EDS and Skiing

[SquidWeaselYay]

I apologize in advance if this has been discussed or is too much of a niche issue and not really worth a post. I tried searching for posts around this topic and couldn't find much.

Can any skiers with Ehler-Danlos Syndrome give me some tips on reducing the hyper mobility in the ankles? I've been working with PTs for years, and although I've seen some improvements in things, like my lunge form, and being able to hold balance poses. But when it comes to skiing, it's like my right ankle just collapses no matter what.

I just went with some new boots (Lange ZJ), along with new footbeds and foam liners. I went to SureFoot in Killington, and the footbeds are actually better than my prescription orthotics for holding my ankles straight. But my ankle still rolls back and forth in my boot when I try to edge. Boots are a snug race fit, and the foam is firm. I feel like unless I encase my ankle in concrete it's always gonna wiggle.

I've started doing more training with a Bosu ball (and the little mini ones) to try to further build my stabilizers to make up for the joint laxity. Anyone have anything that they have found to help? I'm open to anything.

Again, I'm very sorry if this is not an appropriate post. If it is not, please delete. Thanks for your time.

 

[newboots]

Totally appropriate. I hope someone can help!

 

[contesstant]

I had a rheumatologist diagnose me with ehlers danlos several years ago, but insurance wouldn’t cover genetic testing to confirm. I have the same issues with my ankles being super mobile inside even the tightest of boots. Rossi ZJ, Intuition race liners. One thing that has helped me is 3mm toe lifts on the boots, particularly because I’m in such a small boot (22.5.)
I’ve kind of resigned to the fact that I’ll never reach the level of skiing I’d ever hoped to due to my hyper mobility combined with crazy low-volume feet. Sometimes, my skis just do crap that no matter how hard I try to be precise with my body and feet, it just doesn’t matter.
My tidbit of advice is to get the rest of your body strong to help compensate.

 

[SquidWeaselYay]

I had a rheumatologist diagnose me with ehlers danlos several years ago, but insurance wouldn’t cover genetic testing to confirm. I have the same issues with my ankles being super mobile inside even the tightest of boots. Rossi ZJ, Intuition race liners. One thing that has helped me is 3mm toe lifts on the boots, particularly because I’m in such a small boot (22.5.)
I’ve kind of resigned to the fact that I’ll never reach the level of skiing I’d ever hoped to due to my hyper mobility combined with crazy low-volume feet. Sometimes, my skis just do crap that no matter how hard I try to be precise with my body and feet, it just doesn’t matter.
My tidbit of advice is to get the rest of your body strong to help compensate.

Hello fellow zebra!

I think we might have the same feet - mine are also super low volume. I'm in a 23.5, which isn't too terribly small. Are toe lifts installed like lifter plates? My local shop isn't familiar with toe lifts and looked at me like I was nuts when I mentioned it.

 

[SquidWeaselYay]

I had a rheumatologist diagnose me with ehlers danlos several years ago, but insurance wouldn’t cover genetic testing to confirm. I have the same issues with my ankles being super mobile inside even the tightest of boots. Rossi ZJ, Intuition race liners. One thing that has helped me is 3mm toe lifts on the boots, particularly because I’m in such a small boot (22.5.)
I’ve kind of resigned to the fact that I’ll never reach the level of skiing I’d ever hoped to due to my hyper mobility combined with crazy low-volume feet. Sometimes, my skis just do crap that no matter how hard I try to be precise with my body and feet, it just doesn’t matter.
My tidbit of advice is to get the rest of your body strong to help compensate.

I was also diagnosed by a rheumatologist with hEDS. They want me to get genetic testing to rule out the vascular type, but meh. I don't feel like going to battle with Capital Blue for a rule out.

 

[Jilly]

There is another name for toe lifts, but I can't remember what it is. I'll ask SnowHot. I'm thinking accelerator peddle.....

 

[contesstant]

Hello fellow zebra!

I think we might have the same feet - mine are also super low volume. I'm in a 23.5, which isn't too terribly small. Are toe lifts installed like lifter plates? My local shop isn't familiar with toe lifts and looked at me like I was nuts when I mentioned it.

Did you have sole plates put on your boots? If not, you really should and I can’t fathom a boot fitter sending you out the door without doing so.

There is another name for toe lifts, but I can't remember what it is. I'll ask SnowHot. I'm thinking accelerator peddle.....

Gas pedal.

I’ll also add that wider skis I think are especially troublesome with hyper mobility. Once my skis get too much wider than my boots, I really struggle. So, anything wider than about 88.

 

[SquidWeaselYay]

Did you have sole plates put on your boots? If not, you really should and I can’t fathom a boot fitter sending you out the door without doing so.

Gas pedal.

I’ll also add that wider skis I think are especially troublesome with hyper mobility. Once my skis get too much wider than my boots, I really struggle. So, anything wider than about 88.

I have 5mm lifter plates on my boots, added after canting. Since it’s a race-style boot, couldn’t add grip walk or anything convenient like that. Sucks carrying cat tracks, but the improved fit of this boot is worth it.

Hmm, I have the toe piece of my Aaattack 12 binding shimmed up (gas pedaled) on my kenjas, but I haven’t needed it for my Santa Ana’s with the Squire bindings. But I think somebody told me that Squires have a bit of a negative delta? Maybe that is why? Anyway, Seems like gas pedaling the boot would be preferable to the bindings.

 

[SquidWeaselYay]

The sole plates on mine. Jeez, I need to be absolutely religious with the cat tracks it seems. They are already torn up from just two walks through the lot without them.

 

[contesstant]

I have 5mm lifter plates on my boots, added after canting. Since it’s a race-style boot, couldn’t add grip walk or anything convenient like that. Sucks carrying cat tracks, but the improved fit of this boot is worth it.

