. Count me in as one who has no trouble on steeps one day, but gets petrified the next. There is no way to explain it. None that I have found, anyway.

 

[diymom]

I have given up on saying, "Oh sh*t Oh sh*t Oh sh*t" in these moments, and chanting, "You can do this, you can do this" instead.

My mantra this year, not sure where it came from, is "trust the skis". Doesn't make sense, since I am doing the skiing, not my skis, but it does seem to help keep me from overthinking things and letting my head get in the way.

 

[bounceswoosh]

My husband says he gets scared sometimes when he is going nuts on the backside but he never fears he will get hurt or die which is what I focus on!

Long before I hurt my knee, I had this response. Not "or die," but specifically, when I get to variable conditions, I think, "What if I twist my knee?"

I think actually blowing out my ACL has reduced that in a weird way - because it was such a violent fall. This isn't logically correct, but in my head it's like, "Well, falling here definitely won't be as bad as that was, so I'm okay."

 

[Hsinski]

This is my 4th season and I'm only starting to go down blues and easy blacks with confidence. My first three season was a combination of bad fitting boots, bad technique and overthinking that resulted to frequent cramps in legs and feet that puts me in a backseat sking position.

Getting the right fitting boot and a boot fitter that stacked me in a neutral stance helped a ton. I instantly felt a lot more confident going down steeper areas starting with my skis pointing downhill. But I always have to stop at the top, position myself, take a deep breath and go... I was never able to ski from top to bottom without stopping.

My light bulb moment came when I started to practice proper pole planting. I was convinced for a long time that I don't need my poles to learn how to ski properly. So I never paid any attention to my poles when I'm going down the mountain. They are just there to help me move forward on flats. It's complicated enough that I need to pay attention to what's going on with me feet, legs, body position, arms etc... I'll just deal with pole planting once I mastered proper skiing with my legs and feet.

Here's the thing though, once I started to practice pole planting... everything just clicked and felt natural. I am able to keep a good rhythm from top to bottom and skiing became less of an effort all of a sudden. I was able to ski down steeper parts without stopping and I was able to go faster without feeling like I'm out of control.

In retrospect, I now understand why proper pole planting helps beginners like me learn the proper form. I noticed that pole plant actually forces me to pull my body forward right before the next turn, forces me to 'reach downhill' into the proper position, and provides that micro adjustment for me to stay stacked and in control for the next turn. My husband said I skied like a different person because my movements suddenly became natural. Since I was focusing a lot on proper pole planting and timing, I wasn't over thinking my legs, feet, ankles, skis edge, skis together, body position etc... my turns are no longer forced.

On the groomed piste vs soft snow/powder conditions, I think you might want to check your skis as well. I used to have a beginner skinny on piste skis - they are chin level in length and pretty narrow (70mm). These skis are for beginners because they are easier to turn. I find myself feeling wobbly at certain speed and I struggle to turn in soft snow, crud or powdery runs on those beginner skis. This season I tried a pair of longer and wider all mountain skis (they are as tall as me and 90mm wide) and I instantly felt the difference in terms of stability and control. There are less 'oh sh*t, oh sh*t' moments when I go through some bumps or feel a block of ice beneath... they are more 'ooops... oh well' moments now.

Lastly, I fell a lot learning how to ski. As in almost every other turn... and I still do (especially when I accidentally ended up on a black mogul). What helped me overcome fear is that I got really good at falling down properly and get up. It takes some mental commitment to convince myself whenever I'm out of control to stop fighting the fall and just go down, stand up and reset. Since I'm comfortable with falling... I am able to push myself to try steeper terrain, bumps, jumping etc... I would tell myself: "Worst case, I fall". :-)

TL;DR: Good fitting boots helps with proper stance to start with. Pole planting helps with rhythm and staying stacked. Longer wider skis for crud and powder... Lastly, practice falling and standing up to build confidence.

 

[bounceswoosh]

Keeping in mind this is my first season, help me understand. I turn to slow down all the time. Is there another way to slow down? (I have shed the snowplow for all but emergencies.) When I feel really out of control, I have trouble making a great turn, but that isn't caused by the turn. It already felt that way.

Elaborating on what @Fluffy Kitty said (and I am also not an instructor), I suspect that if you think of turns as existing to slow you down, you will make hard braking moves with your turns. Ideally, you never have to do that because you have been skiing smoothly and at your preferred pace the whole time.

(In practice, I often find my efforts thwarted when someone skis too close to me, "forcing" me to ski in a straighter path, at which point I've accelerated past my intended speed. But now that I think about it, if I had greater presence of mind in those moments, I could possibly switch to short radius turns. Sometimes.)

In retrospect, I now understand why proper pole planting helps beginners like me learn the proper form. I noticed that pole plant actually forces me to pull my body forward right before the next turn, forces me to 'reach downhill' into the proper position, and provides that micro adjustment for me to stay stacked and in control for the next turn.

I would argue that pole plants are rarely if ever about the poles - they're about what they do for your body, as you say. I have very short poles, and on groomers, if I use my poles at all, I do phantom plants - they don't even touch the snow. But it still helps.

 

[Cyprissa]

@Hsinski thanks for your thoughts. I'm still tweaking my boot fit right now. I know I need some better foot beds and a slight bump out on my right foot which has a small bunion. I know that can make a big difference for sure.

I think a lot of my issues are in my head unfortunately. I know how to fall and unless I'm going top speed or worried about out of control skiers behind me (a real fear this weekend) than I'm not that worried about getting hurt in general. Steeps scare me because of the speed. In my younger days, before my long skiing break, I was never scared ever and was a very good skier but I haven't snapped back as easily as I would have hoped.

Also, I've been skiing some very nice skis, Stoeckli Axis Motion, Head Absolute Joy, Head Supershape iMagnum (too much ski for me) and K2 BeLuved so not issues with chatter or instability.

 

[Hsinski]

Elaborating on what @Fluffy Kitty said (and I am also not an instructor), I suspect that if you think of turns as existing to slow you down, you will make hard braking moves with your turns. Ideally, you never have to do that because you have been skiing smoothly and at your preferred pace the whole time.

(In practice, I often find my efforts thwarted when someone skis too close to me, "forcing" me to ski in a straighter path, at which point I've accelerated past my intended speed. But now that I think about it, if I had greater presence of mind in those moments, I could possibly switch to short radius turns. Sometimes.)



I would argue that pole plants are rarely if ever about the poles - they're about what they do for your body, as you say. I have very short poles, and on groomers, if I use my poles at all, I do phantom plants - they don't even touch the snow. But it still helps.

So true!

 

[Cyprissa]

@bounceswoosh this weekend was full of skiers who were unpredictable and skied very close. My instructor also almost got mowed down by a dude who looked like he should have known better but clearly didn't.