Hmm, I have the toe piece of my Aaattack 12 binding shimmed up (gas pedaled) on my kenjas, but I haven’t needed it for my Santa Ana’s with the Squire bindings. But I think somebody told me that Squires have a bit of a negative delta? Maybe that is why? Anyway, Seems like gas pedaling the boot would be preferable to the bindings.

Aattacks are higher in the heel than Squires, yes. I had to gas pedal my Aattack 13s after getting the ZJs, even with the boot gas pedaled.

 

[SquidWeaselYay]

Aattacks are higher in the heel than Squires, yes. I had to gas pedal my Aattack 13s after getting the ZJs, even with the boot gas pedaled.

Curious, have you ever tried any of the taping methods for Hypermobility in the ankles? I tried some years ago with KT tape but didn’t find it to be effective. Was wondering if you have tried it or had any success if you did.

 

[contesstant]

Curious, have you ever tried any of the taping methods for Hypermobility in the ankles? I tried some years ago with KT tape but didn’t find it to be effective. Was wondering if you have tried it or had any success if you did.

I have not. The only time I notice it is while skiing.

 

[SquidWeaselYay]

Aattacks are higher in the heel than Squires, yes. I had to gas pedal my Aattack 13s after getting the ZJs, even with the boot gas pedaled.

Hey there again. How much of a gas pedal did you do? I think I have 1mm on mine.

 

[contesstant]

Hey there again. How much of a gas pedal did you do? I think I have 1mm on mine.

More than 1mm. I want to say 3mm. Now that my boots are gas pedaled, I think I could adapt to most bindings OK. The Salomon Warden 11s I'm now on I believe have similar stats as the Aattack 12s.

Funny how having boots that are aligned to your stance fore/aft make a huge difference in being able to adapt to other things.

 

[blueskysunnyday]

Would someone mind explaining the gas pedal to me? For example, what is its purpose and what practical effect does it have while skiing? I guess I'm kind of a noob. Skied once in my 20's, finally "discovered" it in my late 30's and am now in my mid-40's and totally obsessed (but living in the wrong place for lots of skiing).

My son has Ehlers Danlos and I have been diagnosed with regular hypermobility, but have not done the genetic testing. I have custom-fitted boots, but seem to have slightly different foot issues -- I have a bony, high instep and high arch (so need a higher volume boot with punch outs), but as soon as I put any weight on it, my arch collapses because of the hypermobility.

I had kind of figured out by trial and error that a skinnier waist ski works better for me, but I was glad to see that confirmed by someone else above. Are there any other helpful hypermobility tips out there?

 

[Jilly]

@blueskysunnyday - you have a custom footbed that supports your arch? If not get one made. I'm more concerned about that, then the gas pedal.

 

[liquidfeet]

@blueskysunnyday I'll second @Jilly's question. If your arch collapses inside the boot, you need a custom-made footbed that stops that collapse. A master bootfitter in a brick and mortar ski shop can do that for you.

Since you have hypermobile feet, you'll need a real bootfitter with lots of experience and knowledge. There are different types of custom footbeds, and yours will need to meet your unique needs. Make an appointment at a shop that has a master bootfitter, take your ski socks and boots and wear pants that you can lift up above your knees.

If the pronation is happening up at the hip (yes, that can happen too), your boots may need undersole canting. If the boots are capable of supporting this canting, that master bootfitter can add wedges on the inside half of your boot soles, on the underside of the boot. Not all bootfitters do this, and not all boots are able to be canted. This is why you need the master bootfitter to take a look at you, and why he'll (assuming a guy, sorry) need to see what your knees are doing. Boot sole cants move the knee relative to the foot.

Where are you located? Someone here may be able to point you in the right direction for such a bootfitter.

Oh, the gas pedal is a wedge under the toe of the boot that lifts it up. It changes the angle of the bottom of the boot, fore-aft-wise, so the toes are higher than before. Its purpose is to help skiers stay out of the back seat. Your problem sounds like a lateral one, not a fore-aft one.

 

[blueskysunnyday]

I did have custom footbeds made by my local boot fitter, but I really can't say that I know much about his credentials. I am in Richmond, VA. I feel like they do a pretty good job of supporting my arch, but I did need to add a little metatarsal bump for my new neuroma. How would I know if pronation is happening at the hip? Thanks, everyone!

 

[liquidfeet]

as soon as I put any weight on it, my arch collapses because of the hypermobility.

I had kind of figured out by trial and error that a skinnier waist ski works better for me

I did have custom footbeds made by my local boot fitter, but I really can't say that I know much about his credentials. I am in Richmond, VA. I feel like they do a pretty good job of supporting my arch, but I did need to add a little metatarsal bump for my new neuroma. How would I know if pronation is happening at the hip? Thanks, everyone!

Before getting into that, how does your pronation mess up your skiing? What problems do you have with a wider waist ski that you are assigning to your pronation?

 

[SquidWeaselYay]

@liquidfeet I'm curious to see your input on the pronation conversation. My right ankle pronates even with a custom footbed. I think it might have a bit to do with the forefoot varus on that side that is difficult to capture when getting orthotics made. Even my podiatrist has trouble. My ankles/feet have all the stability of hot mozzarella. I've been in PT for a while now to work on strengthening stabilizer muscles and glutes. I noticed that it helps a bit, but when it comes to edging my right foot is still sluggish. I think it may be connected to the muscle imbalances in my glutes/hips though. I'm hoping that with consistency in my PT routine (after finally finding a PT who is also an athlete and gave me lots of functional exercises), I'll be much improved in a year